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[WN7] What is it and how does it work?

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Zhao_Zilong #1101 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 02:20

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WN6 is a good formula but still need to punish sealclubbers more though :P (which is something the VE+1 rating does quite well).

Interestingly enough my WN3-WN6 rating changed very little after every iteration and stayed more or less the same. :)

GirlsGeneration9 #1102 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 02:27

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What does WN stand for? Can someone please explain?

Qumefox #1103 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 04:53

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View PostUncleDolfy, on Jan 23 2013 - 02:20, said:

WN6 is a good formula but still need to punish sealclubbers more though :P (which is something the VE+1 rating does quite well).

Interestingly enough my WN3-WN6 rating changed very little after every iteration and stayed more or less the same. :)

I agree. People who have several thousand of battles and up, and an average tier <2, should get penalized HEAVILY for being clubbers in any kind of serious 'performance ranking. I mean, to the point that they get classified as terribad.

After all, if they're doing it purely for fun, then the stats and ratings won't matter to them.  It'd only matter if they're padding.

VaporGator #1104 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 05:13

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VE+1 could easily be used in conjunction with WN# to give a big picture view of a player.  VE does identify seal clubbers fairly well since the tie between damage and average tier is so pronounced... problem is I can't get any traction for VE since Wotlabs uses WN and Noobmeter uses his own PR.  WN and PR are competing ratings systems so to speak, VE does only one thing and does not attempt to qualify the overall skill of a player... just damage efficiency.

VE and WN produce the same results (in the sense that a good VE score can reinforce the current WN5/6 score) Now if you look at WN scores and then check a players VE score, if both are high you have a very accurate picture of a player. As with WN4 before, a high WN score and low VE score identified seal clubbers easily.  WN5/6 has fixed this issue to a degree of course, so that is good, but maybe using a specific rating as barometer to WN is a good idea?  If we used the VE tier charts I posted in the combo thread for all ratings, then that would be all the better because you would see the damage efficiency for a player vs others in the same average tier.  An Above Average player in Tier 5 may be viewed as a Average player in Tier 7 as a result.  Couple something that specific with the WN "overall" style rating and you would have a great idea how that player responds in battle.

I just don't know how to present VE in such a way since it is not on any website for easy reference.

VaporGator #1105 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 05:24

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View PostPraetor77, on Jan 23 2013 - 01:33, said:

Extremely good at beating up noobs is what CTO is. He ranks in at about 2100 WN6, while "normal" seal clubbers like lironman have fallen to scores of around 1600-1700. What do you guys think?

Btw, looking at CTO with a 14:1 K/D ration, yeah it is hard to say anything other than he is a extremely good seal clubber!  Even VE+1 lists him as 2400... So the results of WN6 seem to be fair in that regards for this seal clubber.  No denying he does it very well, better than an established seal clubber like AutismSpeaks by far.  We may not all agree with it, but he is damn good at it!

This is an example of where the VE style tier charts could be good... yeah, you are listed at 2400, Extremely efficient... yet it would all be in the context of the specific tier so someone with an Avg Tier of 7 may simply ignore a Tier 1 clubber with a 2400 score.

BeLiAL124 #1106 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 05:34

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Is there a place to see wn5 like you can on wot-news eff calc?  My wn5 is only 1808 and I'm wondering why it's so low other than defense points...

1.36 kpb and 1845 dmg averg. should count for something.

Boom_Box #1107 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 06:19

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View PostBeLiAL124, on Jan 23 2013 - 05:34, said:

Is there a place to see wn5 like you can on wot-news eff calc?  My wn5 is only 1808 and I'm wondering why it's so low other than defense points...

1.36 kpb and 1845 dmg averg. should count for something.

You mean like this?

Posted Image

GirlsGeneration9 #1108 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 08:07

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What does WN stand for?! >.<

Flakker2 #1109 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 10:58

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I know this may be a little off topic but is there any word on the WNx system being implemented into XVM? Perhaps as an alternative rating system, not necessarily replacing Efficiency, so users can toggle between which rating system they prefer?

View PostGirlsGeneration9, on Jan 23 2013 - 08:07, said:

What does WN stand for?! >.<

Weighted and Normalized, where the number following is the next iteration of the formula (currently, working on 6).

Boom_Box #1110 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 11:22

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Script should be working for Chrome now. No medals yet, chrome users don't deserve them.  :Smile-hiding:

Praetor77 #1111 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 12:30

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The XVM guys have asked me to have a discussio with them on their forum, after that it should be implemented quite soon. I sincerely think WN6 is quite fair with seal clubbers. CTO deserves his 2100 WN points, since I have to admit I think I could count with one hand the number of players who could manage the numbers he has (even at tier 1).

Meanwhile, players with good, but more "normal" numbers have dropped to the 1600 range, like lironman or burtoklov.

Belial, your WN6 is 1821. That´s unicum status! You think that´s low? :D
Only 10 less points than your efficiency.

Tier_One #1112 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 14:12

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View PostBoom_Box, on Jan 23 2013 - 06:19, said:

You mean like this?

Posted Image

FWIW, I'm using the 0.7.5.58 script on Waterfox 16.0.1 and I can see the label Performance Rating Calculations, however, I don't see any data.  If I turn the medals on, I loose the column headings, too.

Cheers!!

Neverwish #1113 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 14:25

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Well, I can't for the life of me implement this properly on WoTLabs. The ratings are coming out higher than they should be considering the ones you posted on the chart.
Belial for example should be 1821, but on the calculations on WoTLabs he's at 2166.

I've looked over the code several times, went through all the individual stats and everything should be correct...

Here is the formula I'm using on the PHP code:

(1240-1040/pow($avg_level, 0.164))*$avg_frags
	   +$avg_dmg*530/(184*exp(0.24*$avg_level)+130)
	   +$avg_spots*125
	   +$avg_def*100
	   +((185/(0.17+exp(($wr-35)*-0.134)))-500)*0.45
	   +(6-$avg_level)*-60

Edit: I'm doing a breakdown of the steps and comparing it to Boom_Box's script. Looks like the big problem is in the average damage...

Edit 2: Ok, now I'm confused, shouldn't the tier be capped at 6? According to Boom_Box's script, there is no cap...
My mistake, there is the cap.

Edit 3: Turns out I can't read. It's fixed now!

sirmax #1114 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 15:46

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View PostPraetor77, on Jan 21 2013 - 19:28, said:

WN6 formula:
(1240-1040/(MIN(TIER,6))^0.164)*FRAGS
+DAMAGE*530/(184*e^(0.24*TIER)+130)
+SPOT*125
+MIN(DEF,2.2)*100
+((185/(0.17+e^((WINRATE-35)*-0.134)))-500)*0.45
+(6-MIN(TIER,6))*-60
Did you missed MIN(TIER,6) in second line (damage)?

Vandelay #1115 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 15:50

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Looks like it's actually calculating slightly low now, compared with Boom_Box's script. Maybe because of rounding?

Muton #1116 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 16:37

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Making the seal clubbing factor at tier 6 seems a bit high when you consider that many people (myself included) prefer to run tier 5's for credit farming instead of buying a tier 8 premium. Also, there are a lot of tier 5 premiums useful for crew training (as well as credit farming).

It irks me that with this seal clubber factor set at tier 6 that every time I run a tier 5 tank for credits I am lowering my rating. That every time I move my T-44 crew into my Matilda IV for training that according to WN6 I am "seal clubbing".

I applaud the effort to handicap the clubbers but penalizing all those people running their Churchill III's, Matilda IV's, Ram II's and what-not is not the way to go about it. The seal clubber factor needs to be more targeted. It needs to have a huge impact on the real seal clubber tiers (1 and 2); decent impact at tier's 3 and 4 and no effect whatsoever at tier 5 and above.

Edited by Muton, Jan 23 2013 - 23:05.


NoobMeter #1117 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:39

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www.noobmeter.com now has WN6 support in player profiles.

Database recalculation job is in progress, when it will be done then I will switch server top button to show WN6 server top.

Let me know if you see any issues.

stumpjumper8 #1118 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 20:30

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Did the WN6 thing also.  Compared some players with Noobmeter and Wotlabs.  I found the overall value to be the same as Noobmeter.  However, Wotlabs and mine are quite different.  Can someone help verify the numbers a bit?  I don't have enough data for full 30/60 day values to be correct but at least I think the overall is.  I've checked the formula many times and if the overall is correct, the periodic ones should be as well.

Neverwish #1119 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 20:46

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View Poststumpjumper8, on Jan 23 2013 - 20:30, said:

Did the WN6 thing also.  Compared some players with Noobmeter and Wotlabs.  I found the overall value to be the same as Noobmeter.  However, Wotlabs and mine are quite different.  Can someone help verify the numbers a bit?  I don't have enough data for full 30/60 day values to be correct but at least I think the overall is.  I've checked the formula many times and if the overall is correct, the periodic ones should be as well.

What I was having trouble with was that I was putting the capped average tier everywhere it asked for tier, I didn't notice that on the second time the tier enters the formula, it is uncapped (not sure if it's on purpose or an overlook).
Once I uncapped it, I found the results consistent with the chart Praetor posted.

Boom_Box #1120 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 22:02

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View Post25B5VF7, on Jan 23 2013 - 14:12, said:

FWIW, I'm using the 0.7.5.58 script on Waterfox 16.0.1 and I can see the label Performance Rating Calculations, however, I don't see any data.  If I turn the medals on, I loose the column headings, too.

Cheers!!

I just installed Waterfox 18.0.1, it works fine for me.





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