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A thoughtful Type 59 suggestion

elevation angle depression type 59 tier 8

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Atrophy #1 Posted Jan 15 2013 - 23:38

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From the start the Type 59 has harshly divided the community.  People who have them complain when they are nerfed and people who don't have them complain about how overpowered, ubiquitous and unavailable they are.  I drive a T-54 and when pitted against Type 59s I notice one unacceptable trait.  The type 59 has 7 degrees of gun depression.  The t-54 has 5 degrees of depression.  The Type 59 is significantly more versatile than the T-54 because of this.  Hull down positions are hard to come by in the t-54 but not the type.  I suggest that with no other changes the type 59 could be re-implemented if it's gun depression was reduced to 4 degrees, a historically accurate value.  The Type 59 combines a simple play-style with impossibly good traits and best in class armor with no compromises.  Bring back the Type 59 and make it what it should be.

While you are at it give the Lorraine 8 degrees of depression.  The turret has that little divot in the turret for the gun but fully depressed the gun doesn't even reach it.

DrJoBob #2 Posted Jan 15 2013 - 23:41

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just saying... t54 still is a monster compared to the type59..... way bether armor and way bether gun in all arund....

Grampy #3 Posted Jan 15 2013 - 23:48

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How about this? I paid good money for my Type 59, and if you don't like it - why didn't you buy one? Instead of devaluing my purchase?

Meanwhile, I have a T44 that will run rings around my Type 59, better gun, better speed, less armor, the only reason I play the Type more often is that it always makes money. If I can handle a Type with a T44, you have no excuse not to be able to deal with one with a T-54. I also have a T-54, and I would put it up against a Type anytime.

Would probably lose money, but that's how the game works, right?

Short answer: NO!

Atrophy #4 Posted Jan 15 2013 - 23:49

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I never said i had trouble killing type 59s.  I just would like to be able to buy one and with no changes WG will never reintroduce it.

CamaroMullet #5 Posted Jan 15 2013 - 23:58

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View PostAtrophy, on Jan 15 2013 - 23:49, said:

I never said i had trouble killing type 59s.  I just would like to be able to buy one and with no changes WG will never reintroduce it.
Of course they will, I would guess once or twice a year. I would bet sometime around a week or so before a quarterly earnings report goes up the flag pole.

Friendorpho #6 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 01:45

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View PostAtrophy, on Jan 15 2013 - 23:49, said:

I never said i had trouble killing type 59s.  I just would like to be able to buy one and with no changes WG will never reintroduce it.

The Type 59 isn't unavailable because people cry about them being OP. It isn't available because it completely skewed the MM in ways that ruined the game for some of the lower tiers (6/7 for example). The Type 59, being as popular as it is, drastically inflated tier 8.

If you want to buy one, wait for Chinese New Years (Feb 11) which is the next most logical time the tank will be on sale. IIRC it went on sale last CNY.

SumiXam #7 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 18:19

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View PostFriendorpho, on Jan 16 2013 - 01:45, said:

t isn't available because it completely skewed the MM in ways that ruined the game for some of the lower tiers (6/7 for example). The Type 59, being as popular as it is, drastically inflated tier 8.

This argument is no longer valid with the introduction of many more Tier 8 premium tanks since the Type 59. The Type craze at its introduction was insane, but that has leveled off significantly and has never been back to that level. Tier 8 now has multiple premium tank options along with many tanks that players enjoy. Other players keep multiple Tier 8 tanks for company battles. The bloat at Tier 8 doesn't belong entirely to the Type 59. That argument could have been made 15 months ago, but it doesn't hold water now.

Friendorpho #8 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 18:55

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View PostSumiXam, on Jan 16 2013 - 18:19, said:

This argument is no longer valid with the introduction of many more Tier 8 premium tanks since the Type 59. The Type craze at its introduction was insane, but that has leveled off significantly and has never been back to that level. Tier 8 now has multiple premium tank options along with many tanks that players enjoy. Other players keep multiple Tier 8 tanks for company battles. The bloat at Tier 8 doesn't belong entirely to the Type 59. That argument could have been made 15 months ago, but it doesn't hold water now.

I didn't say it was still valid, I simply said it was why WG removed the Type 59 to begin with, though I admit I had some inconsistent tenses.

Midnitewolf #9 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 18:59

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Type 59 was popular for alot of reason.

First and foremost, it got Tier 7 MM at the begining which was a huge mistake because MM was much worse than it was now and it commonly got matched against Tier 4 lights and Tier 5 tanks normal tanks that couldn't hurt it.  This gave it a reputation of being OPed which is was....in the Tier 7 MM bracket.

Additionaly because of the Tiering, it made tons of money.

Then you have to consider that medium tanks in general are fun to play....especially if your getting put into a MM bracket that lets you walk all over the competition.

Then there is the fact that cosmeticly a Type 59 looked like a T-54 which was considered at the time (maybe even now) the absolutely best Tier 9 medium tank.

Then finally, you have to consider the price.  The Lowe, which got almost as bad as the Type 59s for a while had just had its price doubled and the KV-5 had gotten a bad reputation mostly due to the fact that for 7500 gold, the Lowe was hands down a better purchase and tank rather than because the KV-5 is a bad tank.  This left people who wanted/needed a premium a choice between the KV-5 at 7500 gold or the new Type 59 at 7500 gold.

The end result was that the Type 59 was a no brainer purchase and EVERYONE bought them which led to major overpopulation and finally WGing having to remove them from sale to prevent the game from becoming World of Types.

However, one thing the Type 59 isn't is OPed, not with the current MM applied to it, which when changed also nerfed its earning potential by about 25% (When I first got it, I average 54k a game, after the MM change 35k a game).

The problem is that too many people still believe they are OPed and want one because of that believe.  What the fail to realize is that with the current premium options, there are plenty of fun premiums to buy, many that make great credits as well.

To the OP, no Type 59s don't need a nerf.  It is no better than any other Tier 8 medium and people who paid good money for a premium tank shouldn't be punished by further nerfs just because others, who have never played a Type think they are OPed.

deathsheads #10 Posted Jan 17 2013 - 13:00

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I have clan mates pulling 65% solo win rates in types, lets face it the tank in good hands is oped.  That said it also makes a bad player disproportionately better than they would be in ANY other T8 medium, so while it rewards skill my main complaint is it does NOT adequately punish stupidity.  (Gun depression nerf would affect high end players more than bad players)

SumiXam #11 Posted Jan 17 2013 - 16:46

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View Postdeathsheads, on Jan 17 2013 - 13:00, said:

I have clan mates pulling 65% solo win rates in types, lets face it the tank in good hands is oped.  That said it also makes a bad player disproportionately better than they would be in ANY other T8 medium, so while it rewards skill my main complaint is it does NOT adequately punish stupidity.  (Gun depression nerf would affect high end players more than bad players)

:eyesup:  Any tank in good hands will appear OP. Your clan mate is likely running mostly premium ammo too. For me, that defeats the purpose of the Type which is to make credits. I run 5 APCR rounds and they rarely get used. I prefer the profits. If I want to pub stomp there are much better tanks suited for that.

Dogsoldier6 #12 Posted Jan 17 2013 - 17:20

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Due to standard WG procedure, once a premium type tank has been introduced into the normal tech tree, as the Type 59 now is, it is never sold again as a premium.

As for the Type 59 not being OP for tier 8, then explain why the Type 59 (normal non-premium which very much like the premium Type 59) is a tier 9. They are not that much different.

Guess WG Devs know how unbalanced it would be IF they left it in tier 8 non-premium.

SumiXam #13 Posted Jan 17 2013 - 18:21

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View PostDogsoldier6, on Jan 17 2013 - 17:20, said:

Due to standard WG procedure, once a premium type tank has been introduced into the normal tech tree, as the Type 59 now is, it is never sold again as a premium.

As for the Type 59 not being OP for tier 8, then explain why the Type 59 (normal non-premium which very much like the premium Type 59) is a tier 9. They are not that much different.

Guess WG Devs know how unbalanced it would be IF they left it in tier 8 non-premium.

Yeah...that's spot on.   :Smile_sceptic:  I guess you've been in the WG development meetings. How many times does the fact need to be revisited that the Type 59 is nowhere near Tier 9 material? Not even close. Any of its peers can tear it apart easily. Just stop posting that...it's beyond ridiculous.

Friendorpho #14 Posted Jan 17 2013 - 18:53

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View PostDogsoldier6, on Jan 17 2013 - 17:20, said:

Due to standard WG procedure, once a premium type tank has been introduced into the normal tech tree, as the Type 59 now is, it is never sold again as a premium. Not true, the Churchill, Matilda, and Valentine tanks are still available for the Soviet tree. The Chieftain confirmed at the last community gathering I attended that the Type 59 would go back on sale, but did not even hint at a time. Please provide another example of this so called "standard procedure".

As for the Type 59 not being OP for tier 8, then explain why the Type 59 (normal non-premium which very much like the premium Type 59) is a tier 9. They are not that much different. They are indeed very different. The non-premium Type 59 gets a more powerful engine, MUCH more poweful guns, and of course more hitpoints.

Guess WG Devs know how unbalanced it would be IF they left it in tier 8 non-premium.


Midnitewolf #15 Posted Jan 17 2013 - 20:10

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View PostDogsoldier6, on Jan 17 2013 - 17:20, said:

Due to standard WG procedure, once a premium type tank has been introduced into the normal tech tree, as the Type 59 now is, it is never sold again as a premium.

As for the Type 59 not being OP for tier 8, then explain why the Type 59 (normal non-premium which very much like the premium Type 59) is a tier 9. They are not that much different.

Guess WG Devs know how unbalanced it would be IF they left it in tier 8 non-premium.


And like the other posts I responded to...I am guessing the people complaining have not took advantage of the public test to actually try to tanks they are complaining about right? Odd that isn't it.

Anyway the WZ-120 is hands down a better tank than the Type 59. It is faster and more agile with alot better climb and accelleration, very near a T-54 actually. Also its gun options totally outclass the Type 59.

This is why it is a tier 9 tank.

Dogsoldier6 #16 Posted Jan 17 2013 - 21:55

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I do find it funny that the Type 59 drivers continue the myth of the sluggish tank. Like I have never run in a platoon with Type 59s and my T-44....... With over 16,000 battles I have and they are the same in acceleration, climbing, maneuver, and speed....... And do not give me the crew baloney, my T-44 has a 300%+ crew as do the Type 59s I ran with, so cut the excuses.

The Type 59 has a better gun, better armor (Almost identical to the T-54 a tier 9), and is identical in all other categories or better, then the T-44 a tier 8.

The real truth is the Type 59 drivers whined so much after the MM reset that WG gave them their OP tier 8.5 baby back, by buffing the armor and the gun.

amaROenuZ #17 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 04:52

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The Type lost its 7 degrees in 8.2, when it was brought in line with the now released Chinese line.

At 5 degrees.

MikeD #18 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 05:02

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Sooo the type isn't actually good, there's just a conspiracy to convince everyone that it's good?

SumiXam #19 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 17:05

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View PostMikeD, on Jan 18 2013 - 05:02, said:

Sooo the type isn't actually good, there's just a conspiracy to convince everyone that it's good?

It's not that it isn't good. It's an adequate medium, and can do quite well when played capably (like most other tanks in this game). It's tiresome that there are those who haven't played one, who insist that it is more than what it is, and perpetuate claims that are completely false. If Dogsoldier6 thinks a Type 59 can go toe to toe with a T-54, I'm sorry, but that's just complete fabrication. Along with any other Tier 9 medium. Any half-decently driven, fully upgraded, Tier 8 medium will smash a Type 59 the vast majority of the time.

Dogsoldier6 #20 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 18:44

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View PostDrJoBob, on Jan 15 2013 - 23:41, said:

just saying... t54 still is a monster compared to the type59..... way bether armor and way bether gun in all arund....

I see this and wonder if they can read....................

Armor is way better?
Type59/T-54/T-44
Turret Armor
Front: 200/200/120
Side: 130/160/100
Rear: 60/65/100
Hull Armor
Front: 100/120/90
Side: 80/80/75
Rear: 45/45/45

Doesn't look like "Way better armor" to me, or anyone else with two eyes and can read numbers.

Yes the T-54 has a better gun, it needs it because it is a tier 9. But why does the Type 59 have almost the same armor and it is a tier 8 with MM preference?

The Type 59s gun is also way better then the T-44s gun, and don't you Type players start talking about the 122mm it can carry. NOBODY with a T-44 uses it because it stinks for a brawler/flanker
Type 59 DP: 188-313 Pen: 136-226mm
T-44 DP:173-288 Pen: 131-219

In performance, and I am so tiered of this hogwash argument (Like people are actually dumb enough to believe this one) that the Type has sluggish acceleration and handles like a pig. Right  :Smile-bajan2:
I have run my T-44 with my Clan Mates Type 59s in platoons and ya know they keep right up with me over all terrain types, including uphill, and they brawl right with my T-44 when we engage. Don't even try to say my T-44 needs a better crew, they are at 300%+ in skills, not counting the base 100% crew skill. And I have asked what my Type 59 mates are running and it is pretty much the same skills/perks and extra equipment as my T-44.

Type59/T-44
Speed: 56km/h / 51km/h
Turret Rotation: 46/48
Hull Rotation: 46/44

What's next are you going to tell me the Type 59s radio range of 600 compared to the T-44s 730 is crippling in battle? Not for a flanker/brawler tank it isn't. In fact it is almost pointless.

Hands down, with its MM preference, the Type 59 is OP for tier 8 and can be best described as a tier 8.5. Yup and the Type drivers will say anything to prove otherwise but those numbers up there don't lie.