Jump to content


T1 Heavy and M6.


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
131 replies to this topic

FireKiller87 #121 Posted Jan 02 2014 - 17:38

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 9219 battles
  • 834
  • Member since:
    05-24-2011

View PostElsie2, on Dec 31 2013 - 17:22, said:

kv 1 is a good tank, very bid slow but fantastic.

 

 

Its great strength is in its armor(hull angled 45 degrees), but it still isn't enough IMO to balance out these facts:

-Weakest AP penetration on the 85mm of all tier 5 heavy tank guns

-Slow reload if you use the 122mm howitzer, letting even low-tier tanks punch you out if they gang up on you, to say nothing of the higher tier tanks you'll meet

-Slow top speed, albeit better than the Churchill 1

-Slow turret rotation and hull rotation, and god forbid you should be tracked while trying to get a lock on a tank circling you

 

Granted it's not a tank to wave off and is deadly if you underestimate it, but sadly it isn't the invincible ubertank noobs believe it is. You could try to go hulldown with it in a higher-tier match, but your options are far more limited compared to the T1 Heavy Tank, and even the other heavy tanks have slightly superior gun depression excepting the Churchill 1.


Edited by FireKiller87, Jan 02 2014 - 17:40.


Angry_Gimp #122 Posted Jan 04 2014 - 00:23

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 23972 battles
  • 193
  • Member since:
    06-18-2012
How did this turn into a thread co

View Postcaramel, on Nov 16 2013 - 13:26, said:


It's far more versatile than the KV-1S and has a better gun. The M18 is faster with better camo but the M6 has better armor, hit points and rate of fire than either the M18 or M36. I have a KV-1S, M18 and M6 and I can tell you that while all three are great, the M6 is the best.

While I don't have a KV-1S, I DO have the M18 and the m6, and I will argue this point. I find it much easier to "hulls down" and pound away at a target with the M18 hellcat {who's turret mantle is actually about 205MM EA} then I do with the infinitely larger M6, the M18 may not have the sheer body armor the M6 does, but if you let it get hulls down, it can be just as devastating as a hulls down M6, and it's a hell of a lot easier to get into that position, while the M6 DOES have a 102MM spaced armor mantlet, thats only in the dead center of the gun just behind and around it, while the rest of the mantlet is just the same solid slab of 102MM armor, {And this isn't even getting into the jumbos mantlet, which is around 330MM EA with the stock turret without angling taken into account, and the M18 and M36 have 76 and 75MM turret armor in the front respetively and 75MM and 76MM of spaced armor for their entire mantlets, and with their sharp angling about 205mm E.A between the two of them. I've bounced shots in my hellcat from KV1S's that I wouldn't dream of trying to bounce in the M6.
-
The m6 is just too large a target to really be overly effective at any range, it's too wide to really hide behind anything, and it's too long. The 90MM is nice, but everything the M6 can do with it's 90MM, the hellcat can do better save brawling and "maybe' on the fly shooting. While the M6 is "Versatile", it's actual role in battle is superscede by the jumbo, with just a slight bit of angling the Jumbo's mere 76MM frontal hull armor is more then enough for that tier to bounce most shots, lacks the major weak points that an M6 does, has a MUCH harder to penetrate turret (Sides of the jumbos turret are still 152MM beside the mantlet, compared to 70MM on the M6's turret beside the mantlet. Ontop of that, the M6 is a bit of an arty magnet with its large size, while it excells at side scraping over any of the others {Save again, maybe the jumbo} and it's 90MM is certainly better then the jumbos, a jumbo can and will out DPM and out survive an M6 at just about every range and engagement if the driver knows what he's doing. While I love the M6, don't get me wrong, I don't find its grind NEARLY as fun to play as the M18 hellcat, or the Jumbo Sherman.

 

How did this turn into a thread comparing a giant heavy to a fast, sniping, camo whoring TD? Two completely different machines and used completely differently. I know I have never ever had my 90MM M6 blaster bounce off a a Hellcat mantlet, hell I don't think I ever bounced off a Jackson either, but I know I have bounced each of their shots off my M6 numerous times. Also vice versa when driving either of those two TD's, I have bounced off the front of a M6 before but but I can't remember a time I've been on the receiving end of that 90MM in my Hellcat and bounced it, the Jackson, maybe a couple of times, but again I don't understand the comparison of these TD's to this heavy.

I haven't driven the KV-1 yet or the KV-1S obviously, but I have faced many of them. Neither are tanks that I fear if driving the US equivalents. If the KV-1 is driven very well then it is a good match and really depends on who can get a bounce with angles, if it isn't driven well then it really isn't close, I'll be able to bounce most shots because they don't know where to shoot me while I pepper them with my crazy ROF. In the M6 vs a KV-1s, it also comes down to the driver, but then again what doesn't?  If I can track and ram them then I will and normally I win, if I can get just 1 miss or bounce from them then it's game over because of their sloooooow reload.



Gtraxeman #123 Posted Jan 10 2014 - 19:57

    Captain

  • Players
  • 33463 battles
  • 1,048
  • [DHO6] DHO6
  • Member since:
    03-27-2013
Once the 90mm is unlocked on the M6, this tank becomes a beast hull down or head on. So anyone skipping to the back of this old thread, this is my opion. From what I have read, easier to go through this tank and then go back through the bigger Shermans and have all the firepower unlocked. Probably best all around tank in my garage at this time.

caeman #124 Posted Jan 10 2014 - 19:59

    Major

  • Players
  • 19938 battles
  • 3,389
  • Member since:
    12-07-2012
The height of the M6 means that there are tank and rocks that can serve as hull-down spots that most other tanks could never use.

Kroz1776 #125 Posted Jan 19 2014 - 20:11

    Captain

  • Players
  • 11868 battles
  • 1,402
  • [GANDP] GANDP
  • Member since:
    05-05-2011

So far I've found that I like my T1 heavy more than I did the KV-1.  Heck, I've gotten more steel walls in it than I did my KV, although this may be due to the fact I had my KV-1 more than a year ago and now I have more experience, but I do find the gun to be adequate and that track shots are essential in this tank.  Shoot out the track and just keep shooting.

 

I don't know about the M6 yet, still grinding out that tank.



Mikemazz007 #126 Posted Jan 25 2014 - 05:28

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 4663 battles
  • 14
  • Member since:
    09-28-2011
The T1 heavy is more of an actual "heavy" than the M6. In almost all games with the T1, you fufill the role as a heavy. With the m6, if you are at the top, then you play as a heavy. If you are at the bottom, you are mostly secondary line, or support.

Belicia #127 Posted Jan 27 2014 - 13:18

    Captain

  • Players
  • 4052 battles
  • 1,955
  • Member since:
    11-07-2013

T1 Heavy is a good tank, as long as you don't get flanked.

 

The M6 is a pretty good tank with good frontal armour and a hard-hitting 90mm gun.

 

I got my only Radley Walter's in an M6 (in a Defeat) so it's definitely good enough to carry a team.



FireKiller87 #128 Posted Jan 29 2014 - 05:57

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 9219 battles
  • 834
  • Member since:
    05-24-2011

If there's one thing a T1/M6 cannot stand, it's getting flanked. No questions asked, the only flankers I ever just laugh off are Panzer 1Cs.

The T1 also falls into a support role at higher tiers, as the front armor is generally worth something only at tier 5. The last time I bounced a tier 6 or 7 was either autobounce or a really stupid KV-1S aiming at what he/she thought was my lower glacis. Trying to fill the heavy tank role past tier 5 in the T1 is a fantastic waste of the 76mm chaingun WG's nice enough to give you.

 

Also, the tracks stick out juuuuuuust far enough that if you've got solid cover, you can possibly bait enemies into just blasting apart your tracks while dealing no damage. While you're immobilized for the duration, your mates will hopefully take the hint to hit them from the flank, and if the enemy wants to do damage to you he'll likely have to expose his tank to your gun.

 



IdahoRenegade #129 Posted Feb 03 2014 - 17:56

    Captain

  • Players
  • 21192 battles
  • 1,542
  • [FYYFF] FYYFF
  • Member since:
    03-21-2012

View PostTex_Arcana, on Feb 01 2013 - 18:32, said:

All I know is the M6 is a lot better than people give it credit.
I like it better than the KV1S.
Primarily because you shoot at things that are more than 30 yards away and have a reasonable chance of hitting/penning them (That's with the 90mm of course).
Yes in most cases the M6 should be considered "Support" ; but it's a GOOD support tank.
And I sure as heck don't mind it when I'm top tank in a tier 6-down battle.
I especially like busting up KV1S's that try to steamroll their way through a match; their armour is even easier to pen than the M6.

+1, my feelings exactly.  -1S has terrible aim time and accuracy, I like a gun I can hit something with at over 50 yards.  It's gun also seems as if it loses velocity quickly...I get lots of bounces on medium range shots at targets I pen with the M6.  I also find it can take some decent abuse on the frontal armor, but yes, hull done is much preferred.  Gun on the M6 is quite accurate, pens well, aim time settles pretty quickly and reloads in decent time.  The tank also is quite maneuverable.  I find it much more flexible than the -1S, you aren't tied to just knife-range peekaboom to contribute.  I have a much better win rate with the M6 than my other tier 6 heavies.

 

Like any other tank, when not top tier, it needs to play support rather than front line.  But it can do very well doing so.



MaximilianVoss #130 Posted Feb 03 2014 - 18:43

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 14826 battles
  • 153
  • Member since:
    04-08-2012

I don't have T1 or M6, but i never consider these tanks a big threat. Frontal armor can be trollish but most people forget to angle it.

But then again, angling it reveals your very weak side armor, which is your biggest weak point.

 

They have good RoF and all round gun-stats, and i consider them a decent tanks, but nothing more. Neither of them can go toe to toe against kv-1 or t-150 for instance. except at long range maybe. However, they are pretty decent, and a good moneymakers as I heard. My friend went that line, and he liked them both very much.

The best thing about them is that they lead to T29, which is the best T7 heavy.



iamajellydonut #131 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 17:08

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 13099 battles
  • 913
  • Member since:
    04-09-2012

We all know that the M6 is a good support tank once you achieve the 90mm. That much is concrete and done with. However, what I see a lot of chatter about is T1 bashing and T1 vs KV-1 arguments. Both of which are really [edited]dumb. The KV-1 and the M1 represent the best tier 5s in the game. Maybe there's a bit of personal sentiment in that statement, but the whole truth is that only the T49 and BDR can give them a run for their money.

 

For both arguments, most of it boils down to "papperthin and pew pew gun". This is... I don't want to incur the wrath of the mods, but safe to say this thought is wrong. True, in a straight-up fight, the KV-1 is probably the scarier tank. The T1 is rarely known as that "oh crap" beast that you turn tail and spam "requesting fire" at. This is because not being is straight-up fight is what the T1 excels at. The final engine of the T1 truly takes it to new heights and makes it the most dastardly beast this side of the Mississippi. Regardless of its armor, the T1's gun has too low of an alpha with too high of a rate of fire to engage in a straight-up fight with most tanks. The engine solves this problem and enables it to get into really weird circumstances, make impressive pushes, and to easily transition from complete opposite sides of the battlefield.



FireKiller87 #132 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 22:54

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 9219 battles
  • 834
  • Member since:
    05-24-2011

View PostMaximilianVoss, on Feb 03 2014 - 18:43, said:

I don't have T1 or M6, but i never consider these tanks a big threat. Frontal armor can be trollish but most people forget to angle it.

But then again, angling it reveals your very weak side armor, which is your biggest weak point.

 

They have good RoF and all round gun-stats, and i consider them a decent tanks, but nothing more. Neither of them can go toe to toe against kv-1 or t-150 for instance. except at long range maybe. However, they are pretty decent, and a good moneymakers as I heard. My friend went that line, and he liked them both very much.

The best thing about them is that they lead to T29, which is the best T7 heavy.

 

Solution: Angle it at approximately 20 degrees to either side. Your front armor becomes approximately 89-90mm(that is, the upper strip of armor; anyone dumb enough to shoot your curved bow plate will likely bounce), and your sides are autobounce to most guns you'll face. 

 

@jellydonut: I'd have to say you're generally correct about the KV-1. While I usually decide to take KV-1s head-on if possible to deny them the chance to angle and bounce my gun(and attempt to ram them if needed since the KV-1 is a good 15 tons lighter than the T1), their gun is slightly more damaging on penetration and it still fires at a relatively decent speed. Adding to that is that a lot of players at tier 5 do not know where to shoot the front of the KV-1(the armor strip above the upper front plate) to damage it and may still have trouble penetrating from the side, whereas against a T1 all you need to do is expose the side armor to consistently damage it. I think, however, that the ridiculous RoF that the 76mm gun has is more of a benefit in a straight fight, since you generally can put out two or three shots worth a total of 220-330 damage while your enemy can generally only shoot you once. It's also useful at sniping ranges, since you can easily put down an immobilized target in less than a minute of continuous fire, but the accuracy at ranges past 400m tends to be suboptimal.

I do feel that in a T1 you have a slight edge in extreme close quarters thanks to the tough armor, good speed and heavy weight allowing you to deal at least 250-300 ramming damage at full speed to many enemies you'll face, but in return you'll also be taking damage if you attack like that. When I drive my T1, I generally prefer to stand off and snipe targets whenever I can, and only get really aggressive in the mid-late game where many tanks are damaged, including the tougher heavy tanks, and if I've been doing it right I should still have full or most of my health, which is a huge advantage. It's also fast enough to traverse a good 1/3 or 1/2 of a map to defend the base if needed, something none of the other tier 5 heavy tanks can really accomplish. 






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users