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is PUSH HARD!one! always logical?


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jdtherocker #1 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:13

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Okay there has been one thing that has been getting on my nerves a tiny bit. That's the hardpush. I have noticed there's a tendency that when your teammates on the other side is losing rather than trying to help them out we seem to scream in team chat "PUSH HARD!!!!!" but is that always the solution? For me personally I see it work ~50% of the time but aren't there cases where it would be much better to back up your teammates rather than risk getting rolled? I can tell you personally there have been many times where an effort for a hardpush has ended up nowhere and you just get decimated. A more experienced team will see it happen because its the move that is most done. I can see it working more at tier 5-7ish but at tier 10 I don't find it to necessarily be the right move. If I seem like i'm ranting and I am going to get a response of "maybe if your team did better". I'm not attacking my teammates or playing the "OH I ONLY GET BAD TEAMS!" card. I'm just rather discussing on the tendency to PUSH HARD, when the other side is being crushed.

Opinions?

PelicanGuy #2 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:16

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PUSH HARD!!!ONE!!! only has a good chance of working when you outnumber your enemy.

Lert #3 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:16

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You misunderstand. There's just a lot of pregnant women giving birth, in this game.

View PostPelicanGuy, on Jan 16 2013 - 15:16, said:

PUSH HARD!!!ONE!!! only has a good chance of working when you outnumber your enemy.
And if they're not dug into a defensible position. And if your team doesn't stop to trade fire but pushes on.

That's three big ifs, which combine to "Pushing hard rarely works and when it does, it's a fluke".

Nithydux #4 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:16

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The "Push Hard" tactic is only good when the other group is outnumbered and or outgunned.

More often than not a good charge on a group of tanks holed up in cover Not only makes them panic, but it gets the flank won.

But if there are snipers hidden in the bushes...

jdtherocker #5 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:17

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View PostLert, on Jan 16 2013 - 15:16, said:

You misunderstand. There's just a lot of pregnant women giving birth, in this game.
This is sig worthy. You make it hard to make it look like your hard at work

Courier90 #6 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:17

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In my own experience if I'm on the pushing side and the other side is failing i always turn around and go help the other side. Either to stop of at least stall the advancing enemy team. Its definitely a team effort and in order for a HardPush to work then the whole dream needs to be on board to wants going on.

jdtherocker #7 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:19

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View PostNithydux, on Jan 16 2013 - 15:16, said:

The "Push Hard" tactic is only good when the other group is outnumbered and or outgunned.

More often than not a good charge on a group of tanks holed up in cover Not only makes them panic, but it gets the flank won.

But if there are snipers hidden in the bushes...
Not only that be we go PUSH HARD!!!!!oneelventyoneone!!!1 and than people stop to hit tanks that are in cover rather than moving up on them giving time for the enemies to come back.

SULOMON #8 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:20

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The best defense is a good offense.  Pushing hard Isn't necessarily key to a good offense and the people that complain that the team didn't push hard are the ones that seem to rush up and die.

Lophat #9 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:20

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generally by that time it's to late to get over to the other side.  you are taking guns out of the fight for the time it takes to get from one side to the other and if they get there after the side has collapsed they will probably just get rolled too.

antonov225 #10 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:20

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No, it does usually work, but sometimes it does not. This one time, on lakeville, I was pushing valley. We ended up winning valley, but my team lost city AND middle. Now, kwwp in mind that I was in my TOG. I ended up 4v1 in my TOG, trying to stop our base from being capped. I went on to kill their ELC, T21, KV-1 and one other tank, winning the game. All this time my team was yelling at me to go back and cap the enemie's base.

jdtherocker #11 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:21

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View PostSULOMON, on Jan 16 2013 - 15:20, said:

The best defense is a good offense.  Pushing hard Isnt necessarily key to a good offense and the people that complain that the team didn't push hard are the ones that seem to rush up and die.
The problem is if you say push hard. I am expecting others to push hard, I will lead the charge I will die first if that means my teammates can pick off enemies and we can win but if we push hard and i start moving forward and my teammates begin sniping it doesn't end well. that's like pushing "softly" for the lack of a better word.

ncstate12 #12 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:22

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in a situation like this where our team is losing by a couple of tanks and u predict at least 2 to 1 your team outnumbering the side you are on, what you do is simple, help the team push hard and outnumber the defending side for other team, but when you think your guys can easily handle it, go back to base to reset cap/defend while your other noob teammates finally make it to cap.

If losing by 4 or more tanks I normally just push hard to CAP asap as your best shot is outcappign them.

Dayus #13 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:24

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Push hard only really works in organized play/with competent tankers working together focus firing and covering each other.

jdtherocker #14 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:24

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View Postncstate12, on Jan 16 2013 - 15:22, said:

in a situation like this where our team is losing by a couple of tanks and u predict at least 2 to 1 your team outnumbering the side you are on, what you do is simple, help the team push hard and outnumber the defending side for other team, but when you think your guys can easily handle it, go back to base to reset cap/defend while your other noob teammates finally make it to cap.

If losing by 4 or more tanks I normally just push hard to CAP asap as your best shot is outcappign them.
It is but sometimes I find it would be more logcal to back up the other side, especially if your only like 3-4 tanks and they'll have 2 good players defending.

Enaris #15 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:35

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About the only time I'll say it is when I notice that the team has badly overloaded one section of the map.  At that point, the only real options are
1) Push Hard to take advantage of the numerical superiority you've created
2) Have someone redeploy (if possible).

Sadly, what I usually see is option 3
3) The overstrength flank hunkers down, gets into a sniping contest and rages at their teammates on the weak flank for getting rolled.

jdtherocker #16 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:41

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View PostEnaris, on Jan 16 2013 - 15:35, said:

About the only time I'll say it is when I notice that the team has badly overloaded one section of the map.  At that point, the only real options are
1) Push Hard to take advantage of the numerical superiority you've created
2) Have someone redeploy (if possible).

Sadly, what I usually see is option 3
3) The overstrength flank hunkers down, gets into a sniping contest and rages at their teammates on the weak flank for getting rolled.
Heh teammates raging is a totally different topic but yes I have noticed PUSH HARD!! and then everyone stops to snipe @_@

djb_95 #17 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:47

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View Postncstate12, on Jan 16 2013 - 15:22, said:

...If losing by 4 or more tanks I normally just push hard to CAP asap as your best shot is outcappign them.
This is the situation I think of for calling for 'push hard!'.  If one side is just rolled and/or you can't make it back in time, your ONLY chance may be an all out desperation push to cap.

DiscordedTwilightSparkle #18 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:48

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i am more of the opinion CAP FAST while your base is undefended and they are about to cap

*Sarcasm*

Edited by DiscordedTwilightSparkle, Jan 16 2013 - 15:49.


F0R_M07H3R_RU5514 #19 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 15:57

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Push Hard can be a difficult suggestion to accept.

However, if you have mini-map awareness and you can see the opposite flank of two tanks getting rolled by eight or more enemy tanks, it seems to make perfect sense to advocate for the push.  In theory, you have at least opposite numbers in advantage and should be able to roll the other flank.

Lost a game last night ... my platoon decided to take the flank that the other 12 tanks had completely ignored.  We were playing defense and peeked out to see what was coming and within two minutes had spotted nine enemy tanks.  So, in theory, the other flank has a 12 to 6 advantage and should be able to roll them.

We emphatically suggested that the flank with the majority PUSH HARD because we were convinced we could hold for a good period of time and we were confidant they could overwhelm the opponent.  We didn't count on all of them taking the time to encircle a single tank destroyer, as opposed to the mix of three mediums and lights moving on to scout ahead of the heavies finishing off the TD, but that is another topic.

We were able to defend and reset enough times that, in the end, we out cap'd them by around a minute.

DingBat #20 Posted Jan 16 2013 - 16:00

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In my opinion, the "Push Hard" scream most often comes from frustration. It's a cry to do one of two things:

1. Get your ass back to help the threatened flank
2. Get off your ass and win the game on your flank

If #2 isn't possible, then you better start thinking about #1.

Oh, and it helps if you NEVER, EVER commit to a flank with the intent to just "hold it". If you want to play defensive, then find some place where you can flex to whatever side is most threatened. If you commit to a flank, then push the flank. If you can't win on that flank, fall back to a flexible position.