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Yet another Artillery Suggestion...

Artillery HE Mechanics Derp Penetration

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Rudel_Jager #1 Posted Dec 28 2012 - 17:18

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All right, we're all tired of all of the various suggestions for changing artillery to hold the tide of the high level (and general) artillery scourge. There's also the scourge of the Tier 4-6 derp guns, the 105s and the 152s.

I think that a good portion of this issue can addressed with a change to the mechanics of HE shells. My suggestion is simple:


Give all HE shells a penetration of Zero.



The obvious effects would be:

Much more difficult to get high damage rolls with HE as penetration will only occur when Overmatch occurs.

Fewer tanks getting 'One-Shotted'



Now I think this would alleviate some of the really annoying aspects of artillery and  make the game more fun.


Additional, related suggestions:

Add an 'Overmatch Factor' to HE which the shell's Caliber is multiplied by for overmatch calculations (probably between 0.8 and 1.2)

'Stun' and 'Jolt' effects for crew and modules in the blast radius of a shell. Crew members would take temporary skill reductions, while modules would take damage, but be able to be repair to full operation.




The net effect would be to turn arty from a primarily damage causing weapon to a debuffing weapon which makes it easier for friendly tanks to kill the enemies that are hit.

CrazyIvan3700 #2 Posted Dec 28 2012 - 17:23

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This would make arty usless, some tanks would only do tier 1 damage, and I one shot people with AP all the time; just know where to hit.

B0B_Ross #3 Posted Dec 28 2012 - 17:32

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View PostCrazyIvan3700, on Dec 28 2012 - 17:23, said:

This would make arty usless, some tanks would only do tier 1 damage, and I one shot people with AP all the time; just know where to hit.

YEA HE ONE SHOTS PEOPLE ALL THE TIME, yet cant win even half the games he plays or do a sembelance of decent damage per game.

Rudel_Jager #4 Posted Dec 28 2012 - 17:33

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It certainly wouldn't make arty useless, 95%+ of artillery shots already don't penetrate.

Odirom #5 Posted Dec 28 2012 - 17:35

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OOOOOOOoooooOOOOOoooooOOOOOoooooo I have a suggestion for your arty suggestion:

Spoiler                     

O

Fenriswaffles #6 Posted Dec 28 2012 - 17:35

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We're in World of Tanks sir, not World of Warcraft...debuffs? Status effects? Are you serious?

and let's add wholly ridiculous, HE shells DO penetrate, where in the world do you think it makes sense that a 7-inch shell full of high explosives crashing in to the thinly-armored top of a tank won't do damage?


View PostRudel_Jager, on Dec 28 2012 - 17:33, said:

It certainly wouldn't make arty useless, 95%+ of artillery shots already don't penetrate.

Problem here is that HE always penetrates. Its just not the traditional pen that you find in AP, its just a lower penetration over a set radius rather than a single point of penetration.

CrazyIvan3700 #7 Posted Dec 28 2012 - 17:38

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View PostB0B_Ross, on Dec 28 2012 - 17:32, said:

YEA HE ONE SHOTS PEOPLE ALL THE TIME, yet cant win even half the games he plays or do a sembelance of decent damage per game.
so says the guy with less than 5K games

CrazyIvan3700 #8 Posted Dec 28 2012 - 17:39

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View PostRudel_Jager, on Dec 28 2012 - 17:33, said:

It certainly wouldn't make arty useless, 95%+ of artillery shots already don't penetrate.
Yes I only see an arty shot not pen every 50 or so battles!

Rudel_Jager #9 Posted Dec 28 2012 - 17:46

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View PostFenriswaffles, on Dec 28 2012 - 17:35, said:

Problem here is that HE always penetrates. Its just not the traditional pen that you find in AP, its just a lower penetration over a set radius rather than a single point of penetration.


Unless you're wholly unaware of how HE, in which case you would know that this is complete Bull.

Armor has two effects on HE damage.

First, the shell attempts to penetrate the armor. If it penetrates, it explodes inside the hull and does full damage.

If it fails to penetrate, the shell explodes and the weakest section of armor within the blast radius if found. This section of armor then reduces the damage from the HE in proportion to it's thickness.

This is why a HE shell that hit the from of a Maus can do no or minimal damage, while the same shell to the side of an AMX 50b will do 1000+



http://wiki.worldoft...anics#HE_Shells

Rudel_Jager #10 Posted Dec 28 2012 - 17:48

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View PostCrazyIvan3700, on Dec 28 2012 - 17:39, said:

Yes I only see an arty shot not pen every 50 or so battles!

*facepalm*

Every 50 or so shots you'll probably see a full damage artillery hit. You know, the ones that knock of half the tanks health or destroy it outright?

jdcombines #11 Posted Dec 28 2012 - 17:49

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Lets be realistic here !! If "HE" has no pen then the artillery would be worthless in game!!Most artillery rounds pen the top of tanks from above and if you have ever had the chance to climb on top of a tank where the engine compartment is it has vents and doors for servicing and its very thin in armor so as far as artillery 1 shooting most tanks if its hit in the engine area its a fair kill!!

Fenriswaffles #12 Posted Dec 28 2012 - 17:52

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View PostRudel_Jager, on Dec 28 2012 - 17:46, said:

Unless you're wholly unaware of how HE, in which case you would know that this is complete Bull.

Armor has two effects on HE damage.

First, the shell attempts to penetrate the armor. If it penetrates, it explodes inside the hull and does full damage.

If it fails to penetrate, the shell explodes and the weakest section of armor within the blast radius if found. This section of armor then reduces the damage from the HE in proportion to it's thickness.

This is why a HE shell that hit the from of a Maus can do no or minimal damage, while the same shell to the side of an AMX 50b will do 1000+



http://wiki.worldoft...anics#HE_Shells

Odd, I believe I described just that...

B0B_Ross #13 Posted Dec 28 2012 - 18:00

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View PostCrazyIvan3700, on Dec 28 2012 - 17:38, said:

so says the guy with less than 5K games

Yes in 5k games ive been able to do whatever it is you d,o in however many games you play, but much better,  umad?  Are you thinking im lucky and will regress to the mean?  my last 400 games have been at 68% win ratio (all pubs i might add), and my average last week or so is 80%.  Its ok that the big bad better player made fun of you just laugh it off next time.

don2bauti #14 Posted Dec 28 2012 - 18:06

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View PostRudel_Jager, on Dec 28 2012 - 17:33, said:

It certainly wouldn't make arty useless, 95%+ of artillery shots already don't penetrate.

And yet a lot of UNICUMs are afraid of that 5% lol.

Rudel_Jager #15 Posted Dec 28 2012 - 18:06

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View PostFenriswaffles, on Dec 28 2012 - 17:52, said:

Odd, I believe I described just that...

You seem to have conflated the concepts of 'doing damage' and 'penetrating'

HE shells can do damage without penetrating.




Note: I made this suggestion recalling that the Overmatch mechanic caused automatic penetration when shell caliber was greater than 3 times the armor it hit. The overmatch mechanic now increases the shell normalization and does not effect HE shells. With this in mind, the HE penetration would need to be left at ~10mm to allow shots to pass through extremely thin armor. Personally I think that overmatch resulting in automatic penetration and low or zero HE penetration would correctly simulate impact fused HE munitions while allowing for immense damage in limited cases.

Edited by Rudel_Jager, Dec 28 2012 - 18:24.


Herr_Apotheker #16 Posted Dec 28 2012 - 19:04

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Ask SU-152 about knocking tiger turrets clean off with (direct fire) HE. This the impact of 150mm at close range = devastation with concussion. No pen needed!

Not same as indirect fire!

Opinion: HE direct fire if hit should be even more devastating! This is a flaw in game, I am sorry to say, as I love this game.
Thanks,

n4cer67 #17 Posted Dec 29 2012 - 03:20

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No, HE does penetrate and do damage. That would be like saying AP only affects heavy armored vehicles and anything under 50mm is immune to it.