Jump to content


Lakeville tactics.


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
50 replies to this topic

Horribad_At_Tanks #21 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 22:57

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 835
  • Member since:
    11-07-2012

View Postmaxr229, on Nov 19 2012 - 22:52, said:

I still defend a strong valley push as a viable win strategy on the basis that the valley is a shorter distance and is many times rather meagerly defended. A strong, determined and coordinated push through the valley can be in their cap point before the folks in the city can do anything about it.

Yes, but the trick is to get your pubbie team to all work together or even better adjust to a changing tactical situation which can be a rather daunting task on the mid tier maps.

DeathMutant #22 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:06

    First lieutenant

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 867
  • Member since:
    09-15-2010
FWIW: I have seen TDs on the middle road do some serious damage to defenders in the town and deny any attempts to flank from the lake side. Having heavy frontal armor, like a T28, would be helpful too since most tanks shooting back will be directly across the lake.

Horribad_At_Tanks #23 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:09

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 835
  • Member since:
    11-07-2012

View PostDeathMutant, on Nov 19 2012 - 23:06, said:

FWIW: I have seen TDs on the middle road do some serious damage to defenders in the town and deny any attempts to flank from the lake side. Having heavy frontal armor, like a T28, would be helpful too since most tanks shooting back will be directly across the lake.

True but we are talking about general pubbie competance and not trusted clan or platoon mates.

There are tons and tons of viable strats for lakeville and most of them are far beyond the reasoning of your average pubbie.

So you have to follow the KISS principle to make sure you have the highest average chance of winning.

Skyman1998 #24 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:11

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 27
  • Member since:
    04-25-2012

View PostNavySnipers, on Nov 19 2012 - 22:00, said:

Posted Image


The key is posted on the pic.


A small force can sufficiently hold off the valley from a much larger force, while your large force goes to the city and then flanks. The pic is pretty self-explanatory, so I won't go into a big long paragraph about it.

"Why can't this tactic work in the city? Why can't the small force of defender in the city hold of the larger force?"

Because, the city has many openings and alleyways. The valley on the other hand, has one entrance only. It is a much more enclosed battlefield. The defenders in the valley also have good bushes to hide behind. The valley also has much more rough terrain. It's a slow push through that area. The city on the other hand, has many more entrance points, and areas to flank.

The only way to flank the valley would be to go through the middle, although I doubt the people in the city would let you get through that big long round, especially un-noticed.


This tactic also works from the other side. Sending a large force to the city, and a small force of smart defenders to the valley.

What tanks work best in the valley? American tanks. Tanks that can go hull down work very well in the valley environment.
lol next time im top i'm going to city

IronDukes_Six #25 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:14

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 535
  • Member since:
    12-28-2011
+1 Sniper,
Wish there was a way to flash that image to PUBbies during battle load screen and count-down.
Sometimes I try the "reverse-pscyh" technique, but does not work consistently.
Guess I could have a notepad open with simple tactics for all battle senarios to copy & paste in quickly.
(Can't type fast enough)
But the general mindset of the usual teams I get on will just do the opposite on purpose... sigh

Edited by IronDukesFNG, Nov 19 2012 - 23:15.


ThatCrackRockSteadyBeat #26 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:16

    Major

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 3,823
  • Member since:
    06-26-2012
can someone explain why navy keeps making threads along the line of "im good at this game and listen to me to get better" when he's pretty mediocre and actually probably bad given the amount of games into the learning curve he is

Horribad_At_Tanks #27 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:18

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 835
  • Member since:
    11-07-2012

View PostViniZaoD, on Nov 19 2012 - 23:16, said:

can someone explain why navy keeps making threads along the line of "im good at this game and listen to me to get better" when he's pretty mediocre and actually probably bad given the amount of games into the learning curve he is

Those who can, do.

Those who can't, teach.

:Smile_popcorn1:

CrabEatOff #28 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:19

    Major

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 4,710
  • Member since:
    06-12-2012

View PostViniZaoD, on Nov 19 2012 - 23:16, said:

can someone explain why navy keeps making threads along the line of "im good at this game and listen to me to get better" when he's pretty mediocre and actually probably bad given the amount of games into the learning curve he is

to farm +1 rep.

or because he genuinely thinks he is helping.

its hard to tell, even via PM. however he doesn't come out and say he is good or anything, so he gets a little credit there.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


While nothing is patently untrue in this original post...nothing in it is going to move a 44%er to 49% or a 52%er to 55% based on this strategic overview.

Let me try to re-write the ideas here as an experiment:

Letting your pubs control the lanes: some general strategy for a map archetype

Several WoT maps have very tight lanes contrasted with open or honeycomb- like areas. This essay will cover only the general layout of the lanes, and how to use knowledge of them to your advantage. Some examples of this terrain are

1. Lakeville, where the valley is tight, and the city is honeycomb like
2. Airfield, the ocean push is fairly linear, while the rocky honeycomb is exactly what it reads like
3. Himmelsdorf, tank alley is fairly linear, while the western city is open

Generally matching your tank to the terrain is an important part of making good strategic decisions, with a few notable exceptions of course.

So in the laned areas a certain type of tank is going to have more success based on a few characteristics, specifically frontal armor and vulnerability to flanking. The T95 in himmelsdorf tank alley is the classic example. Hard front, nigh impossible to flank (outside of hill collapse) and cannot be artied down except in a few select spots. If you are in a tank with these characteristics  and armor is your thing, feel free to stop up and then advance on these lanes. They are often positioned so as to be important to the outcome of the game!

However the numbers matter. A T95 and 1 other tank can be expected to hold a laned area of a map even against a significant force. In part its because this is relatively tactically simple, especially when top tier. No flanks or arty to worry about. Peek shoot, peek shoot, let the person who brought the higher tier tank win! If you team wastes 7 tanks holding tank alley, you've got some issues (same goes for the other maps, Lakeville valley, Airfield ocean push, Ensk 1 line). You'll want to keep count on your team and how many are thrown into these laned areas. A flanked lane is simply a deadly crossfire. If you see too many pubs in the line, find another spot to be useful.

If you are in a light tank, medium tank, SPG or weak hulled TD don't go! A weaker armored TD can be justified if it is supporting a stronger push-worthy tank, since lanes keep the TDs from needing to traverse very much, and the previously mentioned flank avoidance, but stuff like the German and USA non-turreted line are ideal for these spaces. Lights and mediums will get chewed up against bigger tanks. Those classes of tank thrive in places where mobility is rewarded (the honeycomb areas, or open ground), instead of in places where trading shots is a certainty.

However! Leaving these lanes entirely open can be disastrous. Ignoring the 8-9 line on Abbey for 3+ mins (see how this archetype repeats across maps?) can find you with a T95 1 shotting your arty and then camping his crab-like ass on the cap circle. If you are a HT with good push capabilities (relative to tier etc) and you ignore that lane...its YOUR fault. If you are a LT or MT who didn't notice the gap and go spot it (via proxy, camo, whatever) it is ALSO your fault. It is not the fault of your scrub team! If you did notice the gap, and didn't ping/scream/spot then you're also at fault. If you did all that stuff, and no one re-positions, tell the arty to run and keep spotting from safety....hope for the best...lol

In some cases, the lane can be only likely to be used (South Coast, either extreme : Ensk the 1 line) because it is quite far, or involves a circuitous route to the objective. Slower tanks may be poorly suited to traversing the distances in these cases, and might be better used centrally, or await information from faster LTs and MTs before deploying to the far flung laned areas.

Although this a far from a complete strategic guide to public match gameflow, hopefully it will uncover some patterns of how maps play out, and about why there is always an argument about "noobs in the valley" at the start of lakeville, or why your LT is furiously pinging the 1 line on Ensk. See the patterns, see the games flow, manipulate the games flow, win the games.

Edited by CrabEatOff, Nov 19 2012 - 23:50.


fsjd #29 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:22

    Major

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 4,729
  • Member since:
    02-26-2011

View PostNavySnipers, on Nov 19 2012 - 22:00, said:

What tanks work best in the valley? American tanks. Tanks that can go hull down work very well in the valley environment.

unless theres a KVderp loaded with HE. those dont care what armor you have, they hurt anyway.

there is a battle tactics subforum, but it doesnt get near the traffic gen discussion has.
good, but rehashed, guide to lakeville. make sure you have good arty support on that valley though.

Exiledcrow #30 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:33

    Captain

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 1,520
  • Member since:
    11-26-2011

View PostHorribad_At_Tanks, on Nov 19 2012 - 22:51, said:

Only if you you want to lose more than you win relying on pubbie support.

Now a proper tc or cw will of course have tactics based off far more than a general basic strat but for pubbies you have to keep it minimal.

Also remember that the other side has just as many baddies so if your baddies have a modicrum of direction and theirs do not then you just upped your chance of winning by a fairly large percentage.



Which is why you take the time to figure out how to get your pubbie teammates to listen to a basic strat.

Winning in pubbie games is just as much about team oriented psychology as it is about personal skill.

Look at my stats, man, I have my hands full not having MY tank suck.

View Postmaxr229, on Nov 19 2012 - 22:52, said:

I still defend a strong valley push as a viable win strategy on the basis that the valley is a shorter distance and is many times rather meagerly defended. A strong, determined and coordinated push through the valley can be in their cap point before the folks in the city can do anything about it.

Which is why it almost always fails in pubs.

Horribad_At_Tanks #31 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:37

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 835
  • Member since:
    11-07-2012

View PostExiledcrow, on Nov 19 2012 - 23:33, said:

Look at my stats, man, I have my hands full not having MY tank suck.

Well, you can be not so skilled at the actual mechanics of shooting other tanks but still be intelligent enough to grasp what you should be doing.

Having others on the same wavelength will only help you win so make sure to communicate.

NavySnipers #32 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:40

    Major

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 11,888
  • Member since:
    10-18-2011

View PostCrabEatOff, on Nov 19 2012 - 23:19, said:

to farm +1 rep.

or because he genuinely thinks he is helping.

its hard to tell, even via PM.

Are you saying we should just let pubs continue to be valley lemmings instead of looking at the bigger picture?

DeathMutant #33 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:41

    First lieutenant

  • Beta Testers
  • 0 battles
  • 867
  • Member since:
    09-15-2010
Pubs fail on all counts of the "strong, determined and coordinated push." It just takes one relatively powerful tank to halt an entire column of enemy tanks because they usually panic and fall back into cover instead of "someone" taking a hit and overwhelming the lone defender with numerical superiority.

If you are advocating pushing up/down the valley in a pub match you will, most likely, die with the rest of them. That said, I have seen a valley push be successful but only when a platoon of top tier tanks leads the "pack", does not stop at the first sign of a lone or weak defenders and rolls over them like an angry tsunami.

Horribad_At_Tanks #34 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:42

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 835
  • Member since:
    11-07-2012

View PostNavySnipers, on Nov 19 2012 - 23:40, said:

Are you saying we should just let pubs continue to be valley lemmings instead of looking at the bigger picture?

Nah, he is saying his stats are better than yours so your opinion is invalid.  :Smile_trollface-3:

Silly, but it seems to be the sop for the forums.

NavySnipers #35 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:44

    Major

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 11,888
  • Member since:
    10-18-2011

View PostHorribad_At_Tanks, on Nov 19 2012 - 23:42, said:

Nah, he is saying his stats are better than yours so your opinion is invalid.  :Smile_trollface-3:

Silly, but it seems to be the sop for the forums.

I guess. I find that saying "Navy is a rep troll, stop making useless posts" is also a way to farm +1's.

Horribad_At_Tanks #36 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:46

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 835
  • Member since:
    11-07-2012

View PostNavySnipers, on Nov 19 2012 - 23:44, said:

I guess. I find that saying "Navy is a rep troll, stop making useless posts" is also a way to farm +1's.

+1

hunting_tabby #37 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:46

    Captain

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 1,597
  • Member since:
    11-11-2011
Another downside to the valley rush is that it's all-in. Haven't ever seen a successful withdrawal and redeployment from a valley push once it has started

Edited by hunting_tabby, Nov 19 2012 - 23:46.


ShivaX #38 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:47

    Major

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 3,679
  • Member since:
    04-18-2011

View Postmaxr229, on Nov 19 2012 - 22:52, said:

I still defend a strong valley push as a viable win strategy on the basis that the valley is a shorter distance and is many times rather meagerly defended. A strong, determined and coordinated push through the valley can be in their cap point before the folks in the city can do anything about it.

And then when you get to the end 2 tanks can hold off 8 while the rest of the team is capping your base or coming back to kill you.

Its not as suicidal as it used to be, but it still loses almost every time.

Exiledcrow #39 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:47

    Captain

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 1,520
  • Member since:
    11-26-2011

View PostHorribad_At_Tanks, on Nov 19 2012 - 23:37, said:

Well, you can be not so skilled at the actual mechanics of shooting other tanks but still be intelligent enough to grasp what you should be doing.

Having others on the same wavelength will only help you win so make sure to communicate.

No, I hear what you're saying and actually you're right, I've just never mastered the skill of typing in game without hurting my performance severely, so if I didn't say it at the start, I probably won't say it at all.

Horribad_At_Tanks #40 Posted Nov 19 2012 - 23:50

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 0 battles
  • 835
  • Member since:
    11-07-2012

View PostExiledcrow, on Nov 19 2012 - 23:47, said:

No, I hear what you're saying and actually you're right, I've just never mastered the skill of typing in game without hurting my performance severely, so if I didn't say it at the start, I probably won't say it at all.

Ok, quick guide to communication in pubbie games where you have to type everything out.

Be short and consice. Take some time to think about what you want to say in any given situation and then hash out a single sentence or even half dozen word phrase to convey it long before you actually hit the enter battle button.

Enjoy much increased win rates.