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Buff the HP on the M2 MT

M2 MT Buff HP

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Poll: Does the M2 MT need a HP buff? (34 members have cast votes)

Does the M2 MT need a HP buff?

  1. Yes! (12 votes [35.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.29%

  2. Ehh.... (6 votes [17.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.65%

  3. No. (16 votes [47.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.06%

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AGK47 #1 Posted Nov 16 2012 - 23:04

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Hello. I think the hitpoints on the M2 MT need to be buffed. Let us compare the M2 MT with the M3 Stuart:
HP: M3: 220, later 240. M2 MT: 180, later 210.
Armor (hull): M3: 38/25/25. M2 MT: 38/18/13
Speed: M3: 61 KMH. M2 MT: 43 KMH

The only things better with the M2 MT are ammo capacity (37mm), view range with second turret, and damage (75mm; really fun weapon).

Don't get me wrong; the M2 MT is fun, but it needs at least 240 HP with the second turret (I recommend 200-210 with the first turret). Thanks!
Please, I need YOUR support on this. Thank you.

Edited by AGK47, Nov 16 2012 - 23:54.


BandofBrothers101 #2 Posted Nov 16 2012 - 23:10

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it has a gun that gun one shot most of it's tier and tier 2....

McBaconater #3 Posted Nov 16 2012 - 23:21

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from now on every tank should just stay stagnant at where its developed..dont like they way the tank plays...well get a differant tank , there's no need for the dev team to be constantly bombarded with whiney requests to "fix" a tank when the best fix is already available..change tanks and tactics .

AGK47 #4 Posted Nov 16 2012 - 23:44

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The issue is that the M2 MT is highly vunerable to tier 4 and 5 tanks. The M3 stuart can run, and possibly weather an extra hit, but not as much with the M2 MT. It is, however, a fun tank.

Billymays #5 Posted Nov 17 2012 - 00:16

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View PostBandofBrothers101, on Nov 16 2012 - 23:10, said:

it has a gun that gun one shot most of it's tier and tier 2....

And it's regularly placed in matches with T1's and KVs.  :L

The health could use a buff, BUT it's armor needs one too.

pepe_trueno #6 Posted Nov 17 2012 - 00:20

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few hints for it

dont brawl make use and abuse of your superior view range to kill targets from far away, if you have the silver buy  binocs it will turn this thing into a sniping monster.


tier 5 heavys are your only real problem since their armor negate big part of the 75mm dmg, against t1 go for his side if you cant run away, if a kv well run away at sight  :Smile_veryhappy:  your gun wont damage him anywhere.


the howitzer gun has lots of tricks, if you manage to master them it can be  a monster like being able to shoot over obstacles  normal tanks cant or cripling to death bigger tanks by breaking key modules.

Edited by pepe_trueno, Nov 17 2012 - 00:21.


AGK47 #7 Posted Nov 17 2012 - 00:45

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View Postpepe_trueno, on Nov 17 2012 - 00:20, said:

few hints for it

dont brawl make use and abuse of your superior view range to kill targets from far away, if you have the silver buy  binocs it will turn this thing into a sniping monster.


tier 5 heavys are your only real problem since their armor negate big part of the 75mm dmg, against t1 go for his side if you cant run away, if a kv well run away at sight  :Smile_veryhappy:  your gun wont damage him anywhere.


the howitzer gun has lots of tricks, if you manage to master them it can be  a monster like being able to shoot over obstacles  normal tanks cant or cripling to death bigger tanks by breaking key modules.
Thanks!

View PostBillymays, on Nov 17 2012 - 00:16, said:

And it's regularly placed in matches with T1's and KVs.  :L

The health could use a buff, BUT it's armor needs one too.
True... but an armor buff is less realistic than a HP buff. Better MM is more like it.

AGK47 #8 Posted Nov 18 2012 - 18:25

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Here's the thing; the M2 MT is hard-pressed to defend itself against the m3 lee, which has the slightly unfair nickname of "The Garbage Truck", let alone defending against an M4 Sherman, or T1 Heavy tank; It would be hopeless against a KV-1. I think the M2 MT needs a slight buff to help (or better MM). What do you guys say?

AGK47 #9 Posted Dec 12 2012 - 03:14

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Bumpitty bump....
I need to add that the M2 MT is a big fat target, and that anyone who thinks that the M2 MT doesn't need a buff should grind it (if they haven't already), and then play 20 more battles with it, and then make an opinion. That would be helpful. Thanks.

Celebrim #10 Posted Dec 12 2012 - 16:16

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The M2 MT is already a candidate already for strongest tier 3 tank, especially when top tier.   It's mobility, derp gun, and turret make it a serious threat to all tier 3 vehicles, and will one shot most tier 2 vehicles.   When fighting up, the M2 MT becomes a support tank.  Although no longer able to crush most targets, it can plink away more effectively than most tier 3's and still has very good mobility.

While it is true that the M2 MT has a hard time defeating the tier 4 and tier 5 medium tanks, that is true of any tier 3 tank against its tier 4 and tier 5 counterparts.  All the tier 3 lights have a very hard to impossible time with tier 4 and tier 5 light tanks which generally have superior speed, mobility, armor, and firepower leaving the tier 3 player with little hope of countering any thing a player in a tier 4 (or shudder tier 5) light does.  Try killing a Leopard with a Luchs sometime, for example.  Most of the tier 3 lights have a difficult time doing more than occasionally sniping at tier 4 and tier 5 mediums, and in particular all the tier 3 lights can be hunted down and killed by the PzIV and M4 Sherman quite easily, if the medium tank can do so without exposing itself to fire.   All the tier 3 lights have serious problems with the KV-1 (which is hard to damage, and generally one shots you if you lose speed), and with the Churchill and T1 HT (which have rapid firing guns that easily track and kill tier 3 lights at medium range), and with the StugIII (which has sufficiently good view range and camo to be hard to detect and a good enough can to ruin your game in short order).   So in short, the M2 MT is not overly disadvantaged compared to other tier 3 competitors like the T-46 (which has similar problems), Luchs (which isn't sufficiently faster than a tier 5 medium to run away easily), and M3 Stuart (which has problems penetrating tier 5 armor).

I have a 56% win rate in 26 battles with the M2 MT, better than 1 kill per match, and it is the only tank I've ever sold that I really want back.  (And the next time that WG offers tank slots for half price, I'm going to buy another batch of gold and get it back.)

darastrix #11 Posted Dec 12 2012 - 18:29

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View PostCelebrim, on Dec 12 2012 - 16:16, said:

The M2 MT is already a candidate already for strongest tier 3 tank, especially when top tier.   It's mobility, derp gun, and turret make it a serious threat to all tier 3 vehicles, and will one shot most tier 2 vehicles.   When fighting up, the M2 MT becomes a support tank.  Although no longer able to crush most targets, it can plink away more effectively than most tier 3's and still has very good mobility.

While it is true that the M2 MT has a hard time defeating the tier 4 and tier 5 medium tanks, that is true of any tier 3 tank against its tier 4 and tier 5 counterparts.  All the tier 3 lights have a very hard to impossible time with tier 4 and tier 5 light tanks which generally have superior speed, mobility, armor, and firepower leaving the tier 3 player with little hope of countering any thing a player in a tier 4 (or shudder tier 5) light does.  Try killing a Leopard with a Luchs sometime, for example.  Most of the tier 3 lights have a difficult time doing more than occasionally sniping at tier 4 and tier 5 mediums, and in particular all the tier 3 lights can be hunted down and killed by the PzIV and M4 Sherman quite easily, if the medium tank can do so without exposing itself to fire.   All the tier 3 lights have serious problems with the KV-1 (which is hard to damage, and generally one shots you if you lose speed), and with the Churchill and T1 HT (which have rapid firing guns that easily track and kill tier 3 lights at medium range), and with the StugIII (which has sufficiently good view range and camo to be hard to detect and a good enough can to ruin your game in short order).   So in short, the M2 MT is not overly disadvantaged compared to other tier 3 competitors like the T-46 (which has similar problems), Luchs (which isn't sufficiently faster than a tier 5 medium to run away easily), and M3 Stuart (which has problems penetrating tier 5 armor).

I have a 56% win rate in 26 battles with the M2 MT, better than 1 kill per match, and it is the only tank I've ever sold that I really want back.  (And the next time that WG offers tank slots for half price, I'm going to buy another batch of gold and get it back.)

lol 26 battles and you think your an expert XD

Winrate dosent matter until atleast 100 battles

darastrix #12 Posted Dec 12 2012 - 18:35

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View PostAGK47, on Dec 12 2012 - 03:14, said:

Bumpitty bump....
I need to add that the M2 MT is a big fat target, and that anyone who thinks that the M2 MT doesn't need a buff should grind it (if they haven't already), and then play 20 more battles with it, and then make an opinion. That would be helpful. Thanks.

I grindef through it and so my point in your case is valid. Get a new tank or deal with it. Play it right or dont

Celebrim #13 Posted Dec 12 2012 - 18:43

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View Postdarastrix, on Dec 12 2012 - 18:29, said:

lol 26 battles and you think your an expert XD

Winrate dosent matter until atleast 100 battles

Even supposing any of that was true, what harm does it do to the facts and logic of my posting?

Or, if I may respond in like regard to the regard you've show me:

lol or you so dumb that you think that is a rebuttal? XD

Apply argumentum ad verecundiam and other non sequiturs don't matter and just make you look a mental noob, not me.

Come back when you've got more than 48% win rate commander of a noob clan.  How the heck do you manage to only compile 59 wins in 145 matchs in the KV-1?  Or just 7 wins in 23 matches in the T18?   Where in the heck do you get off claiming expertise with that sort of record?  You don't have 100 battles in the tank either, and even you did, why would anyone pay attention to your opinion given that you can't win games with some the undisputed strongest tanks in their tiers?  If not having 100 battles in a tank disqualifies you from making informed comment, maybe having a 813.18 efficiency rating should disqualify you from making any comment on the game at all?

AGK47 #14 Posted Dec 12 2012 - 20:49

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Guys, don't turn this in to a flame war. Winrate IMO is not a very good indicator of a players skill.

View PostCelebrim, on Dec 12 2012 - 16:16, said:

While it is true that the M2 MT has a hard time defeating the tier 4 and tier 5 medium tanks, that is true of any tier 3 tank against its tier 4 and tier 5 counterparts.  All the tier 3 lights have a very hard to impossible time with tier 4 and tier 5 light tanks which generally have superior speed, mobility, armor, and firepower leaving the tier 3 player with little hope of countering any thing a player in a tier 4 (or shudder tier 5) light does.  Try killing a Leopard with a Luchs sometime, for example.  Most of the tier 3 lights have a difficult time doing more than occasionally sniping at tier 4 and tier 5 mediums, and in particular all the tier 3 lights can be hunted down and killed by the PzIV and M4 Sherman quite easily, if the medium tank can do so without exposing itself to fire.   All the tier 3 lights have serious problems with the KV-1 (which is hard to damage, and generally one shots you if you lose speed), and with the Churchill and T1 HT (which have rapid firing guns that easily track and kill tier 3 lights at medium range), and with the StugIII (which has sufficiently good view range and camo to be hard to detect and a good enough can to ruin your game in short order).   So in short, the M2 MT is not overly disadvantaged compared to other tier 3 competitors like the T-46 (which has similar problems), Luchs (which isn't sufficiently faster than a tier 5 medium to run away easily), and M3 Stuart (which has problems penetrating tier 5 armor).

The problem is, the other tier 3 tanks can generally hide, or run away. Running away can be very difficult with the M2 MT, as it is somewhat slower than most of the light tanks, and it is a much bigger target. The M2 MT should have something to compensate for this.

AGK47 #15 Posted Jan 20 2013 - 21:58

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Bump. I still believe that a buff is necessary for the M2 MT. Please support me on this issue.
Thanks, AGK47

Celebrim #16 Posted Jan 20 2013 - 22:23

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View PostAGK47, on Jan 20 2013 - 21:58, said:

Bump. I still believe that a buff is necessary for the M2 MT. Please support me on this issue.
Thanks, AGK47

Err... this isn't golf or bowling - a 47% win rate is not better than a 48% win rate.  You are moving in the wrong direction.

And again, the M2 MT is one of the better tier 3 tanks.  It doesn't need a buff.   And further, your win rate in the tank is 51% which is above your overall win rate and better than the win rate you have in almost all of the other tier 3 tanks you've tried out.   This is consistant with the tank's global win rate which suggests that is is in its current form an above average tank.

And beyond that, it's your favorite tier 3 tank.  People rarely spend a lot of time playing tanks that aren't rewarding.  If the tank really was subpar, you wouldn't play it.

You are mustering neither facts nor experience in your cause.  Maybe you should give it up.

Meplat #17 Posted Jan 21 2013 - 00:11

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Historically, it was not a very good tank. More of a stumbling block on the way to the M3/M4 mediums.
If you like playing it, you should realize it is and was never a very good tank outside of this game, and try to just use what strengths it has.

AGK47 #18 Posted Jan 21 2013 - 13:52

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I don't think that a KV-1 with 85mm gun should be able to one-shot an M2 MT almost every time WITH AP ROUNDS. Somehow, I managed to one-shot an M3 Lee with said gun and round. Most of the tier three light tanks have enough speed and agility to flee from tier    five heavies, and many have enough speed or firepower to run from tier five mediums for a period, or enough firepower to fight them off. Not always the case with the M2 MT, which is a rather large target, and has an unhelpful armor shape, as well as less hot points than the Stuart, while being a bigger tank, and holding more crew members. Simple logic, my friends.

wilt57 #19 Posted Jan 21 2013 - 20:44

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I voted Ehh...  Reason why is because I think that a medium tank of the same MM should have more HPs than a light tank of the same MM.  That said, there doesn't seem to be a problem with the M2's game performance, so it's tough to validate this buff.  IIRC, the tier 3 lights used to get placed in higher matches than the tier 3 mediums did, fulfilling more of a "scout" role than a "battle" role and often facing much larger tanks.  This would be similar to how the T5 Chaffee has more HPs than the T5 Sherman, all about the MM.  Now that the MM has been adjusted and the M3 and M2 have the same MM, a change could make sense.

OTOH, the M2 teaches you to avoid confrontation first and foremost, something that goes a long way in the rest of the USA medium line.  It has absolutely awesome gun depression, so much that you can easily one shot SPGs and open top TDs with that 75mm by dropping the shell down into the crew compartments.  There isn't really another tank that can do that like the M2.  If you're not a howitzer guy/gal, the 37mm gun is quite respectable in most matches.  And as for dealing with tier 5 heavy tanks, get used to it.  Now that you can buy premium shells for silver, it doesn't hurt your bank too bad to carry a couple "just in case."  This tank has many positive attributes.  With that must come some negative attributes for balance.

wilt57

AGK47 #20 Posted Jan 21 2013 - 21:05

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You have some valid points there... My thoughts are that a medium tank should be tougher than a light tank, as it would be in real life. In a match today with the M2, I sniped a Bison, and busted up a panzer IV, and a panzer III/IV. Sucks that there was an annoying Churchill on my team. He just had to ram me, and shoot me in the back by accident, and not apologize....