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Italian Tanks and Military Vehicles

italian tank tree heavy medium light tank destroyer artillery semovente carro armato

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Vollketten #1001 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 13:59

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View PostImperator_Gallogrecia, on Jun 27 2013 - 03:22, said:

*snip
the hull is made up of sheets of metal that are assembled together (the metals used in the examples are weak and stainless steel the real metal has not been decided yet) the metal is bonded in corners and by nails to make the box. the diminsions od the designs are in blueprints N. 7073, 7074
*snip
That's very odd, using stainless steel as armour is more akin to body armour than military vehicles of the era. I would have thought that they would just make it out of mild-steel like normal prototypes rather than stainless steel which is very expensive.

I had previously (based on a photo with two 'crew' next to it that it was a cramped two man vehicle who would ride 'nut to butt' as it were but it looks more like a motorized infantry shield now rather than a true vehicle. There are many such infantry shields from Britain, USA, Russia and Japan but this is the first motorized one I have ever heard of.

Vollketten #1002 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 14:44

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Here's a puzzle for you:
Posted Image
Gun is on the wrong side of the hull but image is not reversed as writing is correct. I can only assume the artist took a small licence with the M11/39.

Vollketten #1003 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 15:16

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View PostVollketten, on Jun 26 2013 - 21:59, said:

ahem: (this as well?)
It is a study of number plates and manufacture of Italian military vehicles
http://www.targheita...io_esercito.pdf and this
http://www.targheita...io_esercito.pdf
Both of these could be vital documents as they list exact numbers and nomenclatures of vehicles in service. Looks very promising. (Definitely includes some new vehicles such as M3A3 Stuart and Panzer IIIG)
Dammit, copied the same link twice: I mean this document:
http://www.targheita...i_corazzati.pdf

I took a rough list of the WoT eligible vehicles from his concise list:
Schenider M16 (1917), Renault FT-17 (1918), Fiat 2000 (1917), Fiat 3000A, Fiat 3000B, Vicker Carden Loyd Mk VI
CV.29, L.3/33, L.3/35, M.11/39, M.13/40, M.14/41, M.15/42, L.6/40, P.26/40, Renault R.35, Somua S.35
Panzer IIIN, Panzer IIIG, Panzer IVH, T34, M1 Tank (with bulldozer blade), M3A3 Stuart, M4A1 Sherman
M24 Chaffee, M44, M26 Pershing, M47 Patton, M48A2, M60A1 (under licence), Leopard A1/A5 (1970)
Semovente: L.3 da 47/32, L.40 da 47/32, M40 da 75/18, M42 da 75/34, M42L da 105/25, M43 da 149/40
M41 da 75/18, M41M da 90/53, M42 da 75/18, Stug IIIG, M10 Wolverine, M18, Sexton 11 da 105/23
M7 Priest da 105/22, M44 da 155/23, M55 da 203/25, M36/M36B1, M110 da 203, M107 da 175/60,
M109/M109L da 155/25

Which on first glance gives, new artillery, tank destroyer and medium tank options

Edited by Vollketten, Jun 27 2013 - 15:41.


Vollketten #1004 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 16:22

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Leopard 1 being delivered to the Italian Army
Posted Image

Vollketten #1005 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 16:43

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edit

Edited by Vollketten, Oct 27 2017 - 20:49.


rivit #1006 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 18:17

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Ok, I found this book within the scrib link ,at the bottom, for the Motomitragliatrice (MIAS) link you provided on pg.50 post #990. It brought me to another scribd book, at the bottom of the page, called Manganoni Armi Da Fouco Portatili Vol.2 Tavole, Carlo Manganoni. In the scribd book on Pg. 56 there's a Pavesi wheeled tractor, some St. Chamond chassis, and a Tipo Christie Suspension for a Spg. There's also a S.Chamond Spg on pg.31
Link on pg 50 post #1009. Your thread broke 1000 post, congrats Vollk.

Edited by rivit, Jan 31 2014 - 15:58.


LAV25OG #1007 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 18:23

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Why not a Spanish Tree, or a Turkish Tree? Or even a Argentine Tree?

We got a dago medal for killing arty. A dago tree would end at tier 4.  They got all the credit they deserve already.

rivit #1008 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 18:43

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View PostVollketten, on Jun 27 2013 - 15:16, said:

Dammit, copied the same link twice: I mean this document:
http://www.targheita...i_corazzati.pdf

I took a rough list of the WoT eligible vehicles from his concise list:
Schenider M16 (1917), Renault FT-17 (1918), Fiat 2000 (1917), Fiat 3000A, Fiat 3000B, Vicker Carden Loyd Mk VI
CV.29, L.3/33, L.3/35, M.11/39, M.13/40, M.14/41, M.15/42, L.6/40, P.26/40, Renault R.35, Somua S.35
Panzer IIIN, Panzer IIIG, Panzer IVH, T34, M1 Tank (with bulldozer blade), M3A3 Stuart, M4A1 Sherman
M24 Chaffee, M44, M26 Pershing, M47 Patton, M48A2, M60A1 (under licence), Leopard A1/A5 (1970)
Semovente: L.3 da 47/32, L.40 da 47/32, M40 da 75/18, M42 da 75/34, M42L da 105/25, M43 da 149/40
M41 da 75/18, M41M da 90/53, M42 da 75/18, Stug IIIG, M10 Wolverine, M18, Sexton 11 da 105/23
M7 Priest da 105/22, M44 da 155/23, M55 da 203/25, M36/M36B1, M110 da 203, M107 da 175/60,
M109/M109L da 155/25

Which on first glance gives, new artillery, tank destroyer and medium tank options
The two other potential Semoventes on that Page the Semovente M110 da 203, >1955 , QTY: 26, Radiati >1990
And the Semovente M107 Da 175/60, 1963 , Quantity  340 Radiati .
I've never heard of these, These sound like something new.

rivit #1009 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 18:58

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http://www.scribd.co...-Da-Fuoco-Porta

Here's the link to the Book called ARMI DA FUOCA PORTATILI E MATERIALI D' ARTIGLIERIA vol. II TAVOLE , Carlo Manganoni

Edited by rivit, Jun 27 2013 - 19:01.


rivit #1010 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 19:14

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View PostLAV25OG, on Jun 27 2013 - 12:23, said:


Why not a Spanish Tree, or a Turkish Tree? Or even a Argentine Tree?
We got a dago medal for killing arty. A dago tree would end at tier 4. They got all the credit they deserve already.
Don't want to hear it, nobody cares.
you're a sad, boring, unoriginal poster. You're a poster child of why they should have school all year round for sad, boring, unoriginal posters.
If it was up to me I would cast all the sad, boring, unoriginal, posters into a forum Negative Zone for all eternity. That way you wouldn't be able to infect everyone else with you borumness.

Edited by rivit, Jan 31 2014 - 15:59.


rivit #1011 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 19:26

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View PostVollketten, on Jun 27 2013 - 07:59, said:


That's very odd, using stainless steel as armour is more akin to body armour than military vehicles of the era. I would have thought that they would just make it out of mild-steel like normal prototypes rather than stainless steel which is very expensive.
I had previously (based on a photo with two 'crew' next to it that it was a cramped two man vehicle who would ride 'nut to butt' as it were but it looks more like a motorized infantry shield now rather than a true vehicle. There are many such infantry shields from Britain, USA, Russia and Japan but this is the first motorized one I have ever heard of.
Its like a fore- father to the mobile infantry battle suit. Not world of tank material, but still a great find.
I noticed under Armamento it had a optional Brixia 45 con bombe da kg.0.5. Sounds like the Brixia 45mm mortar/grenade launcher.
Also, the vehicle traveled between 2.2 km/hr - 4.7 km/hr

Edited by rivit, Jan 31 2014 - 15:59.


Vollketten #1012 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 19:46

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View PostLAV25OG, on Jun 27 2013 - 18:23, said:

Why not a Spanish Tree, or a Turkish Tree? Or even a Argentine Tree?

We got a dago medal for killing arty. A dago tree would end at tier 4.  They got all the credit they deserve already.
I'm struggling to think of a reason not to -1 your unthoughtout insulting, provocative and pointless post.

Vollketten #1013 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 19:47

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View Postrivit, on Jun 27 2013 - 19:26, said:

Its like a fore- father to the mobile infantry battle suit. Not world of tank material, but still a great find.
I noticed under Armamento it had a optional Brixia 45 con bombe da kg.0.5. Sounds like the Brixia 45mm mortar/grenade launcher.
Also, the vehicle  traveled between 2.2 km/hr - 4.7 km/hr
Yes, not really suitable as a 'tank' as the 'driver' has to walk behind it as it is propelled like a lawnmower. Shame.

Vollketten #1014 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 19:56

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View Postrivit, on Jun 27 2013 - 18:43, said:

The two other potential Semoventes on that Page the Semovente M110 da 203, >1955 , QTY: 26, Radiati >1990
And the Semovente M107 Da 175/60, 1963 , Quantity  340 Radiati .
I've never heard of these, These sound like something new.
They aren't TD Semoventi though they are artillery.
M107:
Posted Image
M110:
Posted Image

I actually thought the M109L was a better choice as it had an Italian refitted gun (155/39) as a tier X Artillery for the Italian tree,
Posted Image

sp15 #1015 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 19:58

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View PostVollketten, on Jun 27 2013 - 16:43, said:

Obviously the tree can move about a bit to accommodate new vehicles and the name changes we will need.
  • So basically with several new vehicles we can actually complete a whole tree tier 1 to 10 for every branch with only ONE ficticious but plausaible vehicle (the Tier X TD). The biggest problem would then be the Tier 9 heavy GL-4. Although it did exist the stats are very unusual and the armour would be poor irrespective of its given weight.
  • I want some thoughts on the possibility of putting in an Italian M48 as a Tier IX heavy and shoving the GL-4 down to a decently statted tier 6 or some such which would mean less contentious stat invention than as a tier IX.
  • As a tier 9 the M48 would have excellent (tier X) armour and decent mobility but the rather lackluster tier 8 gun. It would give the tree better flow technically and in the historical time sense too. What do people think?
well it would make more sense than the gl4
and while im on the topic of the gl4 first off i doubt it even could be implimented with those 4 tracks.
and even if that wasnt a problem the armour wouldnt be great, what was the most heavily armoured tank designed at that time?
well i dont actually know but i doubt it would have more armour than 100 mm.
thus i belive that the gl4 would have max 80 mm of frontal armour (and thats pushing it)

the m48 is however already in the american tree...and as a tier 10 medium...and the panther 2 is a german medium.
frankly most of the heavy tanks are on the light side and would make better mediums than heavys.

also there is a lack of original italian designs when we look at the higher tiers...
italy does not have any original designs (that fit the wot timeline anyhow 1917-1965) that could reach higher than tier 8. (pherhaps the TDs could?)

i really have to conclude that italy does not have enough original designs for a full tree.
what a full tree would require is to use american tanks already in the game as the high tier mediums & heavys...

and i know that while this is possible do we really want another china?
i mean it wouldnt be as bad but still.

also the tree contains some vehicles that i dont think could work in the game such as the Schenider M16 and the Fiat 2000 (sorry rivit)
i guess the fiat 2000 could work in theory due to the turret but there is no gun depression and its huge and even with multi gun support the guns all over the thing would be reallt akward to controll



im sad to say it but the lack of original italian projects after ww2 makes me think the italian tree is undesirable for wot.
im sure however that the italian tanks will play a important part in the european tech tree.

but hey the italians were one of the more famous nations in ww2 so pherhaps there is still hope.

Vollketten #1016 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 20:17

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edit 

 


Edited by Vollketten, Oct 27 2017 - 20:50.


rivit #1017 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 20:18

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You're right the M107 L would make a better spg . I didn't know the gun was Italian. So that should qualify as a modified vehicle.

Edited by rivit, Jan 31 2014 - 16:01.


Dr_Hal_Otacon_Emmerich #1018 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 20:28

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View PostLAV25OG, on Jun 27 2013 - 18:23, said:

Or even a Argentine Tree?

http://forum.worldof...ne#entry4621949

Imperator_Gallogrecia #1019 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 20:29

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hay guys did u forget what i said yesrerday about the chassis the GL-4 used? it was used on modern tanks that were heavies,superheaves,arty,and tds-------- so the point of that is we can put a engine from that tier in maybe american or german and make it heavier,better armoured,and derferent modules, it would still be realistic bc the chassis/suspension could hold that.

also if we dont decide to do that then it could play like a caenaveron a fast heavy with accurate and powerful guns like a heavy medium and sinse the guns and mobility,manuverability are good enough it would be a good support roled heavy tank at tier 8 no reason to take it off that. it would be like a shot gun in real life quick in blows every one up one shot (two bc of 2 guns) and leave


you guys are forgeting the triangle armour,mobility,armarment to have any of them you have to draw from somewhere else  tey made a moblie and good gunned heavy drawing from armour so instead of 100mm armour they mad a very sloped 80mm.....you all just need to calm down

EDIT!! im pretty sure that td i talked about was 100t to we could add armour if we needed to there is no info it woulda had to be made up anyways now we have a guideline

Edited by Imperator_Gallogrecia, Jun 27 2013 - 20:40.


Imperator_Gallogrecia #1020 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 20:29

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and do u want me to translate those other 2-3 pages of the mias? or is it out?




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