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I understand the concept of angling but....


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nazran #1 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:25

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I have seen some wonderful, detailed guides explaining angling your tank to maximize bouncing/absorbing shots filled with detailed angles, trigonometry, etc...

My question though pertains to the heat of the battle... How much time do you spend angling your tank once you've reached a spot to fire from? Is it a general concept of just eyeball it as much as possible so you don't distract yourself from the battle, or should you spend the extra time getting a more precise angle?

Mazz #2 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:28

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Any real angle is good, it will rarely be perfect. Remember the shape of your tank and apply it accordingly. Don't angle too much or your expose a shot through your front road wheel into the hull.

With the threat of artillery and the flow of battle, you shouldn't really be static that long that exact positioning will ever matter.

Edited by Mazz, Jan 23 2013 - 17:29.


Arctic_fox99 #3 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:29

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View Postnazran, on Jan 23 2013 - 17:25, said:

I have seen some wonderful, detailed guides explaining angling your tank to maximize bouncing/absorbing shots filled with detailed angles, trigonometry, etc...

My question though pertains to the heat of the battle... How much time do you spend angling your tank once you've reached a spot to fire from? Is it a general concept of just eyeball it as much as possible so you don't distract yourself from the battle, or should you spend the extra time getting a more precise angle?

Depends on the situation though as a rule once you do it enough times it will be automatic that you get right around the right angle without even thinking about it, That said though if your going to just peek and take a snap shot or 2 then gtfo just eyeball it best you can, If you plan to dig in and hull down to slow/stop an advancing force getting the best possible angle may be worth the extra second or so

Legiondude #4 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:30

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If you practice it enough, it becomes instinctual. When I take a position, I leave myself at a general angle, and only need to adjust when an enemy is coming right at me

Hallivolve #5 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:30

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I usually just stick my front plate at a 45 degree angle.

Urban_Cohort #6 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:33

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As far as I can tell, as long as one corner of your tank is slightly advanced towards your target/most direct threat, but not enough to fully expose your side to a good shot, then you're fine.

I know you could certainly do better but my rule on the fly is to angle as much as I can while keeping my front presented as the biggest target to the enemy...sorry if that's confusing.

Avocet #7 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:33

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As others already said, just try to get it generally right. If you take too much time trying to angle perfectly, you will distract yourself from firing and evaluating the overall tactical position.

The most important part is knowing whether your particular tank should be at roughly a 45 degree angle (if you have good side armor), 30-35 degrees (most Germans), or nearly no angle (IS-3, for example, with bad side armor and pre-angled frontal armor).

Skpstr #8 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:34

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Generally, shooting over your front corner is good. With RNG, exact angle isn't that important.

Also take into account the thickness of your side armor vs. front armor. In my PzIII/IV for example, the side and front armor is the same, so I angle that particular tank around 45°.

The KV-1 can take more than the usual angling, but 45° is not ideal because although the side and front armor thickness is the same, the side armor is flat.

It's all about knowing the particular tank you are playing.

Also, remember that a less effective angle is ALWAYS better than no angle at all.

Thompson153 #9 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:35

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As others have said, once you do it enough times, it becomes instinct. I haven't thought about slanting for a long time, but I still do it, every single time an enemy is near, regardless of what tank I am playing. I've found it's just become habit for me to do it, and once you do it enough times, it will become habit for you as well. :)

Staz211 #10 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:35

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generally, you should always be adjusting your angle with regards to the enemy tanks possition to you. So rather than one "big" adjustment to your angle, it should be a series of "small" adjestments. In my experience, these adjustments, especially when in the heat of battle, dont really take more than a second.

Ruukil #11 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:45

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Angle your armour and pay attention to your enemy. The best tankers don't bounce often but the average tanker can be tricked. Pay attenton to where the enemy is aiming on your hull and figure out what move you need to make in order to cause them to bounce. Knowing how long it takes for their gun to reload/settle helps in timing it just right. If you can do that then you can get a few more bounces than you would otherwise. You can never really bounce everything, but you can certainly help.

ohsi #12 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:50

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View PostBlackhawk874, on Jan 23 2013 - 17:30, said:

I usually just stick my front plate at a 45 degree angle.

That will get a VK4502P B killed.

CrabEatOff #13 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:50

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It takes up a good portion of brain time though. Say I identify that the 1 line on Ensk needs to be covered, but my guys in mid have it bottled up. I am in the T29 or T34 or T32. I cannot peek my front hull down that line AND get my turret out without showing some side which is soft, plus I'll get tracked AND I need to get my turret out for 2 reasons, to spot what is down there for my camping useless TDs and to get my own shots in.


So I need to sidescrape. This will involve a few angles. To save time you need the angle of approach, so that when you arrive at the corner in question your front is parallel and side perpendicular to the wall in front of you. If you come in awkwardly you will either lose time rotating, get stuck on the wall, or accidentally expose part of your hull and get volley'd.

Once you are in position, you need to decide what angle you plan to peek at. This angle changes of course depending on the position of the enemy guns. If a gun is high and wide in that little north snipers nest on the Ensk 1 line (you are south spawn), then the angle changes when compared to someone right on the same line of buildings you're using. Of course every side angle also has a corresponding frontal angle and exposure to manage as well.
The goal on a sidescrape is always a 70 degree autobounce and or track shot. If someone was spotted in that nest, then get your side at the angle to bounce them and back out, rear track first until you can return fire. Keep your front hull behind the wall relative to their gun. If no one is in the nest, re-angle for the enemy straight down the wall. At some point here you've probably bounced a shot or been tracked already. People love to shoot rear tracks at impenetrable angles. Wait it out and hit them during their reload, and then pull back into the wall parallel.

This was an example of a very controlled situation, but controlled situations are often the best place to practice these angles. As angling, looking at enemy guns, and use of terrain gets more automatic, you can begin to do more advanced stuff like Mazz is describing and feel it out. That works best on maneuverable tanks (T-54, E-50, T-32, M103, T110E5) as you can be a lot more reactive with the armor than the slower mid tier USA tanks or Germans.
Advanced armor angling would be juking shots into your front plate based on where your enemy is aiming (CarbonWard opened my eyes on that one in these forums), batting multiple enemy shots as you time their reloads, so you know who is going to fire next (MaxL is a master at this, check his replays and you'll likely see him doing it), intentionally using your LFP at a steep angle to bait shots and then beat reloads (9mmcapsule made a nice youtube guide on this, look it up!) which was something I used to great effect on the M103, as long as you don't expose your roadwheel like Mazz mentioned.
So yea, angling and all the estimation in the heat of battle is a good portion of the skillcap.  I don't have a protractor in my head, but angling and its estimation is something usually worth doing (if your tank has armor of course, do not bother with LTs for example). The more you can make it automatic, the better.


FWIW, I learned basic angling with the KV-1 (but could have done more) and learned to sidescrape in the T34/T32 timeperiod. I suggest learning earlier. The KV-1 is very forgiving and has pretty standard RU angles. The T29 is a sidescrape monster, and when fully upgraded its agile enough that the front hull can be used vs tier 7s and low pen tier 8 guns. The VK3601 has enough armor to play ball. The French of course have no armor, and I know nothing about the British. But if I wanted to teach a newbie to bat shots and dominate the DamageDone:DamageReceived ratio I'd have them practice on the KV-1 and the T29.

Urban_Cohort #14 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:51

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View Postohsi, on Jan 23 2013 - 17:50, said:

I usually just stick my front plate at a 45 degree angle.

View PostBlackhawk874, on Jan 23 2013 - 17:30, said:

That will get a VK4502P B killed.
Almost any tank, really...I love it when people point the corner of their tank right at me, now I can shoot into their side instead of their front.

Sadukar09 #15 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:54

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Best place to practice angling is 8 line on Himmelsdorf. That will teach you the basics of static angling.

kebab6597 #16 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 17:58

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Bugger i thought someone else shared my hobby of drowning worms

nazran #17 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 18:05

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This may be a dumb addendum to this but should non turreted TD worry about angling much? Like my SU152 (yes I am T7 noob still) In the circumstances I might find myself needing to angle in a city should I still try to angle my tank the little I can without losing the ability to target the enemy, or as that a waste of time considering the small gun traverse?

Kaeldian #18 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 18:07

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You really have to be aware of your tank to do it right.  But usually it becomes second-nature after a bit.  I don't angle the IS8 much as I actually hurt me with it's ultraweak sides and snowplow front.  But I can angle heavily in my E100 to help protect it's lower hull and let my side spaced armor eat shells.

Urban_Cohort #19 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 18:08

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View Postnazran, on Jan 23 2013 - 18:05, said:

This may be a dumb addendum to this but should non turreted TD worry about angling much? Like my SU152 (yes I am T7 noob still) In the circumstances I might find myself needing to angle in a city should I still try to angle my tank the little I can without losing the ability to target the enemy, or as that a waste of time considering the small gun traverse?
I'd say in a fight, angling should be a distant concern to a TD, but for movement you should keep the angles you present in mind.

SHISHKABOB #20 Posted Jan 23 2013 - 18:09

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Keeping myself constantly well-angled is something I'm still practicing today. It definitely takes up a fair chunk of my brain power while I'm playing, but I think it's very important to always keep it in mind.

It's like I've got three processes running simultaneously in my brain (or at least trying to do that): angling, aiming and strategy. My left hand takes care of angling while my right hand takes care of aiming. Though it's also important to keep in mind how your turret is pointed. With tanks like the E-75 or KT it's important to keep your turret facing your enemy at all times (I think? maybe a slight angle). This is because the sides of their turrets are *incredibly* weak compared to the average pen of their peers. The KT has to worry about this quite a bit due to the 80mm or so of side turret armor. What with tanks having 200mm+ of pen aiming at you, even 80mm at near auto-bounce can be penned easily if you give them the right angle.