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What's in a name?


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The_Chieftain #61 Posted Dec 07 2012 - 03:43

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Striker_002, on Dec 07 2012 - 00:41, said:

As I mentioned in another thread, I highly doubt "wolverine" was a Canadian nickname.  

To my understanding "wolverine" was only used to reference M10s using the American 76mm.  Considering the only M10's used by Canada were already converted to the 17-pounder "Achilles" versions, it is highly doubtful Canada dubbed that nickname.   My grandfather served in the 4th Canadian armoured division, 5th anti-tank regiment as a gunner in an Achilles.  The regiment printed a journal at the end of the war("The history of the 5th Canadian Anti-Tank Regiment"), and I only see the m10 referenced as the "achilles" or more often generally as a 17 pounder SPG or gun.

As you can see I'm rather passionate about this, have I convinced you any Chieftain, or would you still prefer a better source?  :Smile_Default:

Unfortunately, we are no better off than we were before. For British use we are in the same situation, it was usually 17pr in Self Propelled Mount M10 Mk I (II) C. The name 'Achilles' was not assigned until March of 1945 or so. If there was a nickname assigned to the vehicle by the British prior to the name "Achilles" (with 17pr or 3" regardless), I haven't seen anything from an authoritative source. Ditto from the Canadian or US sources. The difference being that "Wolverine" fits in with Canadian naming conventions better than those of US or UK. I'm not saying that the Canadians did call it that, but that right now my opinion is that if -anyone- called the thing "Wolverine", it would have most likely been the Canadians. We may as well be trying to prove the existance or non-existance of God right now.


kd7fds, on Dec 07 2012 - 00:51, said:

I don't care what your fancy paper said, my Grandfather always talks about his Slugger fondly, and is baffled when I suggest that some people called it a Jackson.   Yes, he is 92, alive, and sharp as a tack.

No disrespect to your grandfather, but that "fancy paper" is a written order by a general officer whose responsibility it was to develop vehicles. Unless your grandfather was somewhere higher in Barnes' chain of command, "Jackson" wins as the assigned name of the vehicle, even if the word didn't get to him or any other troops in the field. That doesn't preclude the use of 'Slugger' (or anything else) by the troops, in the same manner that the M998 is occasionally referred to as a "Hummer" or the M60A2 is sometimes known as "Starship"

_Spud #62 Posted Dec 07 2012 - 04:05

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How about go off of Military Testing names for the tank.
Not nicknames for the tank given by testers/developers/war-time victims/ or anyone else.

I'd rather learn the look of the tank by M36 than "M36 Slugger."

Two names sounds repetitive.

The_Chieftain #63 Posted Dec 07 2012 - 04:13

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That is personal preference as well, but I am in a substantial minority on that one

The_Chieftain #64 Posted Dec 07 2012 - 06:16

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Quote

Have you always been able to just ring up various primary researchers and authors? lol

How do you think I got them all to come to California for Think Tank?

Response from Mr Estes:

Quote

The M103 only existed in the army as 74 M103 [+6 T43/E1], of which 72 were issued in 1957 to the 2-33d Armor, later replaced by USMC loaned M103A1. They were taken out of army service in 1962. Because they were in the end unwanted and the USMC had 220 of them, the army had little interest in naming them and the USMC never named its vehicles.

There was a 1/72d scale tank kit from Japan that I built in 1970, the box cover called it the "Kennedy."  Most unlikely!


cwjian90 #65 Posted Dec 07 2012 - 06:35

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The_Chieftain, on Dec 07 2012 - 06:16, said:


I don't think the US has ever named anything other than aircraft carriers after presidents, no?

The_Chieftain #66 Posted Dec 07 2012 - 07:58

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Huh. Doyle and Fletcher have chimed in on the conversation as well. If the email string gets much longer, there may well be a Part 2 to this.

Mow_Mow #67 Posted Dec 07 2012 - 11:36

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The_Chieftain, on Dec 07 2012 - 07:58, said:

Huh. Doyle and Fletcher have chimed in on the conversation as well. If the email string gets much longer, there may well be a Part 2 to this.

Definitely look forward to this. Great read, especially after going through pages and pages of boring translations of medieval religious Japanese text.

Striker_002 #68 Posted Dec 07 2012 - 19:12

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The_Chieftain, on Dec 07 2012 - 03:43, said:

Unfortunately, we are no better off than we were before. For British use we are in the same situation, it was usually 17pr in Self Propelled Mount M10 Mk I (II) C. The name 'Achilles' was not assigned until March of 1945 or so. If there was a nickname assigned to the vehicle by the British prior to the name "Achilles" (with 17pr or 3" regardless), I haven't seen anything from an authoritative source. Ditto from the Canadian or US sources.

I'll have to agree I'm confused where it came from and why it is even used in WOT.  I've known of the m10/achilles long before playing this game, and I was surprised one day after a patch and seeing the m10 being called a wolverine for the first time in my life.  I'm definitely behind you if you are trying to change the in game name back to M10.

balmung60 #69 Posted Dec 09 2012 - 02:39

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cwjian90, on Dec 07 2012 - 06:35, said:

I don't think the US has ever named anything other than aircraft carriers after presidents, no?
Well, there is the USS Jimmy Carter, which is a Seawolf-class submarine, but that's because Jimmy Carter was a submariner.

Okinoshima #70 Posted Dec 12 2012 - 18:37

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Just on the topic of Canadian Wolverines, there was an attempt in December 1942 to convert the Ram medium tank to an open topped tank destroyer with a 3" gun

http://www.ramtank.c...experiments.htm

As far as I know though it was just called '3" S.P. Ram Mk. I'

PostApocalypse #71 Posted Dec 17 2012 - 14:47

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I will keep calling it the M36 Slugger. To me, it only matters what the troops called it.

Stevenlaw #72 Posted Dec 19 2012 - 20:04

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Chieftain.

It has been two weeks since your last post.   I miss your posts as I really do enjoy the history and seeing the tanks that the game uses in real life and the intricacies that they had in their development and wars.   It brings meaning and enjoyment to the game and wondering when your next post might be.

The_Chieftain #73 Posted Dec 20 2012 - 00:43

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Long story. I'm still aiming for one Hatch and one video per week, but we've had some delays/distractions

Xlucine #74 Posted Dec 20 2012 - 18:18

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Did those distractions include restoring the interior of the maus, ready for a hatch video?

The_Chieftain #75 Posted Dec 21 2012 - 00:19

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Oddly enough....

No.

reese342 #76 Posted Dec 21 2012 - 01:06

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View PostZergling, on Dec 06 2012 - 04:54, said:

I would absolutely call mine Scootaloo in that case.
Please dont call a tank chicken.

Xlucine #77 Posted Dec 21 2012 - 01:51

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View Postreese342, on Dec 21 2012 - 01:06, said:

Please dont call a tank chicken.

unless it's the tetrarch.

reese342 #78 Posted Dec 21 2012 - 01:56

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View PostXlucine, on Dec 21 2012 - 01:51, said:

unless it's the tetrarch.
I see what you did there. but, scootaloo's nickname is chicken.
Brony joke.

Xlucine #79 Posted Dec 21 2012 - 02:03

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Yes, I know that. I was suggesting the tetrarch is like scootaloo.

reese342 #80 Posted Dec 21 2012 - 21:23

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View PostXlucine, on Dec 21 2012 - 02:03, said:

Yes, I know that. I was suggesting the tetrarch is like scootaloo.
I see.

View PostOkinoshima, on Dec 12 2012 - 18:37, said:

Just on the topic of Canadian Wolverines, there was an attempt in December 1942 to convert the Ram medium tank to an open topped tank destroyer with a 3" gun

http://www.ramtank.c...experiments.htm

As far as I know though it was just called '3" S.P. Ram Mk. I'
Me gusta this tank.




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