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italian tank tree heavy medium light tank destroyer artillery semovente carro armato

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TheWolfie #6341 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 15:07

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View PostVollketten, on Feb 12 2015 - 09:05, said:

 

IIRC the caption is 1936 in Ethiopia

 

Makes sense, unless Balbo is a ghost.

 

Alternative history scenario, Vollketten, assuming that the North African campaign lasted long enough for the P40, P43, and P43 bis to enter production, how well do you think they would have done (counting in factors like Italian production & Fiat-Ansaldo's ineptness/corruption)?



Vollketten #6342 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 15:38

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View PostTheWolfie, on Feb 12 2015 - 08:07, said:

Makes sense, unless Balbo is a ghost.

 

Alternative history scenario, Vollketten, assuming that the North African campaign lasted long enough for the P40, P43, and P43 bis to enter production, how well do you think they would have done (counting in factors like Italian production & Fiat-Ansaldo's ineptness/corruption)?

Mobility of them would be fine but I try and avoid alternate revisionist history stuff.

I don't see the War in North Africa lasting into 1947.....



rivit #6343 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 17:17

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Spoiler

 

Some nice pics of the Semovente L40 47/32: http://beutepanzer.ru/Beutepanzer/italy/spg/DA_47_32/DA_47_32-1.htm

The Encyclopedia of Weapons of WW II by Chris Bishop has the Semovente 47/32 with flat angled armor and a British soldier leaning over the vehicle.

"...and the Semovente L/40s often had their anti-tank armament removed and used instead as mobile command posts for senior commanders with an armament of one8-mm Breda modello 38 machine gun."

Spoiler

 

I'm currently looking for the guns that closed two of the beaches at Licata.


 

 

 


Edited by rivit, Feb 12 2015 - 18:04.


rivit #6344 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 17:37

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Also, an article on Overlord's blog mentioning the CR.42:

Boots over Italy http://overlord-wot.blogspot.com/2014/09/boots-over-italy.html



Vollketten #6345 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 17:49

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Two more Ansaldo projects based on the FT-17/Fiat 3000 hull

 

75mm gun behind gunshield on much modified hull with the entire midsection cut out. Drivers section remains intact.

My quick guestimate is ~L/15

 

and another variation on a theme with a 105mm gun (L value is not stated but could be scaled and calculated; my quick guestimate is L/34 although the 105/28 seems more likely off the top of my head). This time the gun position is reversed with again a curved gunshield but firing backwards over the back of the tank hull.

 

and an FT-17 undergoing examination having been stripped down in order to study it to produce their own designs.

Undated but its going to be the end of WW1 some time. Shows they have the original FT-17 turret in the studio too to work from which is interesting.

 

EDIT: This was +2 and now just +1 so the negging pursuit is still going on.

Whoever it is needs to stop. It's pathetic

Edit2: wow seriously? What a loser


Edited by Vollketten, Feb 13 2015 - 02:07.


rivit #6346 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 18:03

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That's three 105mm SPGs.  The turret mounted, rear facing, and now this.



Vollketten #6347 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 18:06

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View Postrivit, on Feb 12 2015 - 11:03, said:

That's three 105mm SPGs.  The turret mounted, rear facing, and now this.

Just a shame SPG's are so unpopular.

Likely to be zero chance of any more premium SPG's for any nation in the near to mid-term unless they make it as terribad as the Sexton premium.



TheWolfie #6348 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 18:17

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View PostVollketten, on Feb 12 2015 - 12:06, said:

Just a shame SPG's are so unpopular.

Likely to be zero chance of any more premium SPG's for any nation in the near to mid-term unless they make it as terribad as the Sexton premium.

 

While they've never really bothered me, I can understand why they are unpopular. Back in August, I got a Loyd and played a round or two. Fun, but I quickly realized, "yeah, I can actually understand why people don't like these."

 

What about the Semovente 90/53 as a SPG? It seems more for that role than a tank destroyer.



Life_In_Black #6349 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 18:21

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View PostVollketten, on Feb 12 2015 - 11:49, said:

Two more Ansaldo projects based on the FT-17/Fiat 3000 hull

 

75mm gun behind gunshield on much modified hull with the entire midsection cut out. Drivers section remains intact.

My quick guestimate is ~L/15

 

and another variation on a theme with a 105mm gun (L value is not stated but could be scaled and calculated; my quick guestimate is L/34 although the 105/28 seems more likely off the top of my head). This time the gun position is reversed with again a curved gunshield but firing backwards over the back of the tank hull.

 

and an FT-17 undergoing examination having been stripped down in order to study it to produce their own designs.

Undated but its going to be the end of WW1 some time. Shows they have the original FT-17 turret in the studio too to work from which is interesting.

 

 

Out of curiosity Vollketten, did you take those two FT-17 SPG photos yourself?

rivit #6350 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 18:24

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View PostVollketten, on Feb 12 2015 - 12:06, said:

Just a shame SPG's are so unpopular.

Likely to be zero chance of any more premium SPG's for any nation in the near to mid-term unless they make it as terribad as the Sexton premium.

 

But 80% of the player base plays arty, so I wouldn't rule out anything. I like the CV. 65MM and the L3 Brixia better. Even with only a 45mm, it can be used to counter plenty of open top TDs and SPGS.  The 45mm grenade wasn't the best but it was still lethal up to a 10' radius.

We never did establish whether or not a 45mm HE would start an engine fire after a direct hit on the engine. Might get better results from an incendiary grenade.  


Edited by rivit, Feb 12 2015 - 18:43.


rivit #6351 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 18:31

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View PostTheWolfie, on Feb 12 2015 - 12:17, said:

 

While they've never really bothered me, I can understand why they are unpopular. Back in August, I got a Loyd and played a round or two. Fun, but I quickly realized, "yeah, I can actually understand why people don't like these."

 

What about the Semovente 90/53 as a SPG? It seems more for that role than a tank destroyer.

 

It was designed as a tank destroyer. It killed tanks and we don't need it as a SPG. It's a shame you're a new player and never experienced the days of the non-nerfed artillery. One could take a Bison and smash Churchills and M6s on his way to a top gun. Glorious times they were.

Now I use my  m40/43 SPG in direct fire roles to teach the whiners a lesson.


 


Edited by rivit, Feb 12 2015 - 18:32.


Vollketten #6352 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 18:31

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View PostLife_In_Black, on Feb 12 2015 - 11:21, said:

Out of curiosity Vollketten, did you take those two FT-17 SPG photos yourself?

 

yes

 

wait. wth someone is still negging this stuff?

Whoever it is - go away


Edited by Vollketten, Feb 12 2015 - 18:32.


Life_In_Black #6353 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 18:33

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View PostVollketten, on Feb 12 2015 - 12:31, said:

 

yes

 

wait. wth someone is still negging this stuff?

Whoever it is - go away

 

So you own a physical copy of La Meccanizzazione Dell'Esercito Final Al 1943, too now?

Vollketten #6354 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 18:34

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View PostLife_In_Black, on Feb 12 2015 - 11:33, said:

So you own a physical copy of La Meccanizzazione Dell'Esercito Final Al 1943, too now?

Had one for some time.



Vollketten #6355 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 18:40

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View Postrivit, on Feb 12 2015 - 11:24, said:

But 80% of the player base plays arty, so I wouldn't rule out anything. I like the CV. 65MM and the L3 Brixia better. Even with only a 45mm, it can be used to counter plenty of open top TDs and SPGS.  The 45mm grenade wasn't the best but it was still lethal up to a 10' radius.

We never did establish whether or not a 45mm HE would start an engine fire after a direct hit on the engine. Might get better results from a incendiary grenade.   

 

Re: Artillery; It's also the most contentious and whined about subject within the game.

 

For the poor little Brixia the 45mm round would be fine for a direct hit on an open topped vehicle but the low blast radius means anything other than a direct hit would do nothing. Although that just makes it the same as many others already in game.

 

The only way for it to work would be to have that experimental anti-armour round but even then the pen is going to have to be low. Early HEAT shells were awful. Having said that though roof armour at low tiers is paper thin in many cases and it could definitely be balanced with a little effort.



rivit #6356 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 18:46

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View PostVollketten, on Feb 12 2015 - 12:40, said:

 

Re: Artillery; It's also the most contentious and whined about subject within the game.

 

For the poor little Brixia the 45mm round would be fine for a direct hit on an open topped vehicle but the low blast radius means anything other than a direct hit would do nothing. Although that just makes it the same as many others already in game.

 

The only way for it to work would be to have that experimental anti-armour round but even then the pen is going to have to be low. Early HEAT shells were awful. Having said that though roof armour at low tiers is paper thin in many cases and it could definitely be balanced with a little effort.

 

There's an unofficial rate of fire I have listed for the Brixia. I'll have to dig it up. Thought it was listed in Hogg's Twentieth Century Artillery.

Vollketten #6357 Posted Feb 12 2015 - 18:55

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It's a very unusual firing system and ludicrously complex but was very quick.

Vollketten #6358 Posted Feb 13 2015 - 04:50

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Let's enjoy some artwork

Period postcard entitled 'Ferra Mole Ferra Cuore'



TheWolfie #6359 Posted Feb 13 2015 - 07:32

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View PostVollketten, on Feb 12 2015 - 22:50, said:

Let's enjoy some artwork

Period postcard entitled 'Ferra Mole Ferra Cuore'

Spoiler

 

 

Patriotic Semovente 75/18 bring glory to Roman Fatherland.

 

That reminds me, Vollketten, do you have any data on the 75/18's AP penetration?


Edited by TheWolfie, Feb 13 2015 - 13:00.


TheWolfie #6360 Posted Feb 13 2015 - 13:05

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View Postrivit, on Feb 12 2015 - 12:31, said:

 

It was designed as a tank destroyer. It killed tanks and we don't need it as a SPG. It's a shame you're a new player and never experienced the days of the non-nerfed artillery. One could take a Bison and smash Churchills and M6s on his way to a top gun. Glorious times they were.

Now I use my  m40/43 SPG in direct fire roles to teach the whiners a lesson.

 

I personally want to drive the Semovente 90/53 against a T-34/86, KV-1, or KV-2.

 

What should have been. :playing:






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