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Is the VK2801 a viable replacement for the Patton 3 in CW?

Clan Wars CW VK2801 PattonIII Patton3 lolwut?

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StarkiIIer #1 Posted Jan 10 2013 - 05:07

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I know what you're thinking, that I'm crazy and all.  But hear me out, I have some evidence to support my thesis.

We know how the Patton 3 got nerfed to Hades and back several patches ago, and now my VK4502A can solo one if I get lucky enough.  However, I've also loved my VK2801, and I've noticed that most of their stats are similar.  In fact, too similar.  I started doing some stat comparisons, and came up with some interesting numbers.  In fact, a VK2801 with brothers in arms, gun rammer, and vents is actually superior to a Patton 3 in 4 of what might be the 6 most important regards.

DPM: VK2801 (2763.46875) > Patton 3 (2659.8) Note: the VK2801 has 100 more DPM than the Patton 3 using HEAT shells.  Ouch.

Reload: VK2801 (7.5991451 sec.) > Patton 3 (8.74535569 sec.) Note: the VK2801 reloads almost 1.25 seconds faster than the Patton 3.  Ouch again.

Speed: VK2801 (72 kph) >> Patton 3 (45 kph) Note: obvious fact is obvious.  Just bringing it up to reinforce my point.

Camo: Something extremely important in a world where most armor in existence isn't worth a duck's tail feathers.  Not only does the VK2801 get more camo than the Patton 3, it also retains its camo on the move.  Mega-ouch.

In fact, the Patton 3 is only superior in 2 of the 5 most important regards.  It obviously has many other advantages, but most of them don't mean anything in a CW environment.

Armor:  Patton 3 (110/76/35) > VK2801 (60/40/30) Note: 110 mm of armor is going to protect you from what, exactly?  A VK2801's HEAT shell will go through this.  Also might be worth noting that the Patton 3 only has 5 mm more rear armor than the VK2801.

Health: Patton 3 (2000) >>>>> VK2801 (610) Note: the only reason why the Patton 3, in my opinion, would be even a closely rational choice over the VK2801, and the only reason why tier 5 lights aren't ubiquitous in CW from my point of view.

Radio Range: Patton 3 (746) > VK2801 (710) Note: 36m is not that big a difference when you're talking about radio range.  I'd be tempted to call this a draw, but I can't appear biased here.

View Range: Patton 3 (420) > VK2801 (390) Note: the other major advantage the Patton 3 has over the VK2801, although this difference can be closed either completely with the binocs or partially with the coated optics.

Horsepower: Patton 3 (860) > VK2801 (650) Note: a pretty big difference, yes.  I still go faster than your patton, and since my weight is far less, I still take less time than you to get to speed.

Alpha Damage: Patton 3 (390) > VK2801 (350) Note: a 40 damage difference is nothing in CW.  Plus, if you switch HE for HEAT, the VK2801 not only does 10 more damage on a full penetration, you don't even have to aim properly.


Accuracy: Patton 3 (.36) >> VK2801 (.54) Note: ouch on the VK2801.
Now, obviously there's a whole bunch more that could be covered, but that's for another day in the editing sequence.  Given the numbers I have crunched, could the VK2801 be a feasible, mid-to-late game alternative or even replacement to the Patton 3 (especially with the right driver)?

Discuss.

Edited by StarkiIIer, Jan 10 2013 - 05:17.


Argon3 #2 Posted Jan 10 2013 - 05:13

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No

I play CW and only see that tank now that Meds go to T10 if it is not a full team

Razstrelnikov #3 Posted Jan 10 2013 - 05:13

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You forgot:

(And now added)Accuracy: Patton 3 (Gud) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>VK2801 (Derp)

and

Penetration: Patton 3 (268) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>VK2801 (150)


Pretty important, no?



I am confuse...

Rockenbach #4 Posted Jan 10 2013 - 05:13

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These look like really valid points to me. But that HP difference as you said probably is the reason why they don't use 2801s. But what do I know... nada

xTheButcherPete #5 Posted Jan 10 2013 - 05:13

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Sure, all of the bling from being a light tank is cool...
... til you get one shotted

Pope_Shizzle #6 Posted Jan 10 2013 - 05:14

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Since the Patton3 has no place in clan wars to begin with, the entire premise of your argument is silly.  Assuming for purposes of argument that the Patton3 is actually useful in clan wars, the 2801 is a piece of garbage in organized clan wars.

StarkiIIer #7 Posted Jan 10 2013 - 05:16

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View PostPanzerKampfHase, on Jan 10 2013 - 05:13, said:

You forgot:

Accuracy: Patton 3 (Gud) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>VK2801 (Derp)

Thanks for bringing that up, just added.  Knew I'd forget something knowing me.

View PostxTheButcherPete, on Jan 10 2013 - 05:13, said:

Sure, all of the bling from being a light tank is cool...
... til you get one shotted

Unless you're running straight into a TD or E100, your 610 health means you won't get one-shotted from your average heavy tank shell.

HotAndSensualDonut #8 Posted Jan 10 2013 - 05:17

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No. Simple reason, HP. A VK2801 will die in 2 shots, or less. The Patton can take much more punishment.

Razstrelnikov #9 Posted Jan 10 2013 - 05:20

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I'm still sitting here dazed after seeing someone compare a tier 5 light tank to a tier 10 medium tank as if they were similar... :Smile_amazed:

Top_Gear_UK #10 Posted Jan 10 2013 - 05:20

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Interesting indeed. One issue I have, there are a lot of guns in tier 10 that can 1 shot the VK2801, but not the Patton. Survivability has to be an issue. Yes, some of this is taken up for in the camo value advantage of the 2801, but then you need to realize that most crews in serious CW situations are 100% trained with at least 2 bonus skills/perks. Once this is factored in and view ranges are re-calculated (base is 420 for the Patton) many go over 500, after 500, you get a bonus to stealth detection making the 2801 a really fast coffin in my opinion...

Superaman #11 Posted Jan 10 2013 - 05:25

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View PostPope_Shizzle, on Jan 10 2013 - 05:14, said:

Since the Patton3 has no place in clan wars to begin with, the entire premise of your argument is silly.  Assuming for purposes of argument that the Patton3 is actually useful in clan wars, the 2801 is a piece of garbage in organized clan wars.

Boom!

Whee #12 Posted Jan 10 2013 - 05:28

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VK2801 isn't that useful. In very rare occasions, clans use the T-50-2 for a VERY fast mad dash to the enemy base to eliminate arty very early. (Abbey is an example)

Dirizon #13 Posted Jan 10 2013 - 05:35

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The original poster is pretty delusional.
Tier 5 super scouts are not clan wars material, at all. They get 1-shot by many things, and if not, 2-shot. Artillery, though incapable of hitting a light tank, will splash them, and even splash would be lethal. M48 has more than 3x its hitpoints, with much more protection. M48 still has a turret that will reflect the occasional shot, and has 3Om more view range. Firepower is a no contest, and l am surprised it was even brought up. M48 does more alpha damage, has much more accuracy, has much more penetration, and can equip both gunlayer+vertical stabilizer. M48 has capable -ranged- firepower, VK28 cannot shoot at all beyond 2OOm. Though the 1O.5cm HE howitzer is fun on the VK28 and a definite threat to artillery, it falls real short in tier 1O encounters. The M48 1O.5cm does not fall short, and remains a threat to all tanks. 15O Pen and that miserable accuracy is not enough to penetrate any tier 1O tank frontally, except Batchat. lf you think you are going to do that, and that it is enough for penetrating M48 11O sloped armour, you are mistaken and inexperienced.

minime262 #14 Posted Jan 10 2013 - 05:35

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Not even...

Tazilon #15 Posted Jan 10 2013 - 09:59

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View PostDirizon, on Jan 10 2013 - 05:35, said:

The original poster is pretty delusional.

M48 has capable -ranged- firepower, VK28 cannot shoot at all beyond 2OOm.

I'm not about to argue Cougars should be in Clan Wars but only someone who has never driven a 2801 could make such a silly statement.  YOU are delusional.

Dirizon #16 Posted Jan 11 2013 - 22:30

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Are you serious?

You are a commander. Do you run VK28 in your clan battles? That could be why no one knows your clan, and why you never amount to anything within it.
M48 may not be the best clan wars medium tank out there, given Bat Chat popularity and dynamics, but it is tremendously more capable than VK28.
Thinking like that is probably why your performance refuses to better itself, despite a hefty 27 thousand games. 0h well, maybe you can fix that up in another 27 thousand games. Maybe.