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Visibility and camouflage system, how and why? (Updated: 2011.01.08)


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Cifu #21 Posted Nov 26 2010 - 12:56

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View Postflyhardur, on Nov 26 2010 - 12:34, said:

Added the initial Post to the Wiki: http://www.wotwiki.n...owSpottingWorks

Please correct all inacuracies.

Roger.

sivvon #22 Posted Dec 02 2010 - 11:59

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View PostCifu, on Nov 21 2010 - 20:54, said:

The JagdPanther and Panther showed up exactly the same distance. But the JagdPanther have much lower profile.

They almost have the same profile.

(height x width x length)
Jagdpanther 2.71 x 3.42 x 9.87
Panther:  2.99 x 3.27 x 6.87
T34  2.45 x 3.0 x 6.68
STG III 2.16 x 2.95 x 6.85


(all info from wiki.rg)

xecute #23 Posted Dec 02 2010 - 13:20

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I've got a weird bug/glitch lately which I think is somehow showing how the lines of sight perhaps works?! (see attached image).

        

^ BTW I am not hacking, it is a GFX problem I am having lately sometimes and dunno how to fix.
(usually only effects 1 tank per match and only at certain angles when highlighted)


P.S. I have more screenshots but they all follow same kinda thing. >> click here <<

Attached Files

  • Attached File   shot_029.jpg   595.5K


dunhil #24 Posted Dec 02 2010 - 17:23

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Thanks a lot, very useful for experienced or newcomer players !  :Smile_honoring:

Cifu #25 Posted Jan 07 2011 - 17:23

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I'm updated the opening post, please review the new content, and if you have any debate or question, then post it.  :Smile-izmena:

PuckChaser #26 Posted Jan 07 2011 - 17:39

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View Postxecute, on Dec 02 2010 - 13:20, said:

^ BTW I am not hacking, it is a GFX problem I am having lately sometimes and dunno how to fix.
(usually only effects 1 tank per match and only at certain angles when highlighted)

Your video card is artifacting and may need to be replaced. Common causes are overheating (graphics settings too high), or a dying video card.

Cifu #27 Posted Jan 09 2011 - 00:46

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I'm updated the OP. There is still some missing and questionable information exits, like what is the exact modifier of the bush cover.

amade #28 Posted Jan 09 2011 - 13:58

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Great update. Knowing stuff is half the battle won!

Quote

With very low value (like Su-14, Maus, JagdTiger, etc.) it's won't worth to take the camouflage skill and/or the camouflage net?

No, because the system are multiple the values, with very low value you simply can forgot both the camo skill and the camo net, it's simply won't provide noticeable effect.

Just to clarify, by low value you're referring to the tank's visibility value, right? In this case you're saying that tanks with very low visibility values (less than 0.15 maybe?) won't benefit much from having camo net or crew with camo skill?

AragornSkywalker #29 Posted Jan 10 2011 - 10:56

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At what range does the bush in front of you obstruct your vision as much as hide your tank?

ItsGonRain #30 Posted Jan 11 2011 - 05:21

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The scouts (like the Luchs, Leopard, A-20, etc.) get some kind of bonuses in visibility?

Yes, the scout tanks are won't get higher visibility penalty when moving, or precisely their movement visibility are the same as the standing still values.


Comments, opinions and counter-opinions are welcomed.
[/quote]

Can anyone confirm this. It'd be nice to know in lower tier games that I don't have to slow down to get a better spotting range.

amade #31 Posted Jan 11 2011 - 12:32

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View PostItsGonRain, on Jan 11 2011 - 05:21, said:


Can anyone confirm this. It'd be nice to know in lower tier games that I don't have to slow down to get a better spotting range.

What it means is that even if the scout is moving it is difficult for enemy tanks to detect the scout, whereas most other tanks while moving are easier to be detected by enemies. It has nothing to do with the scout's own spotting range. You don't have to slow down to spot more (though in cases where there are plenty of obstructions, moving too fast past them may not give the detection system enough time to trigger again if the detection check frequency is low but it still has nothing to do with your spotting range).

The added/upgraded stealth bonus for scouts came in with the 0.6.2.7 update.

S3AWOLF #32 Posted Jan 12 2011 - 00:15

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I've got a question.

If the view system is not broken then why do I see large IS7 tanks moving across a field at less than 200m away just disappear if I am looking right at him with no obstacles? And why do I run up on 3 or 4 tanks hiding in the woods (literally running into them)and have all 4 fire on me within 50m meanwhile they never show to me or my teammates?

I have no problem with obstacles or visibility being hindered by brush or buildings, but when it is blatantly obvious that you should see that big honken tank a few feet away and you don't while he and all his invisible buddies behind him are shooting the mess out of you I then have a problem with the view system.

You can't make things so realistic in a game that you lose the fun factor and gameplay. Anyone familiar with Flight Sims knows that the view system can never be 100% realistic due to the fact that we are playing on a flat monitor.

All I ask of the Devs is to make it a challenge, but don't make it fustrating to the point where it's no longer fun. If this view system is not tweaked to make it playable by the time this game is released I and I know my friends will not be participating in it.

azza10 #33 Posted Jan 12 2011 - 04:10

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View PostAragornSkywalker, on Jan 10 2011 - 10:56, said:

At what range does the bush in front of you obstruct your vision as much as hide your tank?

15 meters

Vash8349 #34 Posted Jan 12 2011 - 11:24

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Is there any benefit to have more than 1 crew member to have camouflage skill?

nerdbomb07 #35 Posted Jan 12 2011 - 22:37

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View PostVash8349, on Jan 12 2011 - 11:24, said:

Is there any benefit to have more than 1 crew member to have camouflage skill?

Crew skill is averaged across the number of crew members you have. So if you have 5 crew members with 1 having 100% camo skill, your tank only has 20% in reality. So yes.

Scorch_ #36 Posted Jan 13 2011 - 07:18

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umm probably a bit draconian but...

can camo just go away?
at least until things get worked out?


tbh most of our guys are in favor of just hot-wiring everyone on from the start for a while until things are "smoothed out" a bit...


not going to happen but I promised I'd suggest it ;)

Kozak115 #37 Posted Feb 15 2011 - 22:30

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View PostSnacky, on Jan 12 2011 - 00:15, said:

I've got a question.

If the view system is not broken then why do I see large IS7 tanks moving across a field at less than 200m away just disappear if I am looking right at him with no obstacles? And why do I run up on 3 or 4 tanks hiding in the woods (literally running into them)and have all 4 fire on me within 50m meanwhile they never show to me or my teammates?

I have no problem with obstacles or visibility being hindered by brush or buildings, but when it is blatantly obvious that you should see that big honken tank a few feet away and you don't while he and all his invisible buddies behind him are shooting the mess out of you I then have a problem with the view system.

You can't make things so realistic in a game that you lose the fun factor and gameplay. Anyone familiar with Flight Sims knows that the view system can never be 100% realistic due to the fact that we are playing on a flat monitor.

All I ask of the Devs is to make it a challenge, but don't make it fustrating to the point where it's no longer fun. If this view system is not tweaked to make it playable by the time this game is released I and I know my friends will not be participating in it.

You can't be implying that the mechanic is even remotely realistic as it is, given that objects do not go invisible bush or no bush. A realistic mechanic would be to have all the tanks always visible, remove the tanks outlines and let our eyes deceive us and hide the enemies when it is appropriate. Then modules like the camo-net could have actual visual effects that made them harder to see. Other than that I completely agree with you. Having a Tiger disappear right in front of you because it went behind a patch of grass would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

drommarnas #38 Posted Feb 16 2011 - 08:04

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Man, you can say what you want about Russians, but they are pretty much the most intelligent people on the planet. Ever since Heroes of Might and Magic mods, I'm impressed by their savvy.

Gorkzillah #39 Posted Mar 10 2011 - 06:27

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View PostCifu, on Nov 21 2010 - 19:51, said:

The source are the russian WoT forum. In this specific case Lukas_von_Salzburg, one of the moderator of that forum.

If you have better source, and/or better explanations, then please unravel for us.

It's not important what are the developers or moderators saying about it .... it's important HOW it is working now. And I am telling you it's not working like this at all. Disappearing tanks in the open?! Tanks hiding even moving behind a bush 20-30 meters away from you?! Hidden tanks shoot you from a forest and not seeing them at all even if you're closer?!

This is the hiding system at the moment.

Valimar999 #40 Posted Mar 24 2011 - 18:21

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Damn, it is tiring to read the hair splitting and whinning in these forums.  If spotting and camo are using formulas and everyone is using the same formulas, what is the problem?  OK a bug comes up and you get spotted, how many times has that same bug worked in your favor?  Did you complain about that?  Intermitant bugs of this nature add the unexpected. A small oil leak created a small puff of smoke from the exhaust and you get spotted. The randomness adds to the realism.  Combat is not a perfect world with a set of rules and a forum to cry about the unfairness of it all.  It has a whole lot of unexpected occurances and both good and bad luck.

If you see a bug, report it and move on.  The Devs should see what they can do, especially if it is a prevelant and/or a onesided bug.  Even if a battle gets bugged and oneside loses because of it, who cares, it is only 15 or less minutes.

If you want to cry about the Russian side being OP, then just join them.  Play Russian vehicles.  If it was a German game, I am sure the German tanks would be OP.  Same if it was a US game.  Deal with it.  The one historical thing about the russian vehicles that may not be honestly portrayed here by the devs is the shoddy workmanship of the russian tanks.  They were built so fast and in such vast numbers, that the specs should be adjusted to reflect that.  200 mil armour should be 180, due to lower grade metals and cruder welds.  German tanks should get an optics bonus too.  Maybe these things are being taken into account.

It is a game.  If you can't deal with it, by all means quit.





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