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Vollketten #81 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 18:42

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Vollketten #82 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 19:05

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Vollketten #83 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 19:10

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lostwingman #84 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 19:41

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View PostVollketten, on Jan 23 2013 - 18:41, said:

Some italian tank shells.

HEAT rounds are known as 'Effecto Pronto' I beleive. (Hence E.P) and they made them in quite small calibres.

Posted Image
Can I get hand gun caliber HEAT shells? lol

View PostVollketten, on Jan 23 2013 - 18:42, said:

True.
Then I can't see why not the OF-40 at Tier X as a Medium.
What would immensely help would be the introduction of a historical battle mode where historical purists can have their era-correct recreations and the wider game can function within the current rules of vehicle acceptance.

Edited by lostwingman, Jan 23 2013 - 19:46.


Vollketten #85 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 19:49

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lostwingman #86 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 20:01

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I'm not sure how punchy they would be, since the effectiveness of HEAT is skewed to shell diameter. Still, it would be hilarious to have HEAT autocannons. Imagine the huge resupply costs after matches.

Vollketten #87 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 20:10

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lostwingman #88 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 20:13

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Maybe, I wish in general that WG would do a more normalized balancing of the damage and cost of shells by type rather than by "premium" or "regular" as there are some WW2 German low pressure guns I'd like to see.

Vollketten #89 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 20:21

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lostwingman #90 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 20:24

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No one spams premium rounds with gold anymore, they spam it with credits and run high resupply costs.
There are a lot of things broken with premium rounds.

Vollketten #91 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 21:39

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rivit #92 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 21:41

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Spoiler

 

Spoiler

Sources and Notes:

[1] Jon Latimer, Operation Compass 1940: Wavell's Whirlwind Offensive, Osprey, 2000, pg.65

[2] ibid, pg 80

Gavin Merrick, Australia in the War of 1939-1945,Series I - Army, Vol.1 To Benghazi,  pg.270:

 http://static.awm.gov.au/images/collection/pdf/RCDIG1070233--1-.PDF

[3] ibid, pg. 270-271

[4] ibid, pg 272

[5]Barton Maughan, Australia in the War of 1939-1945,Series I-Army, Vol.III, Tobruk and El Alamein, (1st edition ,1966)

Chapter 4, At Bay - the Easter Battle, pg 134:

[6] ibid, pg. 168

http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/second_world_war/AWMOHWW2/Army/Vol3/

[7]From W.E. Murphy, The Official History of New Zealand in the second World War 1939-1945, Chap. 26 - Gazala and Beyond  pg.499

[8] Correlli Barnett, The Desert Generals, pg. 97

[9] Agar-Hamilton and Turner, South African Official History, no page number

[10 Andreas,The Crusader Project, Ariete's Contribution to the Battle of Totensonntag(Sunday of the Dead) Sidi Rezegh:

http://rommelsriposte.com/2013/08/10/arietes-contribution-to-sidi-rezegh-di-nisio-column/

[11] War diaries of the 3CLY

[12] Agar-Hamilton and Turner, South African Official History, pg 231

[13] Ibid,'' ''

[14] 7th Armoured Division, Engagements 1941 http://www.desertrats.org.uk/battles1941.htm#Crusader

[15} 1RTR site (war diaries unavailable online):http://www.1rtr.net/frontpage.html

 >click on 1RTR 1955 Handbook on bottom right. June 10th , 1942:

Spoiler

[16] War Diaries of the 6RTR:

Spoiler

 

[17] David Irving, The Trail of the Fox, pg.277

[18] 7th Armoured Division, Engagements 1942

http://www.desertrats.org.uk/battles1942.htm

[19Playfair I.S.O: and Molony, Brigadier C.J.C.; with Flynn R.N., Captain F.C. & Gleave, Group Captain T.P. (2004) [1st. pub. HMSO 1966]. Butler, J.R.M, ed. The Mediterranean and Middle East, Volume IV: The Destruction of the Axis Forces in AfricaHistory of the Second World War United Kingdom Military Series. Uckfield, UK: Naval & Military Press.  pg.78-79

...............................................................................................................................................................................................................

2RGH War Diaries: http://www.warlinks.com/armour/2nd_rgh/index.php

3CLY War Diaries: http://www.warlinks.com/armour/4_cly/index.php

4th Hussars War Diaries: http://www.desertrats.org.uk/WarDiaries/4th_Hussars/index.htm

6RTR War Diaries: http://www.warlinks.com/armour/6th_royal_tank/index.php

11th Hussars War Diaries: http://www.warlinks.com/armour/11_hussars/index.php

Montecuccoli's war reports of the Italian High Command "Ballettini di guerra"

www.panzer-archive, The Italian Army in WW2 pg.9:

http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic.php?t=3653&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120

 

Edit history: Removed M11/39s from Disaster at Beda Fomm

                    *** Update on 9/5/2016

                     Added Ariete Combat report for:

Spoiler

                                               


Edited by rivit, Sep 05 2016 - 16:51.


lostwingman #93 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 21:50

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View PostVollketten, on Jan 23 2013 - 21:39, said:

I have been talking with Raptor_Fulcrum from the EU server who already has had a go at an Italian tree and he has the OF-40 (Lion) as the tier X. Although there is no Fiat 2000 in there which would be awfully good fun in the game and probably play like a Tog with relatively poor armour and a ****-ton of hitpoints.
The FIAT 2000 definitely needs to be in in one way or another.

rivit #94 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 21:53

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View Postlostwingman, on Jan 23 2013 - 15:50, said:


The FIAT 2000 definitely needs to be in in one way or another.

                                                                 The End in North Africa

25/11/1942- Coxen's farm

The Chieftain's Hatch already covered the following battle:

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/72635-chouigui-pass/

At Coxen's farm two Semovente 47/32s are knocked out by Stuarts. One Stuart is lost by AT fire.

Outcome/Losses......................2 Semovente 47/32 / 1 Stuart

 

21/2/1943- Djebel el Harma

The American 9th Infantry and 13th Armored Regiment halt the Centauro and 15th Panzer Division.  

This battle is widely known, but finding losses for the Centauro's M14/41s has proven difficult.

The Italian tank losses were most likely several M14/41s incorporated into a DAK assualt group. [1]

Outcome/Losses...............several M14/41s / 0

             

30/3/1943 to 10/4/1943 - Djebel Berda , Djebel el Mcheltat (El Quettar Valley), Centauro and Benson Force

For over eight days the Centauro and Bersaglieri held back Benson Force and the 9th Infantry Division. During the first assault, Benson Force loses five M3 Lees to mines and enemy fire. During the next attempt on the 31st, nine M3 Lees and two half-track tank destroyers are knocked out from AT-fire, mines, and a flanking attack from Centauro's sixteen remaining tanks, including two Semovente. Six M14/41s are lost during the counter-attack. [2]

Outcome/Losses....................6 M14/41s / 9 M3 Lees

 

Sources And Notes:

[1]

Spoiler

[2]

Spoiler

 


Edited by rivit, Jun 28 2015 - 19:38.


Vollketten #95 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 21:53

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Edited by Vollketten, Oct 27 2017 - 22:05.


Vollketten #96 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 21:55

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rivit #97 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 21:56

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                                                                              The Path of the Semovente 90/53 

10/7/1943- Position 9147 and the first encounter.

Four miles inland from Licata beach, between midnight on July 10th and midnight on July 11th, the 15th Infantry Division advances north along Highway 123. Running into position *9147, two Semovente da 90/53s and a light tank are discovered abandoned after an artillery strike.

*Position 9147 doesn't match any elevation in the area. Most likely it's the fire designation numbers used while calling for fire. This area possibly matches Monte Morotta. - Rivit

Outcome/Losses.............................2 / ---

Sources and Notes:

Spoiler

 

 

11/7/1943- Four hour dual at Favarotta, Sicily

(unconfirmed)

After landing at Licata, The Americans begin to advance north as part of the initial plan to provide a guard for Monty's flank. Around this time, the 10th Group Venturi

with about eight Semovente 90/53s heads south to intervene. The 10th Group deploys in a hasty ambush and manages to delay the American advance along Highway 123 for about four hours. The 10th Gruppo war diary claims they knocked out several armored vehicles or tanks but the vehicle type remains unclear. 

 

Outcome/losses..............................Several armored vehicles and tanks(claimed) / 2 Semovente da 90/53 (claimed by half-tracks)

Spoiler

 

.............................................................................................................................................................................................................

11/7/1943 to 12/7/1943-  Captain Perkins and the Semovente da 90/53 at Canicatti, Sicily.

       On the 11th of July, three M4 Shermans are lost while attempting to advance down the forward slope of ridge "A". Before nightfall, a combined artilleryand tank fire-for-effect on the village below forces the loss and abandonment of four Semovente 90/53s. On the 12th, two more Shermans are lost outside Canicatti. The fourth tank falling to possible artillery fire and the fifth, Capt. Perkins' tank 'Hannibal', was the last to fall around 2500 yards when a round struck the tip of Hannibal's cannon and ripped the gun from its mount, spinning the turret to its side.

Outcome/Losses..................4 Semovente da 90/53 / 5 Shermans

Spoiler

 

19/07/1943- The 45th Infantry Division and the self propelled 90s.

(unconfirmed, possibly wheeled)

On July 19th the advance of the 157th Infantry Regiment is halted north of San Caterina and eventually replaced by the 180th south of San Caterina . The 180th Inf. Rgt. continues the attack at 2000 hrs. About 95 Italians, 12 light tanks and 11 armoured cars are captured. Artillery batteries later claim six 90mm self propelled guns between San Caterina and Resuttono. Author Patrick Cloutier's Regio Esercito: The Italian Royal Army in Mussolini's Wars, 1935-1943 reveals on page 196: To the west of mobile group A attacks by the US 45th Divisions 157th regiment had inflicted heavy casualties on the 3rd battalion/30th Regiment of the Assietta Division; losses included crewmembers of four attached Semovente 90/53.

 On 19th July, heavy allied air attacks forced the battalion to abandon its positions and put the Semovente out of use."

https://books.google.com/books?id=ZbRjAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA196&lpg=PA196&dq=Semovente+90/53&source=bl&ots=UzBV0yGMZn&sig=ByQ3MvzSGXPUu08IGRTZB1ah2FQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAzg-ahUKEwiiy76RipjJAhVGTSYKHXvyDkU#v=onepage&q=Semovente%2090%2F53&f=false

Spoiler

The last Semovente 90/53 reaches Messina and It is left behind during the withdraw from Sicily. A single Semovente 90/53 is left on its railroad flatbed after an allied bombing raid (date?).

Vollk's archive post pg.?

Photo < A British officer standing next to the Semovente 90/53, left on its flatbed, Messina, Sicily.>

 

Italy:

After a bombing raid launched by the USAAF, six  Semovente 90/53s become trapped on their RR flatbeds in Northern Rome. It is likely the Germans recovered a single Semovente 90/53 from this location and used this vehicle as a part of the 26th Panzer Division. 

Vollk's archive post pg.?

Photo < Semovente 90/53s sitting on their flat beds>

 

Mainly used around the area of Orsogna, the 26th Panzer Division eventually shifted to the west coast. The unit occupied the Alban hills, just south of Rome, and was poised to relieve the units fighting at Anzio. The relief never takes place. As a result of the breakout along the Gustav line, The 26th Panzer Division withdraws north and leaves behind the last Semovente 90/53 along the route between Anzio and Rome.  It is unknown if the last Semovente 90/53  was used to delay the American advance on Rome. (Date- between the Gustav breakout and the 26th Panzer Division's withdraw towards Rome)

 

Photo: <Semovente 90/53 on side o the road between Anzio And Rome>

     

Semovente 90/53 @ Orsogna:

http://beutepanzer.r.../Da-90_53-1.htm

26.Panzer Division was equipped with 18 75mm M42 SP and 7 105/25 M43 SP in November 1943.

The Semovente 90/53 from 26. Panzer-Division belonged to the Stabskompanie of Pz.Rgt. 26, as shown in an chart dated 1stDecember 1943.(source panzerwrecks blog).

Used in the area of Orsogna until January 1944. At the end of 1944, 2 Lince were delivered. Unit fought east of Bologna and in April 1945 crossed the Po and retreated towards Austria.

 

Vollketen's article:

Semovente 90/53: Italy's Big Guns

​Italian Tanks and Military Vehicles, pages 355 & 359                                   

WOT Forum


 


Edited by rivit, Jan 29 2017 - 15:32.


Vollketten #98 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 22:01

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Vollketten #99 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 22:02

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lostwingman #100 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 22:02

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View Postrivit, on Jan 23 2013 - 21:56, said:

More fun than one man should be allowed to have.
Man should not be limited in their sporting fun.




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