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TD's will be the NEW Artillery.


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DanQuayle #161 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 00:04

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View PostWarStore, on Jan 17 2013 - 05:23, said:

\

Someone never seen a T30 or JTiger leading a charge.

Oh, but I have and let me tell you it's a beautiful sight.  I've come to really enjoy playing tank destroyers and, with a few exceptions, I prefer taking up the assault role over being a passive sniper.  Getting up close is the best way to ensure that your superior DPM is leveraged to the fullest, and drawing lots of fire helps your mediums and faster heavies can get in and wreak havoc.  Most TDs can really smash face provided they have some flank support.

My point was more about Draconis67's (and others) faulty comparison between TDs and arty.  Even the campiest of TD players need to expose themselves to return fire in order to get their damage in (and if they are sniping from extremely long ranges they'll probably have a hard time actually damaging anything aside from tracks) whereas this is not the case for even a well-played SPG.

MasterofGrond #162 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 00:40

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If a TD is shooting me, I can shoot him back (unless I'm an idiot and getting abused by hills).

Can't say the same for arty.

sovietdoc #163 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 00:41

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There should only be two reasons why you got shot by an arty.

1.  You're stupid and stood still.
2.  The arty player is a pro.

tanky_the_tank #164 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 00:45

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Firing high accuracy gun from 450m against tank who can't spot past 350m and can't hit more than 1 in 3 return shots isn't exposed to return fire. Invisi TD's don't need to be so far to do their stuff, if you can't see em it's hard to shoot back at em at any range.

In another topic Garbad mentioned sitting and sniping being easier playstyle than surviving at front. If arty was gone and sniping TD's ruled the game and were 7 per match like arty party, I am 100% sure he would be posting REMOVE_TD_FROM_THE_GAME every chance. Sniping doesn't usually work so well high tier, it's much easier low tier with low view range and easier to hide tanks. So if you pulled arty with no other changes, there wouldn't be immediate takeover by invisi TD's. But if invisi TD's somehow took over it would be arty flamewar v2.

thejoker91 #165 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 01:26

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View Postsovietdoc, on Jan 18 2013 - 00:41, said:

There should only be two reasons why you got shot by an arty.

1.  You're stupid and stood still.
2.  The arty player is a pro.

You are missing the most important ones:

He got lucky.
Another arty tracked you by hitting somewhere within 10 meters of your general position
You wanted to actually contribute to the game by attacking instead of hiding behind a rock

Vautour #166 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 01:35

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View PostQumefox, on Jan 17 2013 - 07:16, said:

Yes please.  By all means quit starting arty rant threads and arguments. The forum will be a much nicer place if you do that.

After all, how many people have ever started 'arty is super awesome!" threads? 3 or 4 times a day?  It's you guys who pollute the forums.

Also the phrase 'haters gonna hate' very much applies.  Once you guys 'deal with' SPG's.. TD's will be next on the nerf list.

Haters gonna hate is meaningless drivel not worthy of a response.

And TD are not OP simply because they do not break the most basic rule of game design the way arty do.

Risk vs reward.
Firing from out of line of sight is as risk free as you can get.
One shot kill/cripple is the highest reward you can get.
Those two together is so bad a design idea that anyone straight out of game design school should know that you can't do that.

Edited by Vautour, Jan 18 2013 - 01:36.


goff #167 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 01:42

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View Postsovietdoc, on Jan 18 2013 - 00:41, said:

There should only be two reasons why you got shot by an arty.

1.  You're stupid and stood still.
2.  The arty player is a pro.

Agree but even us pro arty players dance in joy when players park their tank in one location too long, its like a big bull eyes that say shoot me.

Kaeldian #168 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 01:51

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Actually, I'd rather face a TD with no arty support than certain american tanks in a hull down position.  The TD's I actually track and flank.  Much harder doing that against turreted hull down tanks.

This whole argument is silly.  Anybody with a lick of sense knows there is a gigantic difference between lobbing shells at the back of the base and hitting people at 800 meters and sniping from a bush with a risk of being spotted at 400 meters.

WG saw the data and finally understood arty was out of whack.  Hell, I played more than a 1000 games of arty and understood it.   This is the way it is guys, and more changes are coming.  You tell us to adapt?  Well guess what guys, it looks like YOU are the ones who have to adapt.

What?  Can't adapt?  Then stop telling US to adapt if you yourself is unwilling to do so.

Hypocrites.

goff #169 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 02:03

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:Smile_trollface-3: I can still troll with derp guns on OP TDs like the ISU 152 and object 704 with the highly unlikely event that WG has remove arty from the game. With no arty I can one shot tanks more easily without any death from above attacks. I can even stay in the bush with the high camo for these tanks.

Gaffield #170 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 02:10

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View Postgoff, on Jan 18 2013 - 02:03, said:

:Smile_trollface-3: I can still troll with derp guns on OP TDs like the ISU 152 and object 704 with the highly unlikely event that WG has remove arty from the game. With no arty I can one shot tanks more easily without any death from above attacks. I can even stay in the bush with the high camo for these tanks.

With that hit rate and russian guns, I don't think that is something for us to worry about ;)

thejoker91 #171 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 02:11

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View Postgoff, on Jan 18 2013 - 02:03, said:

:Smile_trollface-3: I can still troll with derp guns on OP TDs like the ISU 152 and object 704 with the highly unlikely event that WG has remove arty from the game. With no arty I can one shot tanks more easily without any death from above attacks. I can even stay in the bush with the high camo for these tanks.

Yeah, we are so scared.

Joefess #172 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 02:19

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View PostKaputt, on Jan 16 2013 - 19:13, said:

The splash damage radius is the only thing that has been nerfed, damage remains the same; arty just needs to be more accurate.

artillery needs to be more accurtae ? your an idiot artillery is very accurate at the moment

thejoker91 #173 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 02:20

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View PostJoefess, on Jan 18 2013 - 02:19, said:

artillery needs to be more accurtae ? your an idiot artillery is very accurate at the moment

I think he meant arty players need to be more accurate with their shots to do dmg, not that they need to buff arty accuracy.

Edited by thejoker91, Jan 18 2013 - 02:20.


lft #174 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 02:20

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View PostTedster59, on Jan 16 2013 - 19:06, said:

so my JPE100 will be feared now?

:)

Nope. Still laughed at.

krungol #175 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 02:57

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View PostN00BSAIB0T, on Jan 17 2013 - 00:07, said:

It is easier to grind tier 1-8 in arty, vs. tier 1-10 in tanks/TDs. That's a commonly known fact. I've had 2,300+ battles in arty, and I can tell you that those battles were my easiest. You don't have to take cover behind buildings, you don't have to play peek-a-boom, you don't have to worry about aiming at a specific area of a tank, and so on. You just hide in some bushes and fire on a tank. You don't have to worry about your targets, the ones you hit for half their health, firing back at you from hundreds of meters away.

With playing tanks, you have to concentrate a lot more, which makes the grind more difficult. Even if the XP cost of grinding arty was more than the XP cost of grinding tanks, it's less taxing of a grind on a player. You eliminate a lot of effort and cause quite a bit of damage.

Even bad players can inflict tremendous damage in arties, since it's so damn easy to play.

aLL THOSE BATTLES AND YOUR STILL A NOOB?   LOL
Yes arty doesnt worry about counter fire scouts and there shots never  miss or do no damage LOL
basicly your to stupid to play arty and tanks...

goff #176 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 02:58

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View PostGaffield, on Jan 18 2013 - 02:10, said:

With that hit rate and russian guns, I don't think that is something for us to worry about ;)

Do you mean the SU 8 hit rate ????  :Smile_trollface-3:

abandon7 #177 Posted Jan 18 2013 - 07:50

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View PostShockedQuartz, on Jan 16 2013 - 19:26, said:

Isn't it really easy to get either now a days? Look at all the triple digit efficiency players that have 10's or tier 8 arty now. It just takes more time for them. LOL A year ago you could count on most 10's to be decent at least. The n00bs, through perseverance and dedication have played through their fail so all of us in the top tiers can enjoy their prowess.

Efficiency is broken. I see to many players going to 'help cap' so they can get their efficiency points rather than protect the players on cap already from getting damaged thus cuasing a rest and often enough costing us the game. It's a system that to often rewards bad behavior and if you go by it you're an idiot IMO.

View PostKilgorSoS, on Jan 16 2013 - 19:29, said:

And it's about time!!!!!!

Nice to see arty players, (Even Teribad ones) raging about the nerfs, especially when most are rejoicing. The overpopulation of arty at end tier has been ruining gameplay since 7.5, and honestly, do you think you will get 1 oz of sympathy from the masses?

It is what it is. My arty will be sold, I advise you to do the same, or just deal with it. That's the only answer at this point.

The over population of arty at tier ten should be fixed when they stretch them out to tier ten. The nerfs do not fix it or address it at all.

View PostCrimson_Edge, on Jan 16 2013 - 19:39, said:

...all the big boys who actually use tanks will finally have some fun tank on tank battles without the interruption of a random nuke to ruin the fun.

Yes, it takes a rather oversized boy to demand to have his fun at the expense of others.

View Postmuya999, on Jan 16 2013 - 19:42, said:

there is enought firepower to pen and damage anything that spgs aren't necessary

I guess you have not encountered a 3 Maus platoon on a good team.

View PostCrimson_Edge, on Jan 16 2013 - 19:44, said:

I'm tired of people claiming that arty is inaccurate.

When you shoot at a tank 850m in overhead view and hit 50% of the time, that's WAY more than shooting at an enemy tank with another actual tank 850m and hitting 0% of the time. It may seem inaccurate, but that's only because you're shooting targets that are typically 2-4x further than the average tank fight distance with non-artillery tanks.

Arty is inaccurate at any range it is combat effective. To far and you can often miss(not even slapsh damage) a target holding still. To close and not only are you aiming in on the but they are aiming in you now and they will do it much faster. There is a kind of sweet spot in the middle but even there you risking them moving in just a little further and spotting you.

Apples and oranges my friend. You comparing an SPG that fires 3-4 times every two minutes inaccuratly at very long range vs. a shorter range tank that fires 8-12+ with accuracy times in the same time span.

View Postbluepiglet, on Jan 16 2013 - 20:23, said:

The ones lose more than they win should not be allowed to message in game, or post on this forum.

Who plus one'd this? Piglet needs a spanking for this kind of bad attitude, not a pat on the head...

...

+1 for lulz

View Postteamoldmill, on Jan 16 2013 - 20:40, said:

For the JPE, drive around them, shoot them in the butt a few times with your 3,000 DPM mediums.

If they are doing it right, this is not so easy and you'll be putting their teammates at your flank if you try...

View PostHicksimus, on Jan 16 2013 - 20:44, said:

So what you are trying to tell me.....is that fighting a tank I can't see....a tank that doesn't take 30 seconds to reload....a tank that can hurt me alot with line of sight....a tank that does the same DPM as arty....a tank with better accuracy than arty......is just as awful a threat that I will soon discover. Right!

fixed that for ya... iHELP

View Postjsnazz, on Jan 16 2013 - 20:47, said:

I have more respect for those that kill me using a TD than an arty since TD need to be near the front line while arty hide in a dark corner firing cheap shot from across a map.

I'll miss some of those sneaky arty that carried us through :=]

No one likes you go away

View PostN00BSAIB0T, on Jan 16 2013 - 21:05, said:

it's more difficult to grind a Tier 10 tank or TD, than a Tier 8 arty.

look at the costs and compair to average exp earned.

View PostTibalt, on Jan 16 2013 - 21:14, said:

1 - most fighting requires movement and tactics. So you are saying that arty moved,fought and employed tactics just as much as every one else? How about putting themselves at risk? Again, i would lean towards the tanks here.Not buying it.

2 - If by f'd in the butt you mean you thought that gravy train would go on forever...then i guess you haven't played many online games. Rarely does one class get to lord over the others and change gameplay like artillery for as long as it has. Be thankful the trip wasn't shorter. Arty had a good run and these changes aren't exactly earth-shaking. 8% less splash damage and a health nerf are really minor considering what else could have been changed. Of course, more nerfs are likely if the participation in tier 10 doesn't go up and the arty parties continue.

1. If you never move your arty for tactical advantage, you are bad at arty.

2. If you do not track the flow of combat across the map and pay special attention to the enemies likely to give you team problems, you are bad at arty.

Firing at random available targets might put little numbers next to your name but if you do not help with the more problematic enemy tanks in time it will not help. You must think strategically and tactically constantly reassessing the plan, esspecially in pubs who do not often have a plan. You need to know the strength and weaknesses of your teams tanks, judge the players playstyles, who's going to be cuatious, who's going to rush to take advantage, where you need to put holes in the enemy lines.... You can effect the entire battlefield so whole thing is to a degree on your shoulders. Don't ever say arty requires no skill. Arty needs to know everything about everything so that the few times per match they can call down death from above it is at the right place, at the right time.

There are plenty of bad arty players out there that will never get better. Myself, I am still learning... I have learned enough however, to realize the derogatory simpleton terms that many spread about arty are just regurgitated rhetoric spewed by those who cannot stomach any aspect of the game beyond their direct control. The 'If I play perfectly I should live and win' crowd has no place in a team based wargame.

That is all for now.




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