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New WN6 Efficiency Formula Out and Making the Rounds


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tornade90 #41 Posted Jan 31 2013 - 18:35

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Echelon ... this is where you're completely wrong. Damage per game is divided per tier.
So a tier 3 dealing 400 dmg with the same winrate will have the same WN6 as a tier 10 with 2500 dmg.

Tosh_0 #42 Posted Jan 31 2013 - 21:07

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View PostWunderwaffen1945, on Jan 24 2013 - 12:19, said:

hate XVM...........It's so unreal, stats mean little to me

and your post is unnecessary drivel..

EchelonIII #43 Posted Feb 01 2013 - 11:33

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View Posttornade90, on Jan 31 2013 - 18:35, said:

Echelon ... this is where you're completely wrong. Damage per game is divided per tier.
So a tier 3 dealing 400 dmg with the same winrate will have the same WN6 as a tier 10 with 2500 dmg.

I know, what I'm saying is that if i have BOTH a tier x and a tier 3 and someone has ONLY a tier X, and we do the same in the tier X, his WN6 would be higher despite him being better than me at absolutely jack nothing.

Let me use a food analogy, if i serve you chicken and ice cream, and somebody serves you the same chicken, i shouldn't be penalized.

Pro_Fetus #44 Posted Feb 02 2013 - 01:55

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Can't wait to see how this turns out.

Philfynz #45 Posted Feb 02 2013 - 20:26

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Be interesting to see how the eff or the wn6 change if you remove any modifier at all based on win rate.  Being that winning/losing a pub game is something you can "influence" but at the end of the day only have 1/15 of any modicum of control in.

The restriction on cap farming makes sense...  but then again...  I've seen a lot of games won/lost because a capper decided to go for the kill/dmg and ended up losing the game because of it.  Capping, and defending a cap...  is important game wise as well.

Tazilon #46 Posted Feb 02 2013 - 20:38

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View PostEndlesspath, on Jan 24 2013 - 12:18, said:

Praetor77 is heralding a new WN6 various statistical experts put together for use in the next XVM iteration, here is the link to same: http://www.koreanran...ciency-formula/

The core of his WN6 commentary is this:

"WN6 formula gives equal importance to frags and damage (although frags is a much more sound statistic, we decided to give them equal weight to avoid kill farming), around 40% of the total score each. The damage is carefully tied to average tier so an awesome player with avg tier 7 and another with avg tier 9 will get similar scores for their damages.
Kills was modified to give less score to players with average tier  played 1-3 (seal clubbers, or pedotankers).
Statistical analysis revealed spots is very important to win games. Players with more avg spots in their overall accounts win more. Maybe it is because they are more aggresive players than the ones with few spots. Spots is less rewarded than in effiiency though, so suicide scouting does not raise WN score. In efficiency, suicide-spotting 10 enemies gave you 2000 Efficiency points, which would  make you a super-unicum.
In WN, that gives you 1250 which makes you an average player. Also, if you suicide-scout, your average damage and kills drop, so you cannot farm WN by suiscouting.
Defense also gives some score, although it is normally 5% of the total, and it is capped at 2.2 to stop defense farming.
Cap is not included since statistical analysis proved that 99% or more of cap points are useless points due to sitting in cap at end of game, and do not contribute to a team win.
Lastly, we have a winrate term, having 48% wins leads this term to have a value of 0. This term is an S-curve, which rewards winrates above 48%, but using winrate as a proxy to reward intangible skills like map awareness, knowing when to track tanks which leads to team kills, protecting arty from scouts, etc. All these lead to team wins but dont show anywhere else. Nevertheless, this term accounts for 0-8% of total WN6 score.

WN6 is impossible to farm, and is also more fair than efficiency, because having a low cap meant it was almost impossible to have a high efficiency score, even if you were an EXTREMELY good player. Efficiency depended on capping too much, which also made it incredibly easy to farm, and also unfair to measure the skills of players who prefer to hunt last enemies instead of sitting in cap at the end of victories."

This should be interesting to see how stats change....

Praetor is blowing smoke up your A#$.  

1)  Capping a base is one of only two ways to win a game yet the formula ignores caps completely.   Think about this:  how many times during a day do you win a game by capping?  Not as many as by killing all the tanks but still a significant amount.  Yet all those people capping get NADA to reward their skillfull  play.

2)  This formula gets farmed CONSISTENTLY!   Go back to those Cap Wins.  How many times when you are capping does a tank NOT cap just to go get more damage in the far reaches of the map?  He is FARMING WIN6 and the other Eff ratings out there.

Niubinator #47 Posted Feb 02 2013 - 20:45

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Indeed.

baxtaz #48 Posted Feb 05 2013 - 09:18

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View PostTazilon, on Feb 02 2013 - 20:38, said:

Praetor is blowing smoke up your A#$.  

1)  Capping a base is one of only two ways to win a game yet the formula ignores caps completely.   Think about this:  how many times during a day do you win a game by capping?  Not as many as by killing all the tanks but still a significant amount.  Yet all those people capping get NADA to reward their skillfull  play.

2)  This formula gets farmed CONSISTENTLY!   Go back to those Cap Wins.  How many times when you are capping does a tank NOT cap just to go get more damage in the far reaches of the map?  He is FARMING WIN6 and the other Eff ratings out there.

When I sit in cap....it takes skill! Thank you for this post....

SnowPanzer #49 Posted Feb 05 2013 - 17:47

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I like the purple guys when we platoon we go out of our way to kill them first. It is fun when some of them cry and moan about it. All for XVM

Gman2900 #50 Posted Feb 05 2013 - 19:31

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View PostSnowPanzer, on Feb 05 2013 - 17:47, said:

I like the purple guys when we platoon we go out of our way to kill them first. It is fun when some of them cry and moan about it. All for XVM

LOL...................................

CoolIce921 #51 Posted Feb 11 2013 - 07:03

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1. penalising cap points is bad
cap points are directly linked with wining game cause you get 0 cap points if you lose.
not rewording cap point actualy favor scouts and mediums cause some tanks (havy) are not able to run around and get smaler tanks tahat hide who knows where on map.
siting in cap and not dieing or geting reseted is a skill. you can not get to cap (usualy) when there is 15 enemy tanks alive.
maximum cap points per game is 100 that means you spent 100 seconds in normal game in small circle and all enemys willing to kill you know where you are and have time to get to kill you.

2. defence points are important
if you do not reset your base in tame you lose.

3. remove statistics for t4 and lower and you will remove most of farming problems.


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themonkeyisgod #52 Posted Feb 11 2013 - 10:13

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it still doesn't add the damage by spotting,  as of right now it make scout pretty worthless since a t50 that suicide will have a better efficient for both formula than a t50 that do passive scouting and have like 3k of damage by spotting...

Black_Triton #53 Posted Feb 11 2013 - 12:32

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Until about the 5K game mark, I didn't know stats even existed except in my own Service Record.

I played the game the way I wanted and my only concern was silver income and XP. So I was a stats noob for a painfully long time and dug myself a deep stats hole.

When I found out about the generic WoT site stats, I got a little concerned. My accuracy was horrible because I was spamming shots all over the place trying to "surpess the enemy".

So I figured that accuracy was the font of all success; more dmg, more kills should equal more victory. I got my accuracy up to 70% (now 72%)

THEN I found out about XVM, etc and I saw that I was, statistically, a horrible player. So I took some time to find out what made those stats tick and adjusted my play until I started to see consistent improvement.

I get myself on the cusp of 1500 CE and the rug gets pulled from under my stats. Now I'm a 1389 CE player. I'll have to readjust play style again, but it sounds like WN6 suits my natural play better.

The thing I wonder about most is why accuracy never fits into any formula?

In my RL tanking days, tankers were judged by how well they knew their machine, tactics, SA, doctrine and crew GUNNERY SKILLS. All of the preceeding help you get your muzzle pointed at the enemy, but you gotta close the equation by putting steel on tgt.

That gets you dmg and kills, sure. But the accuracy should be measured and factored in, as well.

Loyal_Viggo #54 Posted Feb 11 2013 - 13:10

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OP, thanks for the breakdown of how the new system works.

I noticed I lost about 100 efficiency overall since it came out, but my others have been steadily rising for a while.

Cheers

Flashram #55 Posted Feb 12 2013 - 01:41

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As FreakDC said, this formula is a lot more flawed than Efficiency rating.

First of all the Efficiency rating was fixed in regards to cap points farming. They are worth a lot less, but definitely should be worth something, as going capping does destroy enemy focus as they try to go back and defend.

Defense point farming? Seriously? That is the most dumbest thing I heard. You don't reset the cap, you lose, plain and simple. Defense are and should be very important.


fireman2317 has a very good point. Let's all make formulas that suit our play style.

Praetor77 #56 Posted Feb 13 2013 - 15:19

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View PostNehkcist, on Jan 25 2013 - 15:27, said:

My bad. Just Think about M4 platoons using derps!
Just to strengthen my point I pulled the stats of _o7_ .  He is a pure scout player with an 80% WR. I personally think he's awesome and EFF reflects that by giving him unicum status. Now WN6 says he's a baddie. This metric needs some serious rework before I start giving a damn about it.

First of all, if you think he is an awesome scout... omg. Also, his eff is just high because of his capping, nothing else. UMB is full of low tier players, they are mostly secondary accounts used to bash noobs at low tiers. Also, his Efficiency2.0 is 1381. Not unicum to me...

Lastly, WN6 is unfair to scout tanks, but there is no way to fix that, since damage spotted is nowhere in player profile stats. If we had avg damage spotted available, WN would be much more precise than it is. Taht being said, lets see which metric rates a TRUELY AWESOME scout like Redparadize the best:
http://noobmeter.com.../na/RedParadize

Eff2.0: 1744
PR: 1845
WN6: 1948

SURPRISE! :D


Also, if you seriously think Eff2.0 is better than WN6... omw...
I will search to see if any comparison topics have come up, if not I will create my own. Eff2.0 is probably a worse metric than old efficiency was. The damage/tier curve is just terrible. It rewards you for playing with high tier tanks, even if you do less damage compared to the average than with low tier tanks.

And regarding accusations of tayloring the metric to my own personal playstyle... well just lol. If you actually READ the WN thread before making accusations that would be dandy.

http://forum.worldof...e__st__1300#top

67 pages and counting of a group effort to determine the best possible global stats metric. (obviously, per tank stats would be great, but the API does not work well for NA server, and the only per-tank metric available at the moment (noobmeter) is not community maintained, but closed code and formula, so we have no idea how it works and no say in what is right and wrong.



View PostEchelonIII, on Feb 01 2013 - 11:33, said:

I know, what I'm saying is that if i have BOTH a tier x and a tier 3 and someone has ONLY a tier X, and we do the same in the tier X, his WN6 would be higher despite him being better than me at absolutely jack nothing.
Let me use a food analogy, if i serve you chicken and ice cream, and somebody serves you the same chicken, i shouldn't be penalized.

With a tier 3, yes thats true. With you having a 10 and a 5, you should have the same WN6. One of the caveats of having to correct for seal clubbers...
Also, this would be EVEN MORE true for Eff2.0. Eff2.0 punishes you for playing tanks lower than tie 9... I will write up a comparison and post this data today.

Edited by Praetor77, Feb 13 2013 - 16:18.


Praetor77 #57 Posted Feb 13 2013 - 16:23

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View PostImBonzo, on Jan 28 2013 - 23:10, said:

I SMELL something fishy. And not just because he is in SEA server...
He plays almost 2/3 in the LOLtactor and averages 1303 damage.
2/3 of his enemies max at 150 hp. That means he must hit and severly damage a hell of a lot of enemies.
Sure, the rest are high tier tanks, but 2/3 of the denominator would drag down the average if not.

And can one say "alt account"?
Oh, well...to each his own.

EVERY metric can be farmed. Specially global account metrics. This is a fine example. A million tier 1 games to seal club, and quite a few tier 10 games with a tank with nasty alpha (JPZE100) to raise avg damage and avg tier played above those being punished by WN6 (1-3). EVERY global stat metric will be farmable. It´s just that WN6 is the least farmable and most statistically sound.

BB_Alphawolf #58 Posted Feb 13 2013 - 17:28

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View PostNehkcist, on Jan 25 2013 - 12:07, said:

Just by playing Platoons/TC (farming wins) and killstealing it should be easy to farm WN6 imho.
Scout players still get screwed by the system. Spotting 10 enemies gives you 1250 and spotting damage still not considered at all? Awesome
Making cap count for nothing also sucks. Okay, EFF overrated it. But outsmarting a superior force and winning by cap is worth NOTHING in your metric?

This seems to be a custom metric for KV-1S drivers and CW players...

I agree with your points except that it would be hard to farm with TCs unless you play absolutes all the time. There are not enough HP in TCs to farm WN6. In a good TC, they focus fire meaning you might only get a couple shots on one tank. I do agree that base defense should not be capped and capping should be included, but it seems more balanced for those that do not drive scout tanks. A few more tweaks and they should be able to come up with a more sound formula. You will always find someone that does not like the formula.

BB_Alphawolf #59 Posted Feb 13 2013 - 17:38

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Double post :Smile_amazed:

Edited by BB_Alphawolf, Feb 13 2013 - 17:39.


CoolIce921 #60 Posted Feb 17 2013 - 17:30

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but again
cap point are directly linked to wining game
you can get cap points ONLY by wining game.
there is no posible way to get cap points and to lose game.
farming something doesnt automaticly mean some statistic is bad.
i personaly like to kill few enemy and end up caping. now i am forced to hunt some nubs behinde rocks risking to lose game just so get statistics better.




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