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More Ammunition Types For Some(?) Vehicles

Ammunition HEAT APCR HE

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Twan #1 Posted Feb 19 2013 - 23:58

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Hi all

I thought it might be good for variety to give vehicles (some anyway, not going to list all the possible candidates for this) an extra ammunition type.

For example, right now the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56 on the Tiger and the multiple other vehicles that use this weapon can fire three different rounds:

PzGr 39:

Cost per shell:  252

Penetration range:  99 - 165

PzGr 40 APCR:

Cost per shell:  4,000

Penetration range:  128-214

SprGr 18 HE:

Cost per shell:  252 (same price as the standard AP round, interesting, but that's not the point)

Performance of this round doesn't really matter for this topic

APCR at 4,000 credits per shot is quite expensive in this case.

I propose to introduce a kind of "mid range" round that can be bought for credits or gold, similar to APCR.

The mid range round, a HEAT shell, could perhaps cost 2,000 credits, or whatever, based on its characteristics, and have (obviously) reduced penetration performance.

I feel that more ammunition types available for certain vehicles would make for more variety.  Another bonus is that you can use the HEAT shells for long range work instead of the PzGr 39 since distance is not a factor for HEAT performance, even though they get no normalization, since the penetration increase would likely not be much from the standard PzGr 39 round, but it would retain its full performance over any distance.  It may allow more interesting choices.

I'm sure that if this was implemented they could find a proper balance on each type of HEAT shell's performance characteristics to make it worth the cost.  The HEAT round for the historical KwK 36 L/56 was not impressive by any means, accuracy issues aside, since in WoT the accuracy is tied to the gun, not the shell (unfortunately).

Also, it's mentioned numerous times in the loading screen before a battle (I think?  Unless I remember it from somewhere else) that APCR rounds lose performance over distance more quickly than standard AP rounds do (the exception being the APCR/APDS rounds for the tier 10 medium tanks).

So there, suggestion for more variety in ammunition.  Thanks for reading  :Smile_Default:

EDIT:  Oh, and remove_arty_from_the_game.

Edited by Twan, Feb 20 2013 - 00:01.


sgtcheapbeer #2 Posted Feb 20 2013 - 00:05

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Oh, and remove_arty_from_the_game.  :Smile-hiding:

Pyrodunces #3 Posted Feb 20 2013 - 00:11

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I agree with everything you said except for arty.

Yet again, you DO have 25832 battles.

cwjian90 #4 Posted Feb 20 2013 - 00:13

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Why would you want the Hohlgranate? The penetration was even worse than the standard Panzergranate, with worse accuracy to boot.

Twan #5 Posted Feb 20 2013 - 00:14

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View Postcwjian90, on Feb 20 2013 - 00:13, said:

Why would you want the Hohlgranate? The penetration was even worse than the standard Panzergranate, with worse accuracy to boot.

Accuracy doesn't matter for different shell types in WoT because it's tied to the gun, not the ammunition.  Hopefully that will change, but...

BladedPheonix #6 Posted Feb 20 2013 - 00:15

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I agree they should add a 4th shell bracket, my m-18 would dominate if i had HVAP rounds.

BTW don't knock arty unless youve played it, it just ticks people off when you say dumb coments like removign them, they balence the game and prevent camping.

cwjian90 #7 Posted Feb 20 2013 - 00:16

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View PostTwan, on Feb 20 2013 - 00:14, said:

Accuracy doesn't matter for different shell types in WoT because it's tied to the gun, not the ammunition.  Hopefully that will change, but...

Yeah, but people already keep complaining about the 8.8 cm KwK 36's low penetration with PzGr 39, what would be the point of adding the HEAT round, which was even worse?

Twan #8 Posted Feb 20 2013 - 00:20

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View PostBladedPheonix, on Feb 20 2013 - 00:15, said:

I agree they should add a 4th shell bracket, my m-18 would dominate if i had HVAP rounds.

BTW don't knock arty unless youve played it, it just ticks people off when you say dumb coments like removign them, they balence the game and prevent camping.

I've played it.  I hate it.  That's all I'll say about it because that's not the point.

Also, you do have HVAP for the M-18 Hellcat.  "HVAP M304" for the 90 mm.

Edited by Twan, Feb 20 2013 - 00:21.


Twan #9 Posted Feb 20 2013 - 00:21

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View Postcwjian90, on Feb 20 2013 - 00:16, said:

Yeah, but people already keep complaining about the 8.8 cm KwK 36's low penetration with PzGr 39, what would be the point of adding the HEAT round, which was even worse?

Ah, that's true.  I was hoping they could fudge up the penetration range a bit though, or find a new shell, later version of HEAT rounds even if they didn't enter service.

Edited by Twan, Feb 20 2013 - 00:22.


BladedPheonix #10 Posted Feb 20 2013 - 00:22

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View PostTwan, on Feb 20 2013 - 00:20, said:

I've played it.  I hate it.  That's all I'll say about it because that's not the point.

Also, you do have HVAP for the M-18 Hellcat.  "HVAP M304".

I know that, what i was refering to was the 76mm though, there was a 2nd HVAP type used in ww2 and another one in Korea, forgot the techncial numbers though. :Smile_amazed:

Also if we're considering adding more sehlls maybe they could consider adding a 4th consumable slot, and maybe add sandbags and welded tracks for a small additional armor boost for around 10% or at least a -10% for critical hits or something.

Edited by BladedPheonix, Feb 20 2013 - 00:27.


Twan #11 Posted Feb 20 2013 - 00:23

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View PostBladedPheonix, on Feb 20 2013 - 00:22, said:

I know that, but there was a 2nd one used in ww2 and another one in Korea, forgot the techncial numbers though. :Smile_amazed:

The M304 has extremely good performance though

EDIT:  The rest of those suggestions about sandbags etc. are another topic

Edited by Twan, Feb 20 2013 - 00:28.


BladedPheonix #12 Posted Feb 20 2013 - 00:30

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View PostTwan, on Feb 20 2013 - 00:23, said:

The M304 has extremely good performance though

so true, I almost never use gold rounds unless I'm in a tourney or am facing tier 8/9s, but then again wargaming screwed the m-18's turent traversal speed and max engine speed, so the gun is the most potent and important part of the tank. Pretty good trade off if you ask me. :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by BladedPheonix, Feb 20 2013 - 00:46.


Twan #13 Posted Feb 20 2013 - 00:41

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I found a 76 millimeter round that you were probably talking about called the M331A1 (and A2) HVAP-DS-T.  It's already in the game, a discarding sabot round.  However, it's only available for the 76 millimeter T185, which is one of the guns on one of those crazy American autoloader vehicles.  It's performance looks more or less similar to the values according to Janes' article, couldn't find much else on it.

Oh, and it's available for credits only.

It seems that the 90 millimeter M304 has far, far better performance than it.

The HVAP shell for the 76 millimeter M1A1 and M1A2's, the M93, actually has better performance than it (although only by about 2 millimeters), in game at least.

Edited by Twan, Feb 20 2013 - 00:48.