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Italian Tanks and Military Vehicles

italian tank tree heavy medium light tank destroyer artillery semovente carro armato

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Slakrrrrrr #901 Posted Jun 20 2013 - 19:58

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Holy balls, great find Voll!

Vollketten #902 Posted Jun 20 2013 - 20:08

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edit

Edited by Vollketten, Oct 27 2017 - 20:30.


Slakrrrrrr #903 Posted Jun 20 2013 - 20:14

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View PostVollketten, on Jun 20 2013 - 20:08, said:

Landships is such a good website for WW1 stuff. There is always someone there who knows everything on any aspect of WW1 no matter how small.

Sadly the article makes no mention of Italian involvement but that doesn't mean there wasn't one. Still keeping my fingers crossed some geographical expert can say the mountains were Italian but it's not much of a hope.
It's sad, that's for sure. Still, despite the bad news, at least we have some information of some great low tier french SPGs (possible replacements for the BS?).

rivit #904 Posted Jun 20 2013 - 20:21

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View PostVollketten, on Jun 20 2013 - 13:48, said:


nice find, I tried to enlarge the text and then look up 'Seccion Tecnica de Automotives de Vicennnes' (STAV) and end up in a loop going back to the French 75mm field gun all the time.
I sent this through Google translate and only Spanish seems to work . It says Technical section of Vincennes cars. I looked up Vincennes on Google earth and its a area outside Paris, France
*edit: Never mind my late post

Edited by rivit, Jan 31 2014 - 15:34.


Vollketten #905 Posted Jun 20 2013 - 20:26

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Edited by Vollketten, Oct 27 2017 - 20:30.


rivit #906 Posted Jun 20 2013 - 21:10

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Possible ammo for Brixia?
From Comando Supremo forum. Italian shoulder fired anti- tank weapon

A rifle grenade Model 91/28 TS Tromboncino Launcia Bombe 38.5mm Projectile
http://www.carbinesf...s.com/cargrelau

Edited by rivit, Apr 13 2017 - 17:16.


Vollketten #907 Posted Jun 20 2013 - 21:26

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Edited by Vollketten, Oct 27 2017 - 20:30.


Vollketten #908 Posted Jun 20 2013 - 21:36

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Edited by Vollketten, Oct 27 2017 - 20:31.


Life_In_Black #909 Posted Jun 20 2013 - 21:55

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View PostVollketten, on Jun 20 2013 - 21:26, said:

I think the Brixia or just an MG with decent ammo would be best. The 20mm Solothurn I think would just be far too good for tier 1. The AT grenade launcher would be a laugh as well, good find.



Random Libyan desert image I grabbed some time ago but couldn't take anywhere. Shows armour thickness of mantle and size of breech pretty well.
Posted Image

There's no source given, but this is on the Wikipedia page for the S-18/100 variant:

Quote

A Finnish source gives armour penetration of the gun (probably achieved with the Hungarian APHE-T round, since it was the only type used in Finland) as 20mm at a 60-degree angle at 100-metre distance, decreasing to 16mm at 500 metres.
so it's not OP for Tier 1, far from it.

Life_In_Black #910 Posted Jun 20 2013 - 22:00

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It looks like someone added the track guards from a Sherman onto a P.43 to me.

Vollketten #911 Posted Jun 20 2013 - 22:01

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That's not much drop off in penetration considering the increase in distance. I'll have a look and see if I can dig out any other stats for it thank you.

sp15 #912 Posted Jun 20 2013 - 22:03

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View Postrivit, on Jun 20 2013 - 21:10, said:

http://i1279.photobu...zps4336625c.jpg





I was looking around today for some possible armaments for the Auto Caretta 1.5 ton:

The trusty Solothurn 20mm! Breda has a usable model to.
http://i1279.photobu...zpsb433d763.jpg
thats no solthurn that is a Lahti
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Lahti_L-39

also this is what a real solthurn looks like
Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by sp15, Jun 20 2013 - 22:07.


Life_In_Black #913 Posted Jun 20 2013 - 22:04

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View PostVollketten, on Jun 20 2013 - 22:01, said:

That's not much drop off in penetration considering the increase in distance. I'll have a look and see if I can dig out any other stats for it thank you.

No problem. I can't find anything concrete about how long they are, other than inches or mm. It's nice when you come across a handy L/#. :P

rivit #914 Posted Jun 20 2013 - 22:10

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View Postsp15, on Jun 20 2013 - 16:03, said:


thats no solthurn that is a Lahti
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Lahti_L-39
also this is what a real solthurn looks like

Ah, thanks for the correction. I'll edit it in

Edited by rivit, Jan 31 2014 - 15:37.


Vollketten #915 Posted Jun 20 2013 - 22:12

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Initial stats for Solothurn:

Solothurm S.18/100 cannon AP-38mm (+15 to -12) (12 degree left and right)

38mm of penetration is pretty good if it is correct.

rivit #916 Posted Jun 20 2013 - 23:04

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View PostVollketten, on Jun 20 2013 - 11:16, said:


Undoubtedly the gun would be more powerful than the puny Brixia mortar but I was under the impression that this was a French vehicle using the Schneider gun.. If it is Italian it will go on the tree without a doubt.
Whilst we think about it I found these previously unpublished images:
Carro Commando knocked out in Italy:

and a good side shot of the 90/53 showing that spaced armoured 'collar' to cover the base of the gun shield.

both photos were taken in 1944 on the road between Anzio and Rome.

You found a rare gem of a photo of the Semovente 90/53. After Sicily, the only info I've been able to find out about its service was with the German's 26th Panzer Division. Possibly, it was used as artillery support in the Orsagna area during the battle of the Moro river. That area is on the East coast of Italy. This means some saw service on the West coast, most likely at Anzio.

  


Edited by rivit, Jan 31 2014 - 15:41.


Slakrrrrrr #917 Posted Jun 21 2013 - 00:50

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I must say, the Solothurm is too damn sexeh.

Vollketten #918 Posted Jun 21 2013 - 02:56

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View Postrivit, on Jun 20 2013 - 23:04, said:

You found a rare gem of a photo of the Semovente 90/53. After Sicily, the only info I've been able to find out about its service was with the German's 26th Panzer Division. Possibly, it was used as artillery support  in the Orsagna area during the battle of the Moro river. That area is on the East coast of Italy. This means some saw service on the West coast, most likely at Anzio.
the photos came from the personal collection of a US soldier who landed at Anzio and then went to Rome passing these on the way so they are verified as being there despite some sources saying the 90/53 only saw action in Sicily.

Vollketten #919 Posted Jun 21 2013 - 14:36

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From: 'Hitlers Great Panzer Heist' by Anthony Tucker Jones, Stackpole Books 2006

Page 49-50
(re derelict German airfield at Gambut in North Africa December 1941)

"we turned aside along a track leading o the coast where, we had been told, a big German tank-repair workshop had been captured intact......There were 38 tanks in all, hulking great Mark IV's, smaller Cruisers, even one or two new British A15's with German black and white crosses superimposed on their regimental colours........Cases of tank precision instruments worth thousands of pounds lay about. One was full of persicopes. Several huge boxes contained new 50mm guns which apparently could be fitted to damaged tanks in this place. There were sheets of armour, new tracks and tyres, a mass of woodwork and steel parts. It seemed that they could have built a tank here in the desert by the sea. The richest prize was about 30 tanks of all kinds which the Germans had lying about. These tanks had been brought in for repair, and when the retreat was ordered that they had been set on fire"

a) I cannot find any evidence of a captured British tank being fitted with a German 50mm gun
b) Any idea of a German vehicle mounting a 50mm gun?
c) What is the 50mm gun- he says the boxes were huge so I assume a long barreled weapon.
d) Given the German penchant for scavenging and repairing any tank they could including Italian vehicles is it inconceivable that one of those vehicles was an Italian tank either fitted or about to be fitted with a 50mm German gun?
e) Either way is it justifiable to give a 50mm German gun option (whatever flavor of 50mm it may be) to the contemporary Italian tanks such as the M.11/39. I would have to check deployment dates for the M.13/40, M.14/41 and Semovente.

Edited by Vollketten, Jun 21 2013 - 14:40.


Vollketten #920 Posted Jun 21 2013 - 14:51

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From: 'Hitlers Great Panzer Heist' by Anthony Tucker Jones, Stackpole Books 2006

Page 169-170
Table of Italian tank, assault gun and armoured car production 1933-44

Model...................................................Italian build 1933-43......................................German build 1943-44
L3/33 & 35 tankette........................................2000....................................................................17 (+ 148 confiscated)
L6/4 light tank...................................................283......................................................................0 ( + ? confiscated)
M11/39 medium tank........................................100......................................................................0
M13/40 medium tank.........................................785....................................................................22
M14/41 medium tank.........................................895......................................................................1
M15/42 medium tank...........................................92....................................................................28 (+ 92 confiscated)
P26/40 heavy tank................................................5 (200 ordered).............................................100
M41/M42 command vehicle................................16......................................................................41 (+ 16 confiscated)
L40 da 47/32 light assault gun..........................300........................................................................0 (+ 78 confiscated)
da 75/18 assault gun........................................200.......................................................................55 (+ 123 confiscated)
da 75/34 assault gun..........................................90 (500 ordered)................................................80 (+ 36 confiscated)
da 105/25 assault howitzer.................................26 ( 495 ordered)...............................................91 (+ 26 confiscated)
Rearmed da 105/25 assault gun with
75/34 or 75/46....................................................0...........................................................................40
AB40 armoured car............................................24
AB41 armoured car...........................................500........................................................................87 (+ 23 confiscated)
AB41/43 armoured car........................................10.......................................................................120 (+ 37 confiscated)
Lancia Lincie Armoured Car..................................0.......................................................................250

Subtotal:...............................................................5326....................................................................932
Total.....................................................................5326...................................................................1511

Italian Tank and Assault Gun Imports from Germany 1940-43

Model....................................................................No......................................................................Delivered
Renault R-35/ PzKpfw 35-R 731(f)........................109.......................................................................1940
Somua S-35/ PzKpfw 35-s 739(f)............................32........................................................................1941
Panzerkamfwagen III...............................................12........................................................................1943
Panzerkamfwagen IV...............................................12........................................................................1943
Sturmgeschutz III.....................................................12........................................................................1943

Total..........................................................................177.....................................................................1940-43




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