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Official 8.0 Matchmaker Discussion

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th3_mach1ne #81 Posted Nov 04 2012 - 23:08

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View PostMoonrider, on Nov 04 2012 - 22:01, said:

Why are you going down a line of DEDICATED SCOUTS if you don't like the scout game play? The dedicated scouts are DESIGNED to be able to compete in the higher tiers, and are the very hardest tanks to play WELL in this game. The tough matchmaking is WHY we scout tankers play them. Personally I sold my M5 because they took the tier nines away from it, and it was too EASY to play after that. The scout tank matchmaking is supposed to be tough. Play something else if you can't hack it.

SO I HEARD ADDING CAPS IS GOOD FOR MAKING POINTS SO I THOUGHT I'D TYPE IN ALL CAPS SO I CAN BE SUPER POIGNANT.

Seriously, you just come off as a douchebag, stop that.

As for an actual rebuttal:  There is a difference between "challenging" and "hard."  It is challenging to scout in most cases.  It is damn hard to scout when half the things on the field can one-shot you and you can't even hope to pentrate them.  Challenges are fun, hard is just work.

Edited by th3_mach1ne, Nov 04 2012 - 23:11.


steelwolf9597 #82 Posted Nov 05 2012 - 04:12

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HEY! Any game creators or whomever runs this beast game, just a suggestion for the convenience for some players, and even profit for you guys by at least 200%, you guys should create WoT for XBOX 360, Playstation, and even Nintendo. I'm not always allowed on a computer and all I have is an iPad, and I'm absolutely positive others can relate when I say they REALLY want to play. Just a thought, and people WILL buy it too, so there's a definite profit for Wargaming.net.......please consider it :):):):):)

Moonrider #83 Posted Nov 05 2012 - 16:37

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View Postth3_mach1ne, on Nov 04 2012 - 23:08, said:


As for an actual rebuttal:  There is a difference between "challenging" and "hard."  It is challenging to scout in most cases.  It is damn hard to scout when half the things on the field can one-shot you and you can't even hope to pentrate them.  

No, that's when it GETS challenging. The rest is just "easy-mode."

Red_Raven_168 #84 Posted Nov 06 2012 - 06:02

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please update this thread with the current matchmaking chart

the new British light tanks have special matchmaking that is not reflected in the current chart

(they receive normal medium/heavy/TD matchmaking for their tier, not light tank matchmaking)

captking #85 Posted Nov 06 2012 - 15:17

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View Postfablkak, on Oct 21 2012 - 04:04, said:

I'm sorry to say this but WG your MM is still as broken as ever.

Just look at this

Team one:
3 tier X
3 tier IX
2 tier 8
1 tier v scout
6 arty

Team two:
6 tier X
2 tier IX
1 tier v scout
6 arty.
Spoiler                     

Keep in mind due to the Arty getting really tight battle tiers they are stuck in the few games they qualify for.  

View PostKilljoyCutter, on Oct 28 2012 - 13:20, said:

I suspect the glut of premium tanks at tier 8 has a lot to do with this.  Since most of them get some kind of hand-holdy matchmaking, they end up top-tier a lot, and your tier 6 tanks are getting sucked up into those matches as filler, with no brakes on the process because MM has no memory and no mechanism to avoid streaks.
Actually,  there was an algorithim added in the 7.X version that is supposed to not let a player be stuck on the bottom all the time.  was this removed?

View PostRed_Raven_168, on Nov 06 2012 - 06:02, said:

please update this thread with the current matchmaking chart

the new British light tanks have special matchmaking that is not reflected in the current chart

(they receive normal medium/heavy/TD matchmaking for their tier, not light tank matchmaking)


I would like to see this,  the TEST server they weren't

Edited by captking, Nov 06 2012 - 15:17.


dojochuck #86 Posted Nov 06 2012 - 18:46

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View PostKilljoyCutter, on Oct 28 2012 - 13:20, said:

I suspect the glut of premium tanks at tier 8 has a lot to do with this.  Since most of them get some kind of hand-holdy matchmaking, they end up top-tier a lot, and your tier 6 tanks are getting sucked up into those matches as filler, with no brakes on the process because MM has no memory and no mechanism to avoid streaks.

Something really fishy, for sure.  Just had yet another string of 8 consecutive losses in my T20 yesterday.  It's a crying shame - it was my favorite tank before these shenanigans started, but now I don't know whether to shelve it or just sell it.  As 6.7% of a team, 8 consecutive losses should be a statistical outlier even for the worst player, but they occur regularly for me now, specifically with that tank.

Edit: Just did the math - with a 50-50 chance of "randomly" being placed on the winning team, you chance of 8 consecutive losses is 0.0039, or 0.39%.  (not accounting for draws for simplicity sake).  Obviously, chance of this streak is higher for bad players, but only marginally.

Edited by dojochuck, Nov 06 2012 - 18:53.


Moonrider #87 Posted Nov 06 2012 - 18:59

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View Postdojochuck, on Nov 06 2012 - 18:46, said:

Something really fishy, for sure.  Just had yet another string of 8 consecutive losses in my T20 yesterday.  It's a crying shame - it was my favorite tank before these shenanigans started, but now I don't know whether to shelve it or just sell it.  As 6.7% of a team, 8 consecutive losses should be a statistical outlier even for the worst player, but they occur regularly for me now, specifically with that tank.

My surmise is that you've failed to adapt your play with that tank to the post-physics realities of the maps. There's new paths and new avenues of attack created as the maps are updated to allow you to utilize "real" physics more effectively. It's a major change, and everyone is taking a hit to their win rates as they adjust and adapt.

My winrate definitely slowed it's upward trend for the last month, in ALL my tanks. Things are picking back up as I adjust though.

Red_Raven_168 #88 Posted Nov 07 2012 - 05:32

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View Postcaptking, on Nov 06 2012 - 15:17, said:

I would like to see this,  the TEST server they weren't
if its a fake

its a dern good one

http://forum.worldof...t/#entry2972509

sargentmki #89 Posted Nov 07 2012 - 11:26

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There has to be a logical reason for my massive string of loses with a single tank i own. I would love to blame my own lack of knowledge, and skill but game after game my team is down to 0>5 within minutes.

I started today with the already horrible win rate of 38%! on my easy 8 sherman, and after todays day of grinding, it has dropped to 25%!!! You could say i just need to get better and carry my team, but as i said before my teams get themselves killed almost automatically within the first 5 minutes of battle. I do just fine on other tanks, which i hold on average 49%-48% win ratios, with my favorite the m4 at a clean 50%. I also notice the sheer lack of competence with most of my team. Often i find myself being the only one who seemed to play the game before, with large amounts of people doing crackpot tactics, and making dumb decisions that i thought where gone after t2 tank fights.


So i have been on the losing trend so starkly compared to any other tank i have to only assume the game is pitting me with teams that are lacking in competence and possibly damage and combat effectiveness. Because after around 30+ loses for today to under 10 wins, with most loses blowouts, i can only point ether to some massive incompetence upon myself, lottery winning bad luck, or unseen issues with the matchmaking system.


At the end of the day, the massive amounts of continuous loses hurts my confidence to play and advance because it seems to only be at a steady setting and not getting any better regardless of how i play within these games. Which tends to end up me getting killed to 4-5 enemy heavy tanks or something equally as unfair.

dojochuck #90 Posted Nov 08 2012 - 01:37

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View PostMoonrider, on Nov 06 2012 - 18:59, said:

My surmise is that you've failed to adapt your play with that tank to the post-physics realities of the maps. There's new paths and new avenues of attack created as the maps are updated to allow you to utilize "real" physics more effectively. It's a major change, and everyone is taking a hit to their win rates as they adjust and adapt.

My winrate definitely slowed it's upward trend for the last month, in ALL my tanks. Things are picking back up as I adjust though.

You surmise wrong, although I appreciate your input.  You missed the part about the statistics, where it doesn't make sense to have such long strings of losers, even for the worst player.  I just came from a fresh string of 6 straight losers in my T32, just a few minutes ago.  Now, maybe I am in fact a crappy player, but did I just start making all of my teammates crappy players as well, since the 8.0 update?  That would be a pretty good trick, and I'd like to hear someone explain how I pulled that off.  I sure don't know.

I should also mention that the strings of losses continue for a while no matter how I play, and no matter how much damage I do or how many kills I get.  Killed 0 and bounced everything?  Loss.  Killed 5 and did 2700 damage?  Loss.  So, the "you're just not playing well" explanation doesn't hold water.

Flashram #91 Posted Nov 08 2012 - 03:18

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Where is the 8.1 matchmaker?

Legedi #92 Posted Nov 08 2012 - 19:46

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Really the only problem I have with the current MM that makes me rage is playing my T9 and T10 tanks, and getting into 4+ T7/8 arty per team games. Every time I queue those tanks I just pray I don't get into one of those games. If WG's solution to this is the T10 arties to fix the MM spread they really need to make that a priority. I've been having fun driving my T6 and T7 tanks more just because the chances of getting those massive arty games is much much lower.

Digital_Malamute #93 Posted Nov 09 2012 - 09:52

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British Crusader MM is broke:

Posted Image

Light tank = Heavy tank ??

Light tank + TD = 2 Heavy tanks ??

PMR100 #94 Posted Nov 10 2012 - 01:50

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Here we go again.  It was nice while it lasted, but since 8.1 update match maker is .... up again.  So once again i have to be .... around about it.  My team gets zero fast scouts and enemy team gets 2 fast scouts.  Enemy scouts rush down the middle, expose arty on my team and from 5 arty we are down to 1 arty.  .... you match maker.  Devs please fix the match maker to 8.0 match maker because this sucks right now.

Edited by PMR100, Nov 10 2012 - 02:01.


dojochuck #95 Posted Nov 10 2012 - 21:28

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Just had 6 straight losses in my T32, while trying to just get one win for the X5.  This happens to me pretty much every day, and it's a load of crap.  Is anyone from WG reading this stuff?  I suspect they are giving unfavorable MM to non-prem accounts.  I really can't come up w/ any other explanation for this garbage that portends to be random and evenly balanced.  It is neither.  Hello, WG?  Are you going to fix this?  How many games can a player have where they do well but lose anyway, before they realize that something is stacking the odds against them?

husband #96 Posted Nov 10 2012 - 22:05

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I have premium and still up to 15 losses in a row at weekends

indigowhale #97 Posted Nov 11 2012 - 15:42

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One of the issues I have with MM is the way tier 9 tanks get constantly thrown into tier 10 matches.  It makes that entire tier pretty unenjoyable when they have to face the endless hordes of OP tier 10 meds and TDs more often than not.  It seems that tier 9s have the unique problem of rarely getting to play at their own level, more so than any other tier in the game, and they certainly aren't compensated for it.

With the huge influx of tier 10 tanks, I don't think its unreasonable to create a new bracket for tier 10 only so that tier 9s aren't constantly pulled into tier 10 matches.  Barring that, lower all tier 9 repair costs since they have a very harsh MM.

dojochuck #98 Posted Nov 12 2012 - 05:40

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What about tier 8's in tier 10 matches?  That's even worse, but I'm not complaining about that anyway.  Just the fact that losing streaks of 6, 10, or even 15 are so common, it means that something is seriously flawed with the matching engine.  Try winning that consistently at a casino and see if you don't leave with broken legs.  Just had 6 straight losses w/ my T28 proto, and another 6 straight losses w/ my M4.  

They should use the number-line system for tier bracketing.  If you're top tier, you get -1, mid tier =0, and bottom +1.  Then keep a count (in the system), and say you get to + or - 3, then you should get placed in the opposite tier bracket to make sure you don't spend too much time in a low or high bracket.  If they already do something like that, then there is another problem, and from my experience, bracketing is not the problem.  I can be top tier and get 4 kills repeatedly, and lose over and over and over.  Something else is clearly not random, and clearly not balanced.

I've also noticed, particularly this weekend while I was grinding my M4 for the double credits, that it happened repeatedly that I'd have one heavy on my team, and 2 or 3 on the other team.  Obviously heavies have the most HP, and I don't know if they balance the HP on both teams, but it sure doesn't look like it to me.  If your team constantly starts out w/ less HP, you have a clear disadvantage.

Ezz #99 Posted Nov 12 2012 - 05:47

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View Postdojochuck, on Nov 12 2012 - 05:40, said:

Something else is clearly not random, and clearly not balanced.
Indeed - given a large enough sample the results come down to your ability relative to the average pubbie - so not random at all. The MM, while struggling with population shape, does indeed provide a very good framework for players to show their ability.

Also, the wiki gives a good grounding as to how the MM balances team weights.

TachikomaO_O #100 Posted Nov 12 2012 - 23:57

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MM is very biased.  If you find yourselves constantly being put in teams that (rush to death, scatters at start, camp behind argues, afk, trash talking / tking ...etc.  you can compare your teammates' stats with your opponents and notice a huge gap: 100 games vs. 10,000 games), chances are you (or that one tank you are driving) is on MM's hit list.  And you probably won't win another game till your win ratio drop to a certain %.  Some people gets on this hit list more likely than others. Ask yourself if you have done anything that could upset WG in anyway.  For example, play for free and encourage others to do the same.  If WG can discourage player like you to leave the game they will do it.  It is for the good of the business after all.





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