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Italian Tanks and Military Vehicles

italian tank tree heavy medium light tank destroyer artillery semovente carro armato

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Imperator_Gallogrecia #4501 Posted Feb 28 2014 - 23:01

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http://www.pmulcahy....lian_tanks.html

apparently there were four Of-40's the OF-40, OF-40 mk1: mk2 and It seems that the mk2/120 might be the prototype to the c1,

the italian military is apparently answering the challenger 2 (or is it the crysader, the brit mbt) getting depeleted uranium and tungsten armour aswell as making it thicker, also its getting a larger engune and a [edited]gun od the brit class, this being ik the c1 mk2 version

 


Edited by Imperator_Gallogrecia, Mar 03 2014 - 22:55.


Imperator_Gallogrecia #4502 Posted Feb 28 2014 - 23:06

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Engine* bigger gun* crusader*, of the brit class*, in the c1 mk2* Srry I can't edit the comment bc my stupid phone decided to typo n***** gun rather then bigger gun

Vollketten #4503 Posted Feb 28 2014 - 23:11

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Zero chance of uranium or tungsten ammo, composite armour or the upgraded OF-40 tanks so I don't want to get sidetracked with it.

thus I am focussing on trying to flesh out what we have with more accurate information and the odd little surprise.

 



Vollketten #4504 Posted Feb 28 2014 - 23:21

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On the subject of tank production:

  • Ansaldo Report on the Possibility of Incremental Production of Tanks in 1943 and beyond. Dated 24th November 1942:
    • Ansaldo have reviewed the situation in reposnse to the problems of Mussolini and the strengthen the army taking it to the next level
    • Deliveries of completed 'M' Series tanks:
      • December 1942: 80
      • January 1943: 80
      • February 1943: 100
      • March 1943: 125
      • April 1943: 150
      • May 1943: 150
      • June 1943: 150
    • Total by 30th June 1943 estimated to be 835
    • Production in 2nd half of 1943 estimated to be 900
    • On the subject of Pesante tanks namely the P.40 and Semoventi 105/23 it is estimated to be 50 units a month by July 1943
      • By the end of June 1943:
        • 50% of tanks will have the 47/40
        • 50% of Semovente will have 75/18 and 75/34 guns fitted (that 75/34 gun is in production by OTO)
      • By the second half of 1943:
        • 36% of tanks will have the 47/40
        • 67% of Semovente will the 75/34 and 75/18
    • This is only possible under certain conditions:
      • That Fiat-SPA can deliver the power plants required - very likely considering the potential of its workshops
      • Can immediately obtain contracts for the guns and armour for the production from June 1943 - previous guns and armour considered available
      • Obtaining month for month the following supplies:
        • Fe-Cr   67% - 21,000kg
        • Fe-Mo  70% -    3,800kg
        • Fe-Mn  70% -  18,800kg
        • Cast Iron Nickel Steel 6% - 386,000kg
        • This quantity is for the entire production including what is already planned
      • There is sufficient transport and fuel between factories
      • There is sufficient ammunition and fuel available
      • Working hours are extended including removal of festive breaks for skilled and qualified personnel assigned to the production (will affect about 150 workers)

-81



Vollketten #4505 Posted Feb 28 2014 - 23:26

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View Postrivit, on Feb 28 2014 - 15:59, said:

Are we sure it's not the 75/46 with the older method of measuring barrels? I know it's doubtful, but I had to ask.

That paragraph I wrote out is it. Nothing else before or after it to clarify what gun it may be.



Vollketten #4506 Posted Mar 01 2014 - 02:42

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I've asked on the T110 thread (a lot of geekdom is present therein) because a Rheinmetall Model 40 AA 75/43 is not listed in Chamberlain/Ganders Encyclopedia of German Weapons 1939-1945.

Of course this assumes this would be the gun but its the best lead right now.



Imperator_Gallogrecia #4507 Posted Mar 01 2014 - 02:49

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http://books.google....ved=0CFYQ6AEwDw Confirms what I said earlier on the bassotto aswell as states that the m43 105/25 had a different variant (not just armed) with armed a 75/34 in spring 1943 , while they waited for the 75/46

Imperator_Gallogrecia #4508 Posted Mar 01 2014 - 02:50

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Still on mobile Srry*^^^^^^ and that variant was post February 1943

Vollketten #4509 Posted Mar 01 2014 - 02:55

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Yeah, I have that book and this would imply it was a simple typo mixing up 75/34 with 75/43, not helped by a seemingly total lack of information of that listing for a Rheinmetall 75/43 from xoomer. It's not going on the front page till I can verify the gun even exists.

Imperator_Gallogrecia #4510 Posted Mar 01 2014 - 03:17

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i quickly translated this and didn't verify with translate but I think it says that Italy named the 7.5cm pak 40, the 75/43 and then put it on the somvente m43



Imperator_Gallogrecia #4511 Posted Mar 01 2014 - 03:18

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http://it.m.wikipedi...i/7,5_cm_PaK_40 again Srry link for above mobile is glitch now

Imperator_Gallogrecia #4512 Posted Mar 01 2014 - 03:28

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Italy was one of the states that use this gun, under the name 75/43 Mod 40. The initial hypothesis was the production of 1,000 copies of the piece under license by the OTO [9], decision of June 1943, so by now seriously lags behind the needs of war. However, he had previously been entered into an agreement, under which the Germans undertook to provide just a few groups 75/43 in exchange for providing (at different times) of the guns of the Italian-built [10]. The first batch of 24 pieces arrived in Italy in March 1943, delivered in Bologna with these 4 groups were formed controcarri on such material, two in Sicily and two in Sardinia. Subsequently, the material was delivered to other groups 6 and 42 pieces intended for coastal defense in Greece and the Aegean. After the armistice of 8 September, the OTO continued the production of the oscillating masses, which were used on the M43 self-propelled hull [11 Translated from the source above, so the 75/43 is a viable gun/ TD for the tree

Imperator_Gallogrecia #4513 Posted Mar 01 2014 - 03:36

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More glitchness, the site also claims some crazy high pen like tier 7 material high

Vollketten #4514 Posted Mar 01 2014 - 03:37

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Ah, thats good. I  read enough into it and that would explain it other than the AA part. 

Back to Chamberlain and Gander me thinks.

 

I'll have another looks at it and try to narrow down the source of the information which it gives as

"

  • Philip Chaplain , The artillery of the Army in World War II , Albertelli Special Editions, Parma 1998 ISBN 88-87372-03-9"

"^ F. Chaplain, op. cit., p 264"

 

In the meantime that site had a nice image of it in service:

 

If so then it can go on as a gun option which would be nice. 

 


Edited by Vollketten, Mar 01 2014 - 03:45.


Imperator_Gallogrecia #4515 Posted Mar 01 2014 - 03:57

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75/43 M 40

cannone controaereo Rheinmetall 1,0 km

Cannon anti-air- range 1km

 

0 (+ 138 ordinati) 0( +138 ordered to buy)

 

Found your AA gun vollk :p there's also a massive list of Italian used guns there stating how many Italy had if your in the need of logistical numbers, probably most of the guns Italy used http://xoomer.virgil...lierie_2gm.html



Imperator_Gallogrecia #4516 Posted Mar 01 2014 - 03:59

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Links broken again here's the link^^^^ http://xoomer.virgil...lierie_2gm.html

Imperator_Gallogrecia #4517 Posted Mar 01 2014 - 04:02

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Anyone know what a 90/53 c is? Or come across that? It's in the link above edit....... its the 88mm variant of the 90/53 the 88/59

 

this thing has the every number benito mussoulini would have so he knows where to alicate anything what reg, divs, battalions were where, what armoured divs had, where they were everything right down ti clothing



Imperator_Gallogrecia #4518 Posted Mar 01 2014 - 04:15

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Hers the master site if you wanna look up anything about the Italian military http://xoomer.virgil...mius/index.html

Vollketten #4519 Posted Mar 01 2014 - 04:50

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Yeah I used xoomer to get that gun in the first place. Can't find any verification for its source of that 75/43 being an AA gun originally. At least it exists is the important thing. It may not even be that gun but its the only 75/43 I know of. 

I'm a little cross that I got caught out by the calibre measuring thing yet again, Rivit guessed right all along.

Your google-fu is strong.



Vollketten #4520 Posted Mar 01 2014 - 06:37

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View PostVollketten, on Feb 28 2014 - 15:42, said:

I was trying to finalise the cingolettas and there is a few little bits to nearly finish them off.

  • Company in Genoa proposed the CVP5 which was derived from the L.6 called 'Cingoletta'
  • At the same time Fiat-Ansaldo proposes the CVP4 (also known as Fiat 2800) derived directly from various types of British Bren Carriers.
  • Despite requests from the battlefields neither vehicle passed the prototype stage.
  • By the Summer of 1943 the Fiat 2800 (CVP4) was still in an experimental stage but again there were contracting shenanigans involving 12 Motorized Group (Bizzi report)

-81

 

  • Start of 1942 CVB5 prototype is equipped with RF1CA with automatic raising antenna 
  • Ansaldo ditches their study into the installation of a machine gun or Swiss Oerlikon 20/70 [20mm L.70] cannon for which they had a production licence
  • In the mean time Fiat continued with their CVB4 (Fiat 2800) and it was examined by C.S.M in the first half of 1942.

-82

Cingoletta 43 (Fiat 2800, CVB-4)

Copy of British Bren Carrier Mk.I/II

Made between July and October 1941, Prototype ready December 1941, submitted for examination by CSM first half of 1942 but a report dated 5th July 1942 was not complimentary so it was sent back for changes [unspecified] and subsequently resubmitted to CSM 18th December 1942

Uses Horstmann Suspension, turning radius 2m

carried up to 8 men or 1000kg

 

Following this second report and despite some further criticism this vehicle was adopted 19th February 1943:

Mass now 3860kg

armour 14mm front with glacis slope being 8.5mm, central section (sides and rear of it) 9mm, hull roof 6.5mm,

Capable of 61 kph from a 66.4hp engine.

For extra capacity an armoured trailer was made in the Viberti workshops with 8mm side armour and 6mm roof with a mass of 340kg (480kg laden), 1.4m x 0.96m x 0.5m (box), overall dimensions 2.45m x 1.41m x 1.03m

 

 


Edited by Vollketten, Mar 01 2014 - 06:40.





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