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Was there ever any blueprints for the E-50M?


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SULOMON #1 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 19:08

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Did WG ever find any blue prints for the E-50M or did they just figure the Germans would of designed an E-50M?

ysoignorant #2 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 19:10

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Completely fictional if I remember correctly.

tvanderhart #3 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 19:12

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Well, according to the historical section on the Wiki page, there were at least plans for it.

http://wiki.worldoft...om/E-50_Ausf._M

Priory_of_Sion #4 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 19:15

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Plans, not blueprints.

In Panzer Tracts 20-1 it states the E-50 & E-75 were to have rear transmissions, however the actual blueprints for the hulls of the E-50/75 show that a rear transmission would be impossible.

Whee #5 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 19:15

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What of the E-75M? Does that exist?

Priory_of_Sion #6 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 19:20

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View PostWhee, on Jan 22 2013 - 19:15, said:

What of the E-75M? Does that exist?
The E-75 ausf. M would be just as real as the E-50 ausf. M.

The E-50 and E-75 chassis were only different in suspension and armor. Layout and location of transmission would be the exact same. Therefore an E-75M would make some sense.

Kankou #7 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 19:21

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I'll just post these two links to Overlord's blog. Judge for yourselves.

[WoT] The Notorious Transmission Thing

[WoT] Transmission Response from Mr. Doyle


For those who don't want to read, here's what Mr. Doyle has to say about the rear transmission idea:

Quote

Most are original calculation sheets on possible drive train and suspension ideas.  My drawings are based on the sketches attached.  Clearly, these first thoughts and proposals on future Panzer requirements were never given any priority and as the war situation deteriorated.  To me the “real“ engine/transmission package designers from Maybach never actively got involved and the armour designers certainly had not considered how a rear drive might be mounted.  What we see are proposals “that are the best ideas since sliced bread” being pushed by fringe companies and they certainly had no authority to  design the necessary new armoured hull.

So yes, there were proposals, but no, there were no blueprints given the hole Germany was in anyway.

reaper762 #8 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 19:22

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The E50 Ausf M was how the E50/E75/E100 series tanks were originally supposed to be designed with the rear mounted transmission as requested by the Wehrmacht because the front mounted transmission was unreliable.

Dayus #9 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 19:40

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View PostPriory_of_Sion, on Jan 22 2013 - 19:15, said:

Plans, not blueprints.

In Panzer Tracts 20-1 it states the E-50 & E-75 were to have rear transmissions, however the actual blueprints for the hulls of the E-50/75 show that a rear transmission would be impossible.
e75 physically cannot have a front transmission, there was a guy who did a garry's mod showing how the frontal transmission would stick out halfway.

andrewcarr1993 #10 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 19:42

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It seems to me they just took the E-50 (which had real blueprints) and then just made it shoot APCR and heat.

Tiger_23 #11 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 19:43

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Frontal is impossible.

Kankou #12 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 19:44

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View PostDayus, on Jan 22 2013 - 19:40, said:

e75 physically cannot have a front transmission, there was a guy who did a garry's mod showing how the frontal transmission would stick out halfway.

I'm pretty sure I would listen to Mr. Doyle rather than a modder.

Basically, aren't all the "frontal transmission is impossible" crowd saying it without having the amount of knowledge experts have?

Dayus #13 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 19:48

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View PostKankou, on Jan 22 2013 - 19:44, said:

I'm pretty sure I would listen to Mr. Doyle rather than a modder.

Basically, aren't all the "frontal transmission is impossible" crowd saying it without having the amount of knowledge experts have?
Using the e75 model used in world of tanks, you physically cannot  fit a transmission in the front of the e75, to do such you would need to nerf the angle on the e75 and ignore its intent.

But i guess you'd rather ignore physics right?

Tiger_23 #14 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 19:51

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View PostKankou, on Jan 22 2013 - 19:44, said:

I'm pretty sure I would listen to Mr. Doyle rather than a modder.

Basically, aren't all the "frontal transmission is impossible" crowd saying it without having the amount of knowledge experts have?

View PostDayus, on Jan 22 2013 - 19:48, said:

Using the e75 model used in world of tanks, you physically cannot  fit a transmission in the front of the e75, to do such you would need to nerf the angle on the e75 and ignore its intent.

But i guess you'd rather ignore physics right?

http://forum.worldof...75-front-drive/

Kankou #15 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 19:51

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More like I would listen to the expert who writes and makes CAD for a living rather than someone who just has a cursory look at a game model and say "physics".

Kankou #16 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 19:53

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View PostTiger_23, on Jan 22 2013 - 19:51, said:


Read the below quote:

View PostKankou, on Jan 22 2013 - 19:21, said:

I'll just post these two links to Overlord's blog. Judge for yourselves.

[WoT] The Notorious Transmission Thing

[WoT] Transmission Response from Mr. Doyle


For those who don't want to read, here's what Mr. Doyle has to say about the rear transmission idea:

Quote

Most are original calculation sheets on possible drive train and suspension ideas.  My drawings are based on the sketches attached.  Clearly, these first thoughts and proposals on future Panzer requirements were never given any priority and as the war situation deteriorated.  To me the “real“ engine/transmission package designers from Maybach never actively got involved and the armour designers certainly had not considered how a rear drive might be mounted.  What we see are proposals “that are the best ideas since sliced bread” being pushed by fringe companies and they certainly had no authority to  design the necessary new armoured hull.


So yes, there were proposals, but no, there were no blueprints given the hole Germany was in anyway.


Kankou #17 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 20:13

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For additional information, there is My. Doyle's Q&A section with relevant quotes:

Quote

13. Was there ever a design push to move the drive assembly (transmission) of German tanks to the rear, as was found in their Russian counterparts?

Yes, at least at the “experimental” level designers were considering rear mounted final drives as part of “power pack concept” to simplify maintenance.  However, front drive was seen as being a good solution no decision had been taken.

Advanced design of this feature can be seen in the E-10, E-25 projects.  “Project B Antrieb” was the name of drive train project that would have combined a 1200 horsepower Maybach engine with a Mekydro 8-speed combined transmission and steering unit for rear drive in the E-100 but this would have involved moving the motor compartment forward and necessitated an entirely new hull shape.


Quote

20. Would it be possible for E-75 and E-50 to have rear transmissions?

Yes, but a lot of design and development work would have been needed. See my answer to Question 13.


EnsignExpendable #18 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 20:27

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Of course there were blueprints. The French got their hands on them and did a whole bunch of designs based off the E-50. Let me try to dig up some that SerB posted.

EnsignExpendable #19 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 20:30

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For now, read my translation of the Wargaming article on the E-50.

http://pastebin.com/xKk59ZUT

SHISHKABOB #20 Posted Jan 22 2013 - 20:32

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View PostDayus, on Jan 22 2013 - 19:48, said:

Using the e75 model used in world of tanks, you physically cannot  fit a transmission in the front of the e75, to do such you would need to nerf the angle on the e75 and ignore its intent.

But i guess you'd rather ignore physics right?

uh dude it's a vidya game, I'm p sure they can make the transmission however large they like.