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Italian Tanks and Military Vehicles

italian tank tree heavy medium light tank destroyer artillery semovente carro armato

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sp15 #1021 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 20:45

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View PostImperator_Gallogrecia, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:29, said:

hay guys did u forget what i said yesrerday about the chassis the GL-4 used? it was used on modern tanks that were heavies,superheaves,arty,and tds-------- so the point of that is we can put a engine from that tier in maybe american or german and make it heavier,better armoured,and derferent modules, it would still be realistic bc the chassis/suspension could hold that.

also if we dont decide to do that then it could play like a caenaveron a fast heavy with accurate and powerful guns like a heavy medium and sinse the guns and mobility,manuverability are good enough it would be a good support roled heavy tank at tier 8 no reason to take it off that. it would be like a shot gun in real life quick in blows every one up one shot (two bc of 2 guns) and leave


you guys are forgeting the triangle armour,mobility,armarment to have any of them you have to draw from somewhere else  tey made a moblie and good gunned heavy drawing from armour so instead of 100mm armour they mad a very sloped 80mm.....you all just need to calm down

the point the russian article made was that the gl4 would have used hydropneumatic suspension.(not chassis)
it didnt use some magical chassi family designed by the italians in the 30s and later used by sweden and japan.
if you take one look at any of the tanks mentioned you can clearly see the chassis are completely different.

and lets keep in mind that it was a italian tank designed in the 1930s so first the armour would likely be ...crap 80mm max
and also putting german or other foreign engines in it is complete madness unless you find a source that indicates that this was considered
and if you are suggesting engines from after the 1930s id like to inform you that that will not happen


sorry but im trying to put a end to misinformation and fantasy specs in this thread

Vollketten #1022 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 20:48

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http://www.scribd.co...ts-Series-No-37Page 19
Check out the maneuverability, a 45 degree slope could be navigated by the Semovente 75/18.

http://www.scribd.co...-www-jgokey-com
A great selection of guns mounted on trucks which if needs be can serve as additional SPG, TD or tank gun options.

http://www.scribd.co...ian-Light-Tanks
http://www.scribd.co...ium-Heavy-Tanks
Photo collection of Surviving Italian tanks

http://www.scribd.co...e-No-14-M-13-40Page 8
Says the Semoventi 149/12 had studies using a 149/13 gun as well so this will be a historically acceptable gun option as well now.

Vollketten #1023 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 20:49

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View PostImperator_Gallogrecia, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:29, said:

and do u want me to translate those other 2-3 pages of the mias? or is it out?
no it has to be out sadly, I meant this:
http://www.targheita...i_corazzati.pdf

Imperator_Gallogrecia #1024 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 20:52

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View Postsp15, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:45, said:

the point the russian article made was that the gl4 would have used hydropneumatic suspension.(not chassis)
it didnt use some magical chassi family designed by the italians in the 30s and later used by sweden and japan.
if you take one look at any of the tanks mentioned you can clearly see the chassis are completely different.

and lets keep in mind that it was a italian tank designed in the 1930s so first the armour would likely be ...crap 80mm max
you ignored my other point, sinse it has no armour it makes up for it in other areas, as for the engines that thing must be massive to be longer then naval guns so t could support almost any engine, furthermore the stats HAVE to be made up because all we have is the basic design idea and a sketch of what its supposed to look like

Life_In_Black #1025 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 20:53

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Vollketten, the Swedish can make two branches to Tier 10 without any captured or foreign vehicles. One light-medium-heavy, and one TD. And the only Swedish vehicle that would need to be created would be the 28ton KRV, which would be based off of the original 1951 proposals for the project as well as the completed KRV testbeds. So even that would be completely historical. You can't really say the same about Italy. I could see if these foreign vehicles were Italianized in some way, but near as I can see, most of them haven't. And without all of these foreign vehicles, Italy can't make an entire tech tree.

Vollketten #1026 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 20:54

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View Postsp15, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:45, said:

the point the russian article made was that the gl4 would have used hydropneumatic suspension.(not chassis)
it didnt use some magical chassi family designed by the italians in the 30s and later used by sweden and japan.
if you take one look at any of the tanks mentioned you can clearly see the chassis are completely different.

and lets keep in mind that it was a italian tank designed in the 1930s so first the armour would likely be ...crap 80mm max
and also putting german or other foreign engines in it is complete madness unless you find a source that indicates that this was considered
and if you are suggesting engines from after the 1930s id like to inform you that that will not happen-I will be happier with a tier VI GL-4 for some of those reasons.

sorry but im trying to put a end to misinformation and fantasy specs in this thread-What fantasy? You may have a bee in your bonnet about a Swedish tank line which I happen to agree with but you'll find that as a rule everything is referenced and checked.


rivit #1027 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 20:56

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View PostImperator_Gallogrecia, on Jun 25 2013 - 23:40, said:


http://www.aviarmor....ansaldo_gl4.htm
says the GL-4 was based on the оригинальная четырехгусеничная ходовая, aka chetyrehgusenichnaya original suspension/chasis
http://translate.goo...iw=1077&bih=702
this page says that these tanks are based on that chassis/sespension or similar ones " Object 279 are Japanese tank Type 74 and the Swedish Stridsvagn 103" so in technicality the Gl-4 can draw any stats,modules and armour shapes from those tanks.
A forum on italian tanks lots of good info http://www.ww2incolo...-tanks-and-AFVs
to much to post about with guns and different variants of tanks we already know about
and what tank is this?
I haven't forgotten, its just that we became a little sidetracked. The photo of the vehicle is a Chassis of a M13/40, but the turret looks slightly off or different. I'm not sure if its because the bushes are covering it . The gun mantlet looks all wrong compared to a real m13/40 turret, but I can't be sure.
It does say the GL-4 suspension was used for something named in Russian. I have no Idea what that is. I'll try Google translate.

Edited by rivit, Jan 31 2014 - 16:04.


Vollketten #1028 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 20:56

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View PostLife_In_Black, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:53, said:

Vollketten, the Swedish can make two branches to Tier 10 without any captured or foreign vehicles. One light-medium-heavy, and one TD. And the only Swedish vehicle that would need to be created would be the 28ton KRV, which would be based off of the original 1951 proposals for the project as well as the completed KRV testbeds. So even that would be completely historical. You can't really say the same about Italy. I could see if these foreign vehicles were Italianized in some way, but near as I can see, most of them haven't. **** And without all of these foreign vehicles, Italy can't make an entire tech tree.
Actually the Swedish line looks fairly decent on the face of it from that thread and I supported it but you don't try and big that one up by disparaging this one.


***** and if you read it you would see that the German vehicles which I'm sure you are reference to were to be made under licence as discussed at length, US vehicles were also to be made under licence and had significant changes to them as well so I don't really see the relevance. Considering Swedens beligerance during WWII I find its tree far less likely to come in as an Italian one and that if you truly want a Swedish or a Czech tree for that matter you need to be on board and help push for an Italian one before WG simply picks and chooses and absorbs half a dozen from all over the place, throws a few Swiss vehicles in and produces an abhorrent Euro tree.

Edited by Vollketten, Jun 27 2013 - 21:00.


Imperator_Gallogrecia #1029 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 21:03

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View PostLife_In_Black, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:53, said:

Vollketten, the Swedish can make two branches to Tier 10 without any captured or foreign vehicles. One light-medium-heavy, and one TD. And the only Swedish vehicle that would need to be created would be the 28ton KRV, which would be based off of the original 1951 proposals for the project as well as the completed KRV testbeds. So even that would be completely historical. You can't really say the same about Italy. I could see if these foreign vehicles were Italianized in some way, but near as I can see, most of them haven't. And without all of these foreign vehicles, Italy can't make an entire tech tree.
on are current (emphasize on the current tech tree) we have the med line going all the way, light going from 1-7 i think into a the med line two ways,heavy line can go to tier 9,tds can go to tier 9, arty goes the whole tree minus 3,4,5 i think. point is the tree is fully satisfying if they can make a chinese tree i think they can make a italian tree with 10 non italian tanks and 5 of those being able to be taken out not effecting the tree in anyway

Edited by Imperator_Gallogrecia, Jun 27 2013 - 21:03.


Imperator_Gallogrecia #1030 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 21:06

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View PostImperator_Gallogrecia, on Jun 05 2013 - 22:04, said:

Posted Image
what tank does this soviet tank remind you of???
http://www.subsim.co...ad.php?t=186618
my guess 17 guns
20 meters high and 60 meters long and about 15 meters wide
appebtly its smaller then a maus and is 60 tons according to the site... but look at the door and ladder there size aswell as the gun sizes wich would beg to differ that statment
doesnt this fit the description of the 7000 ton tank? i found it on a russian site

Vollketten #1031 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 21:09

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That was that daft Grotte design for which the GL-4 was some kind of entrant in the early Soviet super heavy days. True fantasy level stuff.

Imperator_Gallogrecia #1032 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 21:09

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View PostVollketten, on Jun 05 2013 - 13:45, said:

the M19/32 was also from their site but had some minor corroborative information and historical basis to justify it.
*I'm still pondering that semi-automatic 102mm gun.....I wonder if it would fit in the turret of a Panther. It would certainly fit into a Semovente.
ino i asked this already voketton but what happened to this info mabye the tier 8-9 gun and tank?

Imperator_Gallogrecia #1033 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 21:14

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Guglielmo Evangelista
PLATES OF ARMORED VEHICLES AND ARMOURED
INTRODUCTION
Unlike what happens with the other armed forces and armed corps Italians, on the tanks - as though
to a lesser extent, on other army vehicles - there is a very large bibliography and above
retain many images, things that have made fairly simple process research into their
plates.
Indeed, there are few examples in the current publications of special chapters on specific license plates of vehicles
armor, though still limited to a mention of the plate-type ignoring all the exceptions and
numbering.
An important contribution to this research has been given mainly from photographs because it is easy to see
live tanks and other armored vehicles, unless perhaps to live in the few areas of Italy where there are barracks
of tankers.
In fact, only in a fairly limited number of circumstances I could see up close armored vehicles:
sometimes they are exposed on the occasion of celebrations and, with a certain frequency encountered in
railway stations being still the most frequent rail to move over long distances.
Particularly rare is moving then meet on the streets: this is an inspiring moment in which
apparent all their might, but for the clutter and damage to the road surface is made possible because
these types of displacement are reduced to the maximum.
A good opportunity to see several all together was the military parade on June 2, in Rome, but
for many years this event seems to favor the most folkloric of the armed forces
rather than war - with soldiers singing or in historical uniforms - and parade ever
less vehicles: the first to disappear were those armored, followed gradually by all the others.
The basic models of tanks and armored adopted by the army in more than eighty years of their history are
been relatively few and each has a distinct individuality, on which the various authors have focused on
long, so long as they disquisito on their defects (usually several) and their use of war. Who
wishing to explore these issues suggest you consult the extensive published materials: although
the approach to this matter has been for me an inexhaustible source of surprises and it would be interesting
dwell on many topics, I will only mention those useful to give an idea of ​​the size and
the overall look of the park, even though I did not have the heart to leave out lots of interesting: after all, for
the avid plates, the next step is to learn more about the vehicles on which they are mounted.
The armored vehicles have always been produced in multiple versions due to further refinement and model
basis alongside special models (for the types of the last war we remember the flamethrower, the wagons and radio
command as well as the modern gettaponte, those recovering from damaged media and versions for Genius
Pioneers). Even in these cases, normally, there will deal with these subseries that have no relevance
for enrollment, but it is more important to retrace the events that have marked the evolution of the
means because they often have coincided with the application of a different set of license plates.
I also want to apologize in advance, as usual, for any inaccuracies relating to acronyms
identification and characteristics of the various models, but it was a matter to which I have
approached for the first time and it is one thing to explore the theme of the plates, and it is one thing to improvise
experts tanks.
E 'to be remembered, finally, that the life cycle of a tank is extremely long, at least in relation to the
other types of vehicles, and to talk today about half built over twenty years ago, in turn conceived another ten years
first is a completely normal thing and then as a model that its external conditions make it difficult
determine the age at first sight of a plate
SOME 'OF HISTORY OF ITALIAN FORCES ARMORED
Apart from a few prototype armored acquired since the time of the war in Libya and the small core
experimental during the First World War, it can be said that the birth of the specialty tankers
takes place in the '20s, with the construction of tanks type followed by the Fiat 3000 light tanks, small
size, especially developed by Ansaldo tankettes modeled on the British.
Throughout the decade 1930-1940 the entire Italian armored force remained limited to getting older Fiat 3000,
the few armored AB 611, the design a bit 'more modern but largely diverted to the colonies and
the Police, and the light tanks, reproduced in more subsets and in many specimens, probably with the
belief that their number could make up for the laughable quality of war, which were manifested in all
their modesty during operations in Spain.
In practice it was with these means alone, often elderly and totally inadequate that we faced War
world. On paper it was a park four-digit probably gave pride and security
some general, but that proved to be a poor thing compared to the great American and British tanks (against
the latter in Sicily we could not do anything other than deploy the now twenty-Fiat 3000) .... and the courage and
the skill of the crew was able to make up for little.
During the conflict finally entered service in tanks and armored cars and light and medium concept
modern, and were also made several self-propelled artillery pieces.
These means were joined also by self-protected, armored trucks equipped with a complete and
be used in support tasks to the armored forces.
They returned to be produced even the autocannoni, already popular during the Great War and then almost
disappeared, which consisted of pieces of artillery mounted on a truck tanks kept
mobility and offensive potential, but that they had no protection.
In addition to the types regularly adopted and mass-produced, there was a whole long series of experimental vehicles whose
production, for technical reasons or shortage of raw materials or the occurrence of the armistice, he did not go
beyond prototypes or merely very few units. In view of this disparate means deserve mention the
cingolette (notes types in 2800 and OARE) kind of small and armored tracked vehicles for the transport of materials,
sometimes with weapons, perhaps some specimens were actually to be assigned to some
department, but it seems that no one has received a plaque.
Of all these buildings during the war, despite the haste of the projects and the difficulty of each
type, there were achievements truly valuable and highly regarded even if these views
the impossibility of building too many series and the overall progress of the operation, not enough
certainly change the outcome of the conflict.
After 8 September 1943, the Italian armored forces had virtually no history in the South there is a lottery
what little they had survived the African front, and with a few units that were stationed in Italy in
South at the time of the Armistice: with the great Allied tanks at the forefront, our tanks were
intended for simple tasks behind the lines, especially the training.
In the Italian Social Republic continued production and development of more modern types entered service
until the eve of the armistice, which was initiated between that of the excellent P 26/40, which until then existed only at the
the prototype stage, but the Italian production of armored in 1944-45, however, not numerically
indifferent, all intended for the German army was practically no benefit to the departments of CSR
who remained largely equipped with the few means light and outdated inherited from the dissolution of
Royal Army.
The losses caused by the conflict of wagons were enormous: in addition to those destroyed by armed conflict a big
number was captured by the British in North Africa and an even greater number - at least 970
units - by the Germans after September 8, 1943: in both cases were retrofitted and incorporated into the
park opponent who, ironically enough, it remained very satisfied.
Italy also put online a number of wagons from the war booty French, generously
regalatici by the Germans, as well as some Russian tank captured on the eastern front remains to be seen whether these
means, however, that only took part in regular use in our army, were actually
registered and have received the normal plates: in fact, at least in the photographs that I have known, I
are always free.
After the war, in 1945 and for a brief period after the Italian Army was
practically devoid of tanks worthy of the name: in front of the rapid progress made by these means
in a few years getting bigger and bigger, powerful and sophisticated, we were in possession only of the types of
national implementation designed at the beginning of the conflict, if not before: a few, worn, heterogeneous, and
completely overcome by the technical point of view and military.
It did not take long, however, that the park began to be renovated for the sale of cars
Armed British and Americans. Of the national park of origin war remained in service until only a few units
the early 50s, especially the types L / 6, presumably because these small wagons filled the niche of
light vehicles for which the Allies, interested in other strategies and other operational theaters, they had never
designed any vehicle of this kind. Our national armored poor, unfit for war
Modern, whose mediocre characteristics were already apparent during the last stages of the second
World War II, continued to be used in training or were deployed during the
violent riots in the streets of those years, in part under the banner of the police, but most were started to
demolition and began the era of the tanks from the United States and, to a smaller extent, English;
at first we were sold second-hand, and it was not until the late '50s because they cease
deliveries of ERW and arrived a few specimens of a more modern, more and origin
U.S..
Among the material cedutoci by the Allies deserve a mention also tracked the British light type Bren Carrier,
already present in some Italian units since the period of the war of liberation. Were classified cingolette
and had a fairly good use in the postwar period (perhaps there seemed true to be able to get their hands on something
that remind us to close the much loved fast cars a few years before).
Overall all the material from abroad consisted of quite a number of assorted
models, sometimes assigned in a limited amount of copies.
At the time of registration can not be excluded that in the cases of all these vehicles former American and British
plates have been made in separate batches assigned to each type, interspersed with series of numbers does not
used: despite not having evidence, in fact I found some gaps in the progression of numbering,
which however could be attributed simply to the fact that these were occupied by means
have had a shorter life span, of which did not survive the memory or of which there are images.
Finally, after 1970, the composite park was modernized and unified with the new models, most
part of national design and construction: the Leopard tanks and armored cars as well as Aries
Centaur, 6614 and Puma.
Quantity of the most important types of tanks and armored vehicles in service:
1974 2002
M47 800 -
M60 200 -
Leopard 200,920
Centaur - 400
6614-57
Self Propelled? 308
M 113 3300 1720
VCC - 1794
LIST OF ARMOURED VEHICLES, SECURITY DOORS AND PROTECTED IN THE SERVICE OF THE ARMY
ITALIAN
The following list has been extracted from various official sources and should be virtually complete. In
generally have not been considered by the numerous experimental pieces that never were adopted.
The units for which it is referred to as 1943-45 year of construction apply to the period after the 8th
September, 1943: only very few of these were incorporated into the army of CSR or the GNR, while in
were largely intended for the German Army. The data in this period may not be complete.
Armoured Car
Years Radiation Units
Fiat Arsenal 1912 2 1923 automitragliatrice on Fiat chassis
15a
Bianchi 30hp 1913 1 1923 automitragliatrice
Isotta Fraschini RM 1913 1 1917 Automitragliatrice. Captured
by the Austrians
Bianchi 1915 1 1923 automitragliatrice
Bianchi "Pallanza" 1916 1 1923 automitragliatrice
1915 20 * 34 delivered to the Police
1917 17 *
Lancia IZM
1918 84 *
Lanchester 1917 2> 1926 To Libya
Type Terni or 12 * For the 1918 Tripoli Libya. Fiat chassis 15b
AB 611 1935 48 1941
AB 1941 40 24? **
AB 41 1941 250 **
1942 302 **
AB 1943 43 72 **
1943-45216 ** Including even some AB 41
Vespa Caproni-1942 1 * Prototype of armored cars
slight
Lynx 1943-45207 ** Delivered in almost every period
CSR. Only very few specimens
received by the Royal Army.
AS 37 1941-42 150 * Truck protected. Even in
wagon version radio
1942 20 1954
1943 166
AS 42-43
1943-45 15
Camionetta Saharan Africa. The 7
survivors of the conflict were
then transferred to the Police
Viberti 41 1941 few
these forthcoming
Truck protected
Fox 1942 Ex Canadian
T17E1 Staghound 1941> Former English
Former U.S. M8 Greyhound 1943-44
Humber Mk 1943-44 Former English
Fiat 6614/6616 70 57? -
Centaur 8x8 1987> 400 -
Puma 6634 4x4 2001> 330 -
Puma 6636 6x6 2001> 250 -
Renault VAB Reco NBC 90 <20 - _ Vehicle service
NBC
TANKS
Years Radiation Units
Schneider M16 1917 1> 1924 Former French
Renault FT17 1925c 1918 4. Former French
Fiat 2000 1917 2> 1924
Fiat 3000A
mod.1921 (L5/21)
1921-23100 *
Fiat 3000B
mod.1930 (L5/30)
1930 52 *
Vickers Carden Loyd
Mk VI
1929 4 Wagons faster - prototypes English
CV 29 1930 21 Wagons fast
1933-40 1320
1942 52
CV 3/33, 3/35
(L3/33, 3/35)
1943 32
Light tanks
M 11/39 1937-40100 * Only 6 units survived the
Campaign in North Africa
M13/40 1940 235
1941 505
L6/40 1941 to 43,432 in 1951
1943-45 47
M14/41 1941 376
1942 368
1941 1
1942 104
1943 160
M15/42
1943-45166
P 26/40 1941 1
1943-45 98
Renault R35 1935-40109 Former French war booty.
Delivered in 1941
Somua S.35 1935 33 Former French war booty.
Delivered in 1941
Former German PzKpfw IIIN 1943 12 returned 8/9/43
Former German PzKpfw IIIG 1943 12 returned 8/9/43
Former German PzKpfw IVH 1943 12 returned 9/8/43
T 34 1940-45 Former USSR war booty
Gettaponte Valentine 2 ^ GM Former British handed over 1946-47
M1 Tank mounting
bulldozer
1942-43 some 1975c. Former USA
M 3A3 Stuart 1941-44 former USA
M 4A1 Sherman 1942-45 delivered ex USA 1947-1952
M 24 Chafee 1944-45 former U.S. delivered 1950
M 44 1944-45 former USA
1944-45 M 26 Pershing former U.S. delivered 1953
32 M from 1944-45 former U.S. recovery
M 74 1951 by former U.S. recovery hull M 4A3
Patton M 47 1952-71 1500 1990 1952 delivered ex USA
M 47 gettaponte 1966-74 former USA
M 48A2 1955-60 15 ex USA delivered only to
Carabinieri
1960 M 60A1> 300 ex USA 200 built in Italy on
license
Leopard A1, A5 70 920 -
"Gettaponte 1985 64 -
"Pioneer 1985 40 -
"Recovery from 1971> 136 -
Aries 1999/01 300 -
SELF-PROPELLED ARTILLERY
Years Quantity
Propelled L 3 47/32 1939 1 prototype - hull L 3
Propelled L 40 47/32 1942-43282 hull L 6/40
1943-45150
Self-propelled M 40 75/18 1941 M 60 hull 13/40
Self-propelled M 41 to 75/18 1942 162 Hull M 14/41
Propelled by M 41M 90/53 1942 M 30 hull 14/41
1942 2
1943 188
Self-propelled M 42 from 75/18
1943-45175
Hull M 15/42
1942 1
1943 61
Self-propelled M 42 from 75/34
1943-45160
Hull M 15/42
Propelled by M 42L 105/25 1943 30
1943-45175
Hull M 15/42
Propelled by M 43 149/40 1941 1 prototype - hull M 15/42
Stu IIIg 1943 12 Former German. Refunded 08/09/43
Propelled by Sexton 11
105/22
1943 Former English. Struck 1970c.
7 Priest self-propelled M from
105/22
1942-45 many Ex USA
Self-propelled M 10 Wolverine 1942> Ex USA
Self-propelled M 18 1943-44 Ex USA
Self-propelled M 36 / M 36B1 1942-44 Ex USA
Self-propelled M 110 from 203> 1955 26 deletions> 1990
Propelled by M 107 175/60 ​​340 1963 struck> 1990
Propelled by M 44 155/23 1957 Former USA
Propelled by M 55 203/25 1963 Former USA
Propelled by M 109/M109L
155/25
1967> 260 still in production
OTHER TRACK
Years Quantity
Renault RH 31 Crawler ammunition. Ex
French war booty.
Delivered in 1942
Bren-Carrier 1939-42 "Cingolette." Former English
A1 White M2/M3/M5 1941-44 Ex USA. Existing version
semicingolata and rotated
AMX 12, 1959 a few fighting vehicle
A1/M106 M113 A1 1960> 8000 Vehicle transport and
combat. In the course of
radiation.
VCC1 / 2 1974> 1794 Vehicle armored
fight
VCC 80 2002 600 Armoured Vehicle by
fight
MLRS rocket launchers 1988-95 22
Amphibian LVTP7-AAV7 1972-83 15
* Conventionally the date of termination of service of these specimens is made to coincide with the 8
September, 1943: at that time a lot of material, outdated or in poor condition, was abandoned and not
more put back into service, or by the Royal Army, nor by CSR or its allies.
** The units of these series survived the war remained in service until the delivery of the first means
former Allies.
COLORING AND WRITTEN
It is a pretty complex subject that is out of our work: we will therefore to a
brief mention for completeness. Ordinarily all the material oldest was painted in gray-
or had mimetic patterns based yellow, brown, green and shades in different combinations to
second periods and theaters of operation; currently in service that is painted olive green,
while the means employed in UN operations are white. Some time ago I saw the crawler Carabinieri in
black or dark blue, but for many years I have no more sightings.
The armored vehicles then lead a whole host of information relating to the department, of their position or their
functions within it: those indications, which may consist of numbers or other symbols, they changed
often appearance and meaning depending on the era and the organization of the units.
GENERAL CHARACTERISTICS OF THE PLATES
One of the peculiarities of our armored vehicles is to be identified by real plates type
Automotive: in fact, in other countries, normally, all these vehicles do not carry any mark or
this type is limited to all or some letter or number painted on the bodywork.
In our case, subject to the necessary exceptions that will be seen later, tanks, armored cars and
vehicles have assimilated the normal license plate used by the Army, with the same colors (acronym in
red, white and black numbers), and dimensions (with written on two lines for the rear license plate and on
one line to the front).
Up to the Second World War the whole rear plates were "real" in the sense that they were regularly
consisting of a metal plate screwed into the hull since the war, since the introduction
of the American media, it is usual to paint the statue plates on the wagon.
The front, where present, have increasingly been painted. Exceptions belong all notes
specimens that were preserved and restored, and probably, as we shall see further, it is remakes of fantasy.
The trick to painting is probably justified the inappropriateness of applying a metal plate
the armor or the armor.
However, even the license plates "real" characters were painted, although very carefully, but never
printed and embossed.
Regarding the plates then there is a very important observation to do with the rest of the park
Army, of which only in specific cases obsolete vehicles are preserved from demolition,
armored many of the old type have survived and they are kept in good condition and sometimes
marching authorities, public and private, that are particularly commendable given footprint and
the costs of management of these means.
This fact, however, has implications for the delicate plates. Indeed, also in consideration that
on many specimens they are not constituted by a metal support but are just painted, in the
restoration it was decided to riverniciarne a facsimile, often without any concern "philological"
thus appearing characters and sizes, and especially fantasy numbers (even, if nothing else, we respect
always the pattern of four or six digits).
From here it is always very difficult to distinguish the genuine from the false number plates on all these relics, of which the
most reliable are those of a post-war held by the Army at the same barracks where they
served, who always retain the original and authentic license plate.
SIZE, SIZE AND posizoni
The prototypes of armored vehicles and armored Italians were an assorted group of dubious efficiency
made of armored vehicle frames from commercial built since the time of the war of
Libya, without that behind them was foreordained nor a construction program nor a philosophy of
use: such an attitude on the part of the military authorities did not change during the First World War,
despite the sale by the French of certain types of tank and construction of the wagon Fiat 2000
as well as the first real series of armored cars of Lancia chassis.
All of these models had no license plate, and he can be assured by the numerous pictures of them
shooting at any angle, with the exception of one of the type "Terni" or type "Tripoli", which appears with
ordinary car license plate: SM 14160.
To tell the truth all the vehicles mentioned above appear to lack, at least in origin, not only of plaque, but also
any kind of distinguishing mark, numbers or symbols: because, although numerically scarce, there were
service more samples with different characteristics, one wonders how you could distinguish them during the
operations and in all those cases in which there has had a chance to see the documents of
registration.
All of these means were removed from service since 1923 (except for the armored Lancia, several of
which arrived in good operating efficiency up to World War II), and it can be concluded that
until that moment was not the norm targarli: then in this aspect of the history of armored
begins only with the introduction of the plates with the initials RE and after the disappearance of the acronym s.m.
The first tanks to receive a plaque were the Fiat 3000: this, which probably dates from the second
mid-20s, had written on a single line - as, on the other hand, even license plates
of the time - with the initials Ro E.to, the number and the letter A that served to distinguish the license plates of tanks
(As if one did not see!).
The plates of this group are the only examples with the words on one line, because the next and
lightweight light tanks, built since 1929 - at least the units delivered in the first period -
had no license plate. In the mid-'30s, as was the number plates of other vehicles, including the Fiat
3000 appear to have received the normal number plates on two lines with the initials of the upper and the number of
the lower one. Disappears at this point, the letter A for not reappear again.
The size of the rear license plate of armor were, and are, similar to those of vehicle license plates
civil, however, while not lacking contrary examples, especially recent, it is a bit 'smaller,
feature already present at the time of license plates of metal and perpetuated with painted plates.
The position of the rear plate normally has always been on the left side, more or less towards the center
of the vehicle depending on the free space available on the various models.
On wagons Fiat 3000, given the cumbersome equipment which was located posteriorly, plate - a unique case - was
was arranged on the right side of the turret.
The front plate is located at the center of the front of the vehicle shifted downward, and its size with
time has changed: at first it was a bit 'bigger than civilian ones, then after the war became
substantially larger (especially higher). In recent times its size is substantially
similar to those civilians even if sometimes some are slightly higher.
There are also on some models rare examples of front plate divided into two parts because of the structure of the
hull that leaves no other possibility, with the symbol in the left section and the number to the right.
Anyway front plates are present on a regular basis only - and not always - since the war. In
before its application was very sporadic and does not appear anywhere on the carts and wagons Fiat 3000
fast.
And 'likely that during the war units that were at the front of the plaque was removed for
make it more difficult to recognize in the event of capture or reconnaissance of the enemy. There is also the photo
very clear picture of a tank with a small number (83) in the place where he was to be the license plate
rear.
All rear plates have, since their first application, the symbol of the tank drivers, that is, with a grenade
flame red, to the right of the code, the same height as the other characters, normally absent
the front plate. It 's always painted and never printed. Over time there have been more or less types
stylized.
The plates with the letters EI, where there also appears the stelletta see, the grenade is normally on the right
of the star and, more rarely and in smaller, above or below.
We conclude pointing out that, when it comes to plates of tanks, they always refer, even today,
those of the traditional type, that is to the rear that carry written on two lines, and the front ones that
have the size of about cm.25x5, with registration numeric-only, all features now
long since disappeared from the world of civil plates.
The perpetuation of this situation arises from the fact that has not been applied with the regulations of the Ministry of
Defense in April 1979 introduced the alphanumeric keypads with written on a single line, as it
was declared to be applicable only to vehicles of a commercial nature.
CHARACTERS OF WRITTEN
Printed in the types of characters before the war it was modern, easier to those with the "tails" of the
civil plates and similar to those of the other army vehicles with only occasional small differences in
detail of handwriting digits. In the Type-painted, of course, there has been a proliferation of models
arising from the various types of masks adopted, even if the differences are not so numerous as in
plates of the Navy, so that we can identify some characteristics constant, namely:
- Standard fonts that mimic those printed on the rear registration plates of normal vehicles, it is the
most common type
- Characters of the same type, but significantly smaller, while remaining the number plate of the dimensions
ordinary
- Characters elegant type, with the "tails" and other small refinements of style
- Characters with the "tails", but more simple and thicker than previous
- A series of fancy fonts, characterized by the inner space of the number 8 full. One
known example.
THE Armoured Car
Given that the events in terms of size and appearance are similar to those of the tanks, these
originally had the letter B final in place of A. While the tanks almost immediately lost the letter,
it seems that the armored mantenessero much longer, as well as maintained the plaque with the words
on a single line: in fact, the very small experimental armored cars of 1942 Vespa still bore a plaque
of this type with the inscription RE 779 B.
After the war the plate lost all their individuality and registrations are promiscuous to those of
armored without any distinction.
It seems that even armored cars were registered among all those vehicles such as trucks and vans
protected, produced in very limited especially in view of the campaign in North Africa. E 'found that
the first group product of AS 42 became part of the Group Saharan AS and they were assigned
plates from 790B to 794B and 797-798B. It should be noted that the Group were assigned organically
also have two trucks protected SPA AS 37 and another truck that seems to be ordinary targati
respectively 795-796B and 799B: I could not get confirmation of this news, but if things were
really so, we would have the only known example of plaques awarded by the department to which they belong
without regard to any traditional rule of registration.
On the other all vehicles Saharan represent an anomaly because they were not protected and therefore not
should have been considered in the allocation of armored vehicles and license plates should have been the
Regular accordingly: however, were treated as armed and armored car probably because employees
along with them.
It 'still in this regard that you have proof of the existence of false number plates: an AS 37 today
existing and restored the port number 797B RE: approximation to reality as you go close enough,
but the number 797 belonged, as we have seen before and as shown by documents of the time, to a
AS 43, a vehicle that looks and completely different characteristics.
THE NUMBERING SYSTEM UNTIL 1945
The first series of 100 cars Fiat 3000 which, as we have said, inaugurated plates RE xxx format
"Long", received the numbers from 1 onwards (the lowest known number is 34 A). The next batch,
delivered after some time, he continued the sequence from 100 onwards. The highest number is 186 A, higher
the number of vehicles built, which would denote some irregularity in the sequence.
In the 30s, however, we find them all recorded with a number from 1000 onwards: it would seem that, with
the establishment of the plate on two lines, it has been decided reimmatricolarli using only numbers with four digits;
then there was the registration of wagons L3, followed by gradually all of the following types: in
principle seems to follow the normal chronological order, although the photographs would be of
exceptions, but perhaps there may be errors in the determination of the number due to the lack of clarity
images or fancy plates of vehicles restored. From some elements can be deduced that it is still
likely that the allocation of number plates has been determined in advance in relation to brackets
the orders, but currently lacking sufficient data to better develop this hypothesis.
In this context, there are some doubts on the plates of the wagons L 3: there is a clear photograph dating without
possibility of error 1935, which contains a plaque with 3 L RE 16xx. The number, rather high, it would
then think that even then many of them, maybe all those hitherto entered into service, had
received a license plate. This, however, can not be reconciled with the fact that, especially in the period of the war in
Eastern Africa and that of Spain, but also on many other occasions, the photographs show them
unequivocally not targati. Maybe there was not to apply the plate if not a few occasions, but the
problem is still unclear.
A mirror of maximum could outline the situation of the license plate numbers assigned until 1943
although, at some points, the data are very approximate:
Years Unit Type Plates
Fiat 3000 and L3 <1940 1500C. RE 1000-2000
M 13 30 1940 RE 2001-2030
L 3 <1 940 470 RE 2031-2400
M 14 1941 100 RE 2401-2500
M 11 1940 100 RE 2501-2600
M 13 1940-41 700c. RE 2601-3550
P 40 1941 3562 1 RE
M 14 1941-42 100 RE 3501-3600
M40 self-propelled 1941 60 RE 3601-3660
M 15 1942 100 RE 3701-3800
L6 1941-42 300c. RE 3801-4100
M42 self-propelled 1942-43 280c. RE 4101-4600
M 14 1942 400 RE 4601-5000
M 15 1942-43 160 RE 5001-5200
M41 self-propelled 1942-43 200c. RE 5601-5800
I was not able to frame the self-propelled L 40, perhaps attributable to the sequence 5200-5600, together with the M
14 is not considered in the table.
I also know some plate with three-digit numbers, mounted on L 3 or even more modern vehicles,
on the reliability of which is impossible to say.
The plaque highest I know of is RE 6432 belonging to a self-propelled artillery delivered in 1943 and
7221 applied to a tank type not identified, but these plates raise problems,
Whereas it should assume, in case of numbering consequential from 1000 onwards,
the existence of more than 7000 vehicles, while in reality, at the most, they were made a little more than 4500. Perhaps the
numbers greater than 7000 were assigned to the means of war booty, provided that these have been
actually registered, but there is no evidence.
Are known a few tanks and self-propelled (all held for the purposes museum) with plates RE 10xxxxx. A part of the
usually doubt on the plates of imagination, could be among the few specimens remained in service in the
war and registered with the new six-digit license plate EI and, when restoration has been given an acronym changed
by EI RE to make it immediately apparent chronological period in which they entered service.
This provided that the six-digit license plate for the armor was not introduced between 1943 and 1946-47, during
the validity of the code R.E. but it seems unlikely: to what end (with all the problems that were then)
ritargare means that they had a regular plate? This is not always that we have wanted to rearrange, giving
new numbers, the existing park at the time, reduced to a few examples. Unfortunately, lack of examples
Photo of that period.
Less clear is the numbering system reserved for armored cars.
Very few information and pictures of armored plates in the war (the photographs that
portray to the front almost always show no plates), and also lacks any images of armored cars
AB 611 badged.
During the 1940-45 war some armored cars were converted into rail vehicles to patrol
lines, especially in the areas occupied by Yugoslavia, after receiving appropriate wheels to travel the
tracks.
They stayed with the normal pre-existing plaques.
From the limited data available, it may derive the following table, however, remains very vague:
Plaques Years Quantity Types
RE 1-150B 120c 1915-17. Lancia IZM units with plate number
72, 82, 83, and 85B lent
service up to Tianjin
8 .9.1943
RE 101-300B 200 1941 AB 43
RE 301-700B 1941-43400 AB 41
RE 701-900B 1941-43200 AS 42 and 43
RE 779B 1 1942 Vespa
RE 901-1400B 180 1943 AB 41 and 43
RE? 1943-45250 Lynx After the war, some still
kept in service
Army and Police
The self-protection are among the registered vehicles regularly rotated.
The license plate number of the lowest known is King 51B assigned to an armored car Lancia, while the highest is RE
1361B. Some have a plate AB43 RE greater than 1000 without the B final. Even in this case
would be in the presence of much larger numbers to specimens constructed but on the other hand, this is not a
novelty, because it is practically certain that the license plates of armored cars do not have a numbering
consequential.
Even for armored plates are known more than 100000, the authenticity of which is to be verified.
NUMBERING AFTER 1945
The period was characterized by the introduction of a six-digit numbering promiscuous armored cars and tanks
armed, which was the highest in the park military vehicles that then, and then for several
years, all brought a plate with just five digits.
However, as the new numbering of the plates of the Army after the war does not seem to
has provided four-digit numbers, one wonders why we have not continued to use yet
this type of numbering as was the case before 1943.
Anyway, the six-digit numbering was not unknown, because it had been widely adopted during
the war for the temporary registration of a heterogeneous set of vehicles of disparate origin.
Then the tanks and armored vehicles, whose number was reduced to a minimum, however, between, was reserved for the
sequence above 100000, separating even at first glance from those of their plates rotated by means
which, after all, they differed in every respect.
The first few numbers after 100000, probably not more than 100,500, were granted to few vehicles
domestic production survivors of the conflict, and they followed for many years the series of means cedutici
by the Allies.
The number 105000 was reached in the first half of the '50s, and 110000 at the beginning of the next decade,
coinciding with the delivery of the first M113.
In recent years, eliminating the heterogeneous material and reducing the park a few types of great efficiency, the
pace of registrations is slowed down, so that it is not yet been reached the sequence number
119000.
The numbering follows quite closely the normal temporal succession of acquisitions and
corresponds in principle to the number of vehicles entering service, but there is probably some
sequence is not assigned, as well as some other, after being at first skipped,
may have been reused later by altering the chronological order.
On the other hand, it is quite likely the assignment of numbers 9000 (from 110000 to 119000) in the last
forty years, with an annual rate of just over two hundred vehicles periodically renewed or newly
acquisition, it is less likely that in the fifteen years or so before they have been assigned 10000
(From 100000 to 110000), that an entry in the annual park of almost 700/2, a number widely
higher than those actually delivered and the real needs of our army.
However, even taking into account the already mentioned anomalies and gaps, the sequences assigned I
identified - no doubt susceptible of corrections - are as follows:
Sequence Type
EI 100000-100500 National prewar
EI 100501-101000 Armoured M 8
EI 101001-101800 Tank M 4A1
EI 100801-101900 Half-A1 M 3 White
EI 101901-102500 Tank M 4A1
EI 102501-103000 M 1 Tank bulldozer
EI 105001-105300 Tank M 24
EI 105301-105600 Tank M 44
EI 105601-105800 Propelled M 7
EI 106101-106500 Tank M 26
EI 106501-107000 Tank M 47
EI 107001-107100 Tank M 26
EI 107801-107900 Propelled 36B1 M
EI 107901-108000 Carro M 74 from recovery
EI 108001-108800 Propelled M 110
EI 108801-109000 Propelled M 109
EI 109001-110050 Tank M 47
EI 110051-102800 Propelled M 113/M106
EI 112801-113000 Tank M 60A1
EI 113001-115000 Propelled M 113/M106
EI 115001-115250 VCC half
EI 115251-115400 Tank M 60A1
EI 115401-115500 Propelled M 109
EI 115501-117100 Leopard Tank
EI 117101-117200 VCC half
EI 117201-117300 Propelled M 109
EI-11732x 11734x Amphibian LVTP7 AAV-7
EI 117351-117500 VCC half
EI 117501-117600 Armoured Centaur
EI 117601-117700 VCC half
EI 117701-117850 Fiat 6614/6616
EI 117851-118000 VCC half
EI 118001-118100 Fiat 6614/6616
EI 118101-118250 Leopard Tank
EI 118251-118300 Propelled M 109
EI-1183xx MLRS Rocket Launcher
EI 118301-118600 Armoured Centaur
EI 118601-118700 Fiat 6614/6616
EI 118701-118900 Tank Aries
EI-1189xx Reanult VAB Reco NBC

Vollketten #1034 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 21:16

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View PostImperator_Gallogrecia, on Jun 27 2013 - 21:09, said:

ino i asked this already voketton but what happened to this info mabye the tier 8-9 gun and tank?
Nothing happened to it, we could speculatively shove it into a Tiger or Panther II but to be historical I could find no evidence so far that it was ever mounted on a vehicle. It does not mean WoT couldn't choose to do so but the priority always has to be:
Nascent Italian designed vehicles, Italian built vehicles even if they are a foreign design, Modified or captured vehicles and finally speculative albeit realistic vehicles based upon design principles following the technological progression.
Other than the minor corroboration for the M19/32 I could find nothing but IF it was made up it was very well thought out as it seems to fit perfectly with in the technological and design scope of the era in my mind so I am quite happy with it.

Until one could adduce evidence that the Italians fitted or even considered fitting an auto or semi-auto (self-loading or some stuff) >100mm gun into a tank and especially a German tank the German butthurt would be enormous.

'Wa wa wa the Italians have an autoloader Tiger' etc...


**excellent stuff above BTW, thank you.**

Edited by Vollketten, Jun 27 2013 - 21:22.


sp15 #1035 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 21:28

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View PostVollketten, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:17, said:

I don't see why not, its not hydropneumatic or anything involving anything too complicated
it has 4 of tracks this is what really kills it.
there are other tanks in the game with more trecks than 2 (t95) but in the case of those the 2 tracks on one side count as one.
this would be imposible on the gl4 (without changeing the track layout)
and remember wg wont put in any vehicles with wheels (and i doubt they will put in a tank with 4 tracks wich are devided)

View PostVollketten, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:17, said:

-AMX 50-120 has armour 100/80/60 and makes up with other stats being in its favour. Armour has less and less relevance with the inevitable creep of higher and higher pen guns

on a heavy tank some armour is required
and you will notice that the heavy tanks that dont generally have other things that they compensate with such as speed & autoloaders
in the case of the gl4 it would likely be raw alpha damage but we dont even know the calibre of the guns.
not to mention that it would be really slow.

View PostVollketten, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:17, said:

- The Italians would have had the Panther II as a heavy though due to its weight. and as I pointed out the M48 starts with tier 8 gun which would hardly be excessive at tier 9.
fair enough but i think that it would be hard to make them unique from their already in game verisons.


View PostVollketten, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:17, said:

- I disagree and am frankly surprised coming from someone pushing for a Swedish tree...
the difference is that there are swedish tanks developed from the 1930s untill today and i have no problem (or very little problem) with finding Swedish original heavy, light and TD designs
the main problems with the tree are right now the arty line.
but even that could be fixed if i moved som stuff around.
i have a bunch of swedish tank designs left over you dont (well italian tank designs left over)

View PostVollketten, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:17, said:

-so?, it's historically accurate
well as i said it would be hard to make them feel unique

View PostVollketten, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:17, said:

- no, and we don't. Chinese tree has multiple copy and 'invented' tanks. Italy doesn't.
maby not to the same extent but the m48, m60, and a leopard 1 appears on the list and i think there are some french vehicles in there aswell. (could be wrong about that last one though)

View PostVollketten, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:17, said:

-Schneider has no problem being in game, it is slow but has decent tier armour and a fixed field gun rather akin to being a slow better hitpointed T-18
Fiat 3000 is probably one of the most iconic tanks ever so to have 'world' of tanks without it would be a joke.
the problem with the Schneider is first its french (i think)
second its gun layout it has no gun traverse to the left.
and i was under the impression that it had 2 guns (one on each side) this is not the case so i guess its possible to put it in.
and i seriously doubt the fiat 2000 could be made to work in the game (in my opinion)

View PostVollketten, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:17, said:

-I hope not. Unlike the vast majority of Europe they had a competent nascent tank building industry. 'Europe' is not a country and does not have flag to use (Remember Europe and the EU are not the same thing).
first i never stated that eu = europe im not that stupid.
and i dont really like the idea of a european tree myself.
id rather prefer smaller nation trees.
but i do see the necessity for it if for no other reason than to include more countries that didnt have enough material for their own tree.
i dont want a bunch of trees that after tier 6 have only russian tanks wich is what would happen if you would try to create a tree from tier 1 to 10 for certain nations.

but im getting of topic
i think there are enormus flaws with the european tree but if it dosnt happen these nations wont get included in the game so its sort of a necessary evil of sorts.

rivit #1036 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 21:28

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View PostLife_In_Black, on Jun 27 2013 - 14:53, said:


Vollketten, the Swedish can make two branches to Tier 10 without any captured or foreign vehicles. One light-medium-heavy, and one TD. And the only Swedish vehicle that would need to be created would be the 28ton KRV, which would be based off of the original 1951 proposals for the project as well as the completed KRV testbeds. So even that would be completely historical. You can't really say the same about Italy. I could see if these foreign vehicles were Italianized in some way, but near as I can see, most of them haven't. And without all of these foreign vehicles, Italy can't make an entire tech tree.
Uh, you can say the same about Italy. Just prior to the creation of this thread the Developers said they had a tier 8 and 9 for both Italy and Poland. They could be one step away from adding a upgraded gun for a tier 10, if they so choose (120/40mm 149/90)
The foreign vehicles are a treat, not a necessity.
Just because we haven't discussed the Teir 8,9 that WG found doesn't mean they don't exist. No one knows the details of what they found, Yet.

Edited by rivit, Jan 31 2014 - 16:05.


sp15 #1037 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 21:30

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View PostCSnakeV, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:28, said:


they have said Branch not tree
it may appear as a branch on the american tree

rivit #1038 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 21:31

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God, that was alot of translating work, GJ  Imperator

sp15 #1039 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 21:35

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View PostVollketten, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:54, said:

-What fantasy? You may have a bee in your bonnet about a Swedish tank line which I happen to agree with but you'll find that as a rule everything is referenced and checked.

im reffering to the gl4
thproblem is that we really dont know enough about it
and therefore assume things without historical backing.

Life_In_Black #1040 Posted Jun 27 2013 - 21:43

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View PostVollketten, on Jun 27 2013 - 20:56, said:

Actually the Swedish line looks fairly decent on the face of it from that thread and I supported it but you don't try and big that one up by disparaging this one.

***** and if you read it you would see that the German vehicles which I'm sure you are reference to were to be made under licence as discussed at length, US vehicles were also to be made under licence and had significant changes to them as well so I don't really see the relevance. Considering Swedens beligerance during WWII I find its tree far less likely to come in as an Italian one and that if you truly want a Swedish or a Czech tree for that matter you need to be on board and help push for an Italian one before WG simply picks and chooses and absorbs half a dozen from all over the place, throws a few Swiss vehicles in and produces an abhorrent Euro tree.

There's no need for that tone Vollketten, I'm in full support of an Italian tree. I'm also a realist. As to the Swedish tech tree, you're the one who threw the Swedish tech tree in sp15's face when he tried to bring a dose of reality into this thread. (twice now looking at the most recent posts)  And just what does Swedish belligerence during WWII have to do with anything? Does that make their armoured vehicles any less important? I'd also like to know how you justify some of these vehicles at the Tiers you have them. How do you plan on balancing the Semovente M43T at Tier 7? It's a meter less in both height and width than the JagdPanther, and is almost half as long as the JagdPanther. How is it going to handle a Tier 8 gun in order to remain competitive? And what about the P.26/40 and Sahariano M.43 both being at Tier 6? Can you really justify that even though the largest weapon mounted in the P.26/40 was the 75/34 and the Sahariano was supposed to get a short-barreled 75mm?

View Postrivit, on Jun 27 2013 - 21:28, said:

Uh, you can say the same about Italy. Just prior to the creation of this thread the Developers said they had a tier 8 and 9 for both Italy and Poland. They could be one step away from adding a upgraded gun for a tier 10, if they so choose (120/40mm 149/90)
The foreign vehicles are a treat, not a necessity.  
Just because we haven't discussed the Teir 8,9 that WG found doesn't mean they don't exist. No one knows the details of what they found, Yet.

True, but having a Tier 8 and 9 doesn't equate to being able to make an entire tree. You can make one Italian branch stretch all the way to Tier 10 with a minimum of fuss, but even the TD line would need a hell of a lot of Ahnenerbe in order to reach Tier 10.




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