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Official 8.0 Matchmaker Discussion

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dojochuck #61 Posted Oct 25 2012 - 17:22

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View Posthusband, on Oct 20 2012 - 00:29, said:

That is useful information that it is 2 specific tanks you are experiencing this with.
I have 28 vehicles in my garage so I thought it was across the board.

The main thing that will make a BIG difference to your win rate immediately is not having 6th sense. Repair is crucial but you should spend the gold and convert your Commander to 6th sense at the next re-train sale (100g instead of 200g)

There is no good reason not to have complex eqpt on your Tier 7s.
On my T29 I had a 56% win rate at the end. I did have gun rammer, laying drive and optics  
for example - you vs me (with 6th sense and complex)

I see you 35-40 m before you see me.
I shoot before you even know I am there. because of the laying drive and my gunners dead eye- I'll hit you for 200 and an increased chance of a critical

If am within your spotting range - I will know when you see me and start reversing back out of range and shoot again before your recticle has closed. - another 200 off you.

if we then start engaging - unless you have someone else spotting me; I'll keep hitting you outside your view range 7 shots for every 6 of yours because my gun rammer and laying drive mean I have more shells in the chamber with closed recticle than you have.

I can see 10% farther, shoot 10% faster and be 10% more accurate and do 5% more criticals - and so can every other experienced Tier 7 tank.

If you can't afford to have complex equipment at tier 6 upwards, you are at a disadvantage to you opponents who have more than 6000 battles and do have the necessaries. If you are top tiered without equipment you end up putting your team at a 10% disadvantage too :(

a solution is
1) buy a T14 without crew 9 (you can use your T29 at no penalty) and make money to buy the equipment at the next sale
2) buy a premium medium as well for to increase your T20 crew skills too, and buy equipment
3) Get XVM installed - you will notice that many (not all) T8 premiums like Lowe, KV5, SP and T34 are even less experienced than you and cannot be relied upon to carry their MM weight
4) play more varieties of tanks ,your experienced opponents like me already know the weakspots and shortcomings of most tanks on the field
5) watch the 3 tank academy videos this weekend

Thank you, that is very helpful information.  Unfortunately, being a non-premium player and having just bought a T32, I'm short on credits.  I'll have to see about getting a T14 for credit farming.  Already seen the tank academy videos, but they're only marginally helpful in pub matches.  (as in, I'll be the only guy on my team using those skills)

About the 6th sense, do you think it's more useful than recon?  I'm ready for a 2nd skill on the T32 crew and I wasn't sure which one I should train first.

So, how about some advice on how to deal with being on a team of retards, which is my general problem?  For example, half your team rushes out and dies within first minute or two of battle.  Or all your heavies take the long way around the map uphill, while the rest of the team tries to hold the map and gets rolled with heavies effectively out of play until it's too late.  Or entire team goes the same way, always to one side of course, leaving the whole map open, while the enemy team holds them off with a few heavies and TD's, and rolls freely through the rest of the map to surround my team or cap.  I would think that a random MM would put these dummies on both teams, but nope, it's my team 5 times out of 6, and that's what's killing me.  I really can't figure out how to overcome this, even if I did twice the damage, and I can't figure out why they're not more evenly distributed between my team and the red team.

This is my only complaint about MM.  I don't want the special ed team more than 50% of the time.

dojochuck #62 Posted Oct 26 2012 - 23:48

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Just a quick update for any of you at WG who may read this:  My win rate is running still at about 20%.  Any one player on a team of 15 can't possibly be bad enough to make his team lose 80% of the time, unless of course he's team killing, which I am not.  Please fix this.  I used to love this game up until a couple of weeks ago.

Pyslur #63 Posted Oct 28 2012 - 05:18

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I'm in the same position as dojochuck. When I started WoT, I puttered about with a 46% or so win rate, until I started "getting it". As my tactics started to improve, so did my win rate. Slowly but surely I fought my way up to 50%. At over 4000 games, I'm currently in the 53-56% range for the tanks I drive regularly. A contributing factor to this is that over the last 2000 games or so, I've seen relatively fair and random distributions of my tanks in battles.

Lately, however, I've noticed a change, especially with my E8 (100% crew with 3 skills each / rammer, gun layer, and binocs), in which I have nearly 1200 battles. I've dropped from 55% to 53% in a relatively short period of time because I've been consistently placed in T8 battles. I'm used to strings of bottom 1/4 placement but lately these have been the overwhelming majority of my battles. Let's face it, an E8 driven even with optimum tactics is not going to be a deciding influence in the outcome of T34's and Tiger II's slugging it out.

Without an ability to much influence the outcomes, my win rate has settled to a bit less than 50% and I can only think that something has changed in how MM is placing this tank. Heaven forbid that MM is actually placing better than average tankers by default in higher tier matches. The ability to influence the outcome of a battle through superior skills and the challenge of continuing to improve is what keeps me with WoT. Take this away and there isn't much to keep me around.

KilljoyCutter #64 Posted Oct 28 2012 - 13:20

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View PostPyslur, on Oct 28 2012 - 05:18, said:

I'm in the same position as dojochuck. When I started WoT, I puttered about with a 46% or so win rate, until I started "getting it". As my tactics started to improve, so did my win rate. Slowly but surely I fought my way up to 50%. At over 4000 games, I'm currently in the 53-56% range for the tanks I drive regularly. A contributing factor to this is that over the last 2000 games or so, I've seen relatively fair and random distributions of my tanks in battles.

Lately, however, I've noticed a change, especially with my E8 (100% crew with 3 skills each / rammer, gun layer, and binocs), in which I have nearly 1200 battles. I've dropped from 55% to 53% in a relatively short period of time because I've been consistently placed in T8 battles. I'm used to strings of bottom 1/4 placement but lately these have been the overwhelming majority of my battles. Let's face it, an E8 driven even with optimum tactics is not going to be a deciding influence in the outcome of T34's and Tiger II's slugging it out.

Without an ability to much influence the outcomes, my win rate has settled to a bit less than 50% and I can only think that something has changed in how MM is placing this tank. Heaven forbid that MM is actually placing better than average tankers by default in higher tier matches. The ability to influence the outcome of a battle through superior skills and the challenge of continuing to improve is what keeps me with WoT. Take this away and there isn't much to keep me around.

I suspect the glut of premium tanks at tier 8 has a lot to do with this.  Since most of them get some kind of hand-holdy matchmaking, they end up top-tier a lot, and your tier 6 tanks are getting sucked up into those matches as filler, with no brakes on the process because MM has no memory and no mechanism to avoid streaks.

PostCommander #65 Posted Oct 29 2012 - 17:10

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I have this morning been in two games with 5 arty per side and 6 perside as well. This is getting crazy! Cold war era tanks with specs and armor to be historic and arty is given satilite view and the ability to zoom in. Takes all the fun out of a good battle. I would sugest to leave arty in but only 2 max per side and take away the zoom in function. REAL arty has a danger zone of 100 meters and even to this day not able to pin point their shots. Bring the battle back to tanks, with arty support, not the other way around!

joel9507 #66 Posted Oct 30 2012 - 19:59

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Is the 8.1 matchmaking matrix out yet?

Karvalegoff #67 Posted Oct 31 2012 - 00:46

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I think they need to tighten up MM a little more and make matches pick 2 tiers only, having a 3 tier spread is too much, you're either viable or you bounce 3/4th of your shots on tanks you have no business playing against.

Edited by Karvalegoff, Oct 31 2012 - 00:46.


Valas1 #68 Posted Nov 01 2012 - 13:43

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For 8.1 British Light tanks, will the slower Tier 4 Valentine Mk3 get tossed into Tier 7-8 matches like my A-20 or M5 do, as a scout? It has thicker armor than most lights, but at 24 kph, it won't have the speed or agility to avoid the big guns. Or is the Matchmaker going to be revamped again?

Digital_Malamute #69 Posted Nov 01 2012 - 21:53

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Tier 5 and 6 MM is trash again.

Ezz #70 Posted Nov 02 2012 - 05:08

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View Postmp31b30q9, on Nov 01 2012 - 21:53, said:

Tier 5 and 6 MM is trash again.
It'll get better as people grind the brits.

Digital_Malamute #71 Posted Nov 02 2012 - 05:12

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View PostEzz, on Nov 02 2012 - 05:08, said:

It'll get better as people grind the brits.

I am !!!!

And it's  :arta:

_Conan #72 Posted Nov 02 2012 - 23:13

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can we get this in english please http://forum.worldof...p?/topic/41221-

kriegsmaster17 #73 Posted Nov 02 2012 - 23:38

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Hey wargaming can u please limit the number of arty per game to 3 or below im really tired of playing sand river with 9 arty per side

XMdead #74 Posted Nov 03 2012 - 00:22

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When the tighter spread came out, things were good.  Then came the increase in bouncing and several (mostly premium) tanks that got tweaked to bounce a lot... and it brought us back to having trouble penetrating.

I look forward to the day when the spread is brought down to 1 tier difference.  Then skill will be more of a factor than random luck... that is, unless more tanks are released that are impenetrable or bounce like crazy.

SynfulSun #75 Posted Nov 03 2012 - 02:01

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I see nothing wrong with the tier 2 spread, with the top gun on most tanks you can pen everyone frontally, now that you can get prem rounds for credits it is even more balanced, in case of heavily armored vehicles then you can try flanking and shooting at their rear.

no0bsause #76 Posted Nov 03 2012 - 15:46

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Fix Matchmaking! Look at this screenshot, it's SO UNBALANCED. One team gets 3 extra tier 8's (top tier) and a scout. The other team gets 3 less tier 8's, a tier 6, AND no scout. Seriously, how can this happen? FIX MATCHMAKING, this is so ridiculous.

Posted Image

th3_mach1ne #77 Posted Nov 03 2012 - 19:59

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MM is SO much better than it was before the revamp, but it still needs work.  T4 and T6 Lights in particular get totally screwed on a regular basis.  I doubt things are much better for the amx75 than the 12t, but I don't have one so I can't really comment on that.

What I can comment on is my Leo getting tossed into matches full of t9s.  Maybe a t50 can handle those better, but the Leo lacks the acceleration and agility to stay alive for more than three seconds once it is targeted, and players that have made it to t9 are generally good enough to notice my attempts to flank.  Even worse are the t9 matches in which there is no arty and few scouts, since the Leo can't reliably penetrate anything except arty and other lights.

Also, the amx12t's matchmaking would be laughable, except the joke is now on me.  It sometimes gets placed in matches with t10s, and regularly with t9s and t8s.  It is a fun flanker, but it has nowhere near enough HP or speed to allow it to contribute in such matches.  With its second gun it can penetrate up to t9's if it is in a good flanking position AND the enemy is distracted, but if either condition is not met it will only bounce a few times before getting two-shot.

Both the Leo and the 12t can be a lot of fun and contribute to their teams, but that is often not the case in a large amount of the matches in which they are currently placed.

MassiveHyperion #78 Posted Nov 04 2012 - 19:23

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View Postzazel, on Oct 18 2012 - 13:05, said:

edit*  opened the chart and it looks as if thats what you intend for my tanks.  Seems a little excessive to me as I can barely move in most games without getting one shot sniped.  I vary rarely get in a battle with the t50 that has less than t7, maybe a stronger chance of lower lvl battles, as what I see if fewer tanks at t7-9 and I always get dragged in to fill out match numbers. Thats my opinion.

I agree, I just finished grinding the VK1602 and it was a painful slog.  So many battles with Tier 7, 8 and 9 tanks.  The VK1602 only has a tier 3 gun, slows down a lot in the corners and gets one shotted.  Brutal.

WarGaming, PLEASE, PLEASE cap the Tier 4 scouts at Tier 8 Battles, or even Tier 7.  I think they should really be a maximum 3 Tier spread in a game, not 5.  Or at least award a mcuh higher XP value for Tier 4& 5 scouts in Tier 9 games.  Really all we can do is scout the enemy and hope we don't get one shotted.

Looking at the Battle Tiers for the VK2801 is scary, why is it put into higher Tier battles than a Tier 6 and 7 light Tank?   And it's never in a Battle tier 5 or 6? Again, that's just mean.

Edited by MassiveHyperion, Nov 04 2012 - 19:24.


Moonrider #79 Posted Nov 04 2012 - 22:01

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View PostMassiveHyperion, on Nov 04 2012 - 19:23, said:

I agree, I just finished grinding the VK1602 and it was a painful slog.  So many battles with Tier 7, 8 and 9 tanks.  The VK1602 only has a tier 3 gun, slows down a lot in the corners and gets one shotted.  Brutal.

Why are you going down a line of DEDICATED SCOUTS if you don't like the scout game play? The dedicated scouts are DESIGNED to be able to compete in the higher tiers, and are the very hardest tanks to play WELL in this game. The tough matchmaking is WHY we scout tankers play them. Personally I sold my M5 because they took the tier nines away from it, and it was too EASY to play after that. The scout tank matchmaking is supposed to be tough. Play something else if you can't hack it.

buras #80 Posted Nov 04 2012 - 22:01

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so, i think match maker went full retard here
http://i.imgur.com/WkaAv.jpg
hwo do you explain this balance?





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