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mmhello #21 Posted Feb 25 2013 - 14:46

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View PostTHEWULFMAN, on Feb 25 2013 - 14:34, said:

Been going downhill since 7.5? In my opinion, it didn't even feel like a proper game until 7.5 and the new matchmaker came out. Then the 8.0 patch came and added wonderfully fun physics.

Yes, tanks get nerfed. Why? Because they're trying to create balance. And they make mistakes. Big whoop, they're human, it happens. The KV was exceedingly overpowered, as was the PzIV. The Marder, I really don't know. I didn't play it before they did the last nerfs on it. It's still got a good gun.

War Thunder. I personally think it does planes better than WoWP. Yes I'm one of the beta testers for WoWP, so I know what I'm talking about. However, I'm not going to War Thunder for tanks. I'm happy with WoT. Ships, no idea either way. Hopefully WoWS is similar to WoT with ships that didn't make it past blueprints. I want a Montana Class Battleship. :P

That's my biggest tank related gripe with War Thunder, is the lack of non-mass produced tank designs. I love all the blueprint and prototype stage tanks we get, like the E-50 and T29.

Just my two credits on the matter.

wasnt saying kv or the panzer was oped, didnt think the panzer was, just saying they nerfed them cause they farmed credits to well and i did give credit for mm spread change

THEWULFMAN #22 Posted Feb 25 2013 - 14:56

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View Postmmhello, on Feb 25 2013 - 14:46, said:

wasnt saying kv or the panzer was oped, didnt think the panzer was, just saying they nerfed them cause they farmed credits to well and i did give credit for mm spread change

They nerfed them because they were overpowered. That's exactly why they farmed credits too well.

mmhello #23 Posted Feb 25 2013 - 14:59

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View PostKillerAyvaz, on Feb 25 2013 - 14:18, said:

Pretty much, starting from this summer...there has been a patch about once a month, and there is no indication that this will stop. The rate of patches we had a year ago doesn't matter much.
Don't change things that need fixing? Please, don't state your opinion as fact, a lot of the stuff they fixed needed fixing in my opinion...like the E-100 that they buffed, they arti that they nerfed...etc.
They do put in things they promised to put it. They have almost never failed to do this as of right now. They have never promised to input a certain thing by a certain date, they always say that dates are subject to change...because they are. Everything they said will be in-game, will most likely be in-game, just because what the majority wants gets put in before what you want gets put in, doesn't make them liers(i.e, the introduction of the chinese tree...what with the chinese server being the second largest and growing...)

I did not know that War thunder was planning to make tanks and ships too...sounds like they are straight up copying WGs idea...though that isn't too bad, since competition is always great...it doesn't evoke any respect for War Thunder, for not coming up with anything new.

Again. War Thunder is at a much later stage in development, since it has been worked on for longer. And it is in open beta, while WOWP is in closed beta. Considering that, again, War Thunder just made one of its earlier games into an MMO while hardly changing it at all, it is not hard to see why atm moment it farther in development than WOWP, who virtually started from scratch. If I were to make a prediction though, the rate at which progress is going with WOWP, if you've seen the latest update to it...I think WOWP will surpass War Thunder soon, god knows they have all the resources to do it.

roughly one patch every two months
E-100 buff yea... thanks for the extra gun mantlet armor it really helped the tank along with the extra hp.  Sure fixed the pen, acc, and rof of the gun.  And it would be nice if tier 7s could pen the lower plate.
And my opinions, well this is a forum and I never said there were facts(why i used words such as I think)...122mm shell prob could go through a radio on second thought

Sparkykun #24 Posted Feb 25 2013 - 15:22

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I think this belongs in Off-Topic, not the in-game vehicle comparison section.

Are you playing War Thunder? How do you like that game? It appears you have not been playing World of Tanks in two months:

http://wotlabs.net/na/player/mmhello

Also, many veteran players quit after getting a tier seven or eight tank; the grind in this game must drive people insane.

Edited by Sparkykun, Feb 25 2013 - 15:24.


mmhello #25 Posted Feb 25 2013 - 15:28

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View PostTHEWULFMAN, on Feb 25 2013 - 14:56, said:

They nerfed them because they were overpowered. That's exactly why they farmed credits too well.
kv oped, panzer had terrible side and rear armor, slow speed, gun was great but still only 135 alpha

THEWULFMAN #26 Posted Feb 25 2013 - 15:30

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View Postmmhello, on Feb 25 2013 - 15:28, said:

kv oped, panzer had terrible side and rear armor, slow speed, gun was great but still only 135 alpha

Yeah the PzIV has to use the 105mm nowadays. If you want to use that gun, use the PzIII/IV as it uses the same gun better. So yeah I think the PzIV could use a little buff on its gun.

mmhello #27 Posted Feb 25 2013 - 15:36

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im still playing wot, just not a lot, dont know how u got that stat, dont think i ever have enough money for a tier 9
have tiger 2 and is 3
yes stock grind are terrible, but i find it an acceptable way for wargames to sell gold this way
though as i said im playing less and less, could even get all my times 5 which are godsends for grinds

warthunder really fun, a breath of fresh air, have free repairs over time, balancing is pretty good once u learn how to fly ur plane, tons of planes
Unlike in wot it is very possible for a tier 0(lowest) to kill a tier 20(highest) if the enemy 20 make a mistake

KillerAyvaz #28 Posted Feb 25 2013 - 15:38

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View Postmmhello, on Feb 25 2013 - 14:59, said:

roughly one patch every two months
E-100 buff yea... thanks for the extra gun mantlet armor it really helped the tank along with the extra hp.  Sure fixed the pen, acc, and rof of the gun.  And it would be nice if tier 7s could pen the lower plate.
And my opinions, well this is a forum and I never said there were facts(why i used words such as I think)...122mm shell prob could go through a radio on second thought

View Postmmhello, on Feb 25 2013 - 14:45, said:

gold crew training lets u get 25 perc ahead of everyone else and allows u to swap perks and if u spend credits for gold ammo u will have to buy gold for silver cause u would be broke
I would have have no problem buying a prem account for a game with better mechanics

Thanks for proving my point. You don't have to pay, you just get things faster if you do, that isn't pay to win... Also, most people don't fire only gold, so going broke isn't an issue...and those who do roll all gold, they deserve to go broke and spend money.
As for your E-100 comment...yes the buff woun't help you at all....since you don't even have an E-100 do you. I have an E-100, and though it is relatively new, I can say that it is a great tier 10...a great one, it kicks ass....and ask any good player, they will tell you the E-100 is now on par. It is now used in clan wars very often.

And read up on the game mechanics, the problem with internal modules soaking up damage has been solved a long long time ago. The only way you don't do dmg is if you don't penetrate because of spaced armor, not enough penetration, or if the angle is too high. If you penetrate inside, you will maybe break the radio, but do dmg. Also note that vision ports are external modules, you can hit them, and not penetrate, while taking out the vision port itself, then there are the vision ports that don't have a hit box, like the one on the Maus. So study up on the game and stop making up b.s.

KillerAyvaz #29 Posted Feb 25 2013 - 15:44

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View Postmmhello, on Feb 25 2013 - 15:36, said:


warthunder really fun, a breath of fresh air, have free repairs over time, balancing is pretty good once u learn how to fly ur plane, tons of planes
Unlike in wot it is very possible for a tier 0(lowest) to kill a tier 20(highest) if the enemy 20 make a mistake

That issue is solved in WOT by having at max a 2 tier spread. And a tank 2 tiers lower can kill the one two tiers higher if he makes a mistake too.

If you are telling me that tier 0s are in the same matches as tier 20s in WT, then I feel sorry for them...if not, then it is not very relavent if they can kill them or not.

Also realize that most planes are very badly armored, for weight purposes, so a machine gun fired enough times at the right locations will usually take on out. Tanks are a different story.

It would be historically inaccurate, and rediculous frankly, if an ms-1 could take out a Maus in any way.

SFC_Storm #30 Posted Feb 26 2013 - 02:09

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View PostTHEWULFMAN, on Feb 25 2013 - 14:56, said:

They nerfed them because they were overpowered. That's exactly why they farmed credits too well.

The PZ4 was not OP. KV was but only because Gold. In older games KV was very very easy to kill. Besides KV-1s is pretty damned OP now.

They simply go in cycles and because they Buff or Nerf isnt always related to being OP. If that was the case when they nerfed tanks like the 48 Fatton and took it from awesome to worst Med 10 they would go back and change it next patch. So for instance if they nerf a tank 15 pen and .02 Accuracy and it kills it, then next month it should be 8 Pen .01 until they get it right. There is no excuse if its truly for balance that a tank should get drilled hard and not fixed, hell its a spreadsheet change.

WG does make certain tanks OP or FOTM so we grind that new tank up and exchange huge gobs of Gold/Exp etc...But that is ok, its a business. However to much of this "Gold Tank" or adding 1 new line a month can be overboard.

I agree with OP that SOME things need to be fixed before new shiny toys come out. Current Tank balance and game balance always should be first IMO. Games like Eve have seen this exact mistake, where they would release these shiny new tech tree`s but forget basic simple fixes that needed changing for 2 years+.

Also, guys like OP may come off as whining but he wouldn`t be posting unless he cared for game. And this could be his way of trying to make aware what he thinks are problems, Agree or not.

SFC_Storm #31 Posted Feb 26 2013 - 02:19

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View PostKillerAyvaz, on Feb 25 2013 - 15:44, said:

Also realize that most planes are very badly armored, for weight purposes, so a machine gun fired enough times at the right locations will usually take on out. Tanks are a different story.


This isnt true. In REAL LIFE, tanks that were of similar Era were almost always 1-2 Shooting eachother, and the ones that wern`t were very much like the P47 planes who were x5 armored vs other planes.

To say a "a machine gun fired enough times at the right locations will usually take on out. Tanks are a different story." is not true at all, 90% of tanks if aimed at properly were taken out in a few shots max and mostly 1 round that hit.

Planes vary as much as most Tanks in Armor, since Planes carry weaker weapons but are also proportionally weaker armored. Still they have Spitfires with 3 inch wings and Inline engines that can get hit once vs P47`s that could take cannon rounds and lose a few cylinders.

Also a Maus couldnt be taken out by most things in its generation....It also could not keep up and hunt most things either. I it would be better to say a T28 vs a Tiger. In which I think the T28 could pen it from the rear.

I see what he is saying about them making mistakes. The MM is still a long ways off from awesome. A T21 is a horrible T6 with a weak 76mm but almost never lands in T6 or 7 rounds only. I am almost always in the T9-10 matches and its completely useless, esp since im scouting vs true T5 scouts that have more HP than me and are way faster.

Point is WoT is not gaming utopia and while he brings up valid points, you seem to be going over the top explaining how the game is the pinnacle of perfection. I agree with a lot of your points, WoT for the most part is solid, but he has valid issues also.

It`s somewhere in between usually.

Edited by Cmd_Storm, Feb 26 2013 - 02:25.


mmhello #32 Posted Feb 26 2013 - 03:02

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View PostKillerAyvaz, on Feb 25 2013 - 15:38, said:

Thanks for proving my point. You don't have to pay, you just get things faster if you do, that isn't pay to win... Also, most people don't fire only gold, so going broke isn't an issue...and those who do roll all gold, they deserve to go broke and spend money.
As for your E-100 comment...yes the buff woun't help you at all....since you don't even have an E-100 do you. I have an E-100, and though it is relatively new, I can say that it is a great tier 10...a great one, it kicks ass....and ask any good player, they will tell you the E-100 is now on par. It is now used in clan wars very often.

And read up on the game mechanics, the problem with internal modules soaking up damage has been solved a long long time ago. The only way you don't do dmg is if you don't penetrate because of spaced armor, not enough penetration, or if the angle is too high. If you penetrate inside, you will maybe break the radio, but do dmg. Also note that vision ports are external modules, you can hit them, and not penetrate, while taking out the vision port itself, then there are the vision ports that don't have a hit box, like the one on the Maus. So study up on the game and stop making up b.s.

E-100 used in clan wars yeah about that...look at overall tank used an e-100 makes up what perc...
So u agree that sometimes the radio will break and do no damage.  I didnt know player support these mechanic.  
And yes i do know every tank with spaced armor, low damage rolls, angles, etc.  I talking about shots straight into the ass of tanks with 50 rear armor flat 100 perc zoomed in with a 225 pen gun getting a crit hit zero damage.

mmhello #33 Posted Feb 26 2013 - 06:20

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Also i have played e 100 in test server
its only use for clan wars is to block choke points and it is all right firing gold, awful if not and it gold rounds are heat which sucks(cause of mechanics0

mmhello #34 Posted Feb 26 2013 - 06:29

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View PostKillerAyvaz, on Feb 25 2013 - 15:44, said:

That issue is solved in WOT by having at max a 2 tier spread. And a tank 2 tiers lower can kill the one two tiers higher if he makes a mistake too.

If you are telling me that tier 0s are in the same matches as tier 20s in WT, then I feel sorry for them...if not, then it is not very relavent if they can kill them or not.

Also realize that most planes are very badly armored, for weight purposes, so a machine gun fired enough times at the right locations will usually take on out. Tanks are a different story.

It would be historically inaccurate, and rediculous frankly, if an ms-1 could take out a Maus in any way.

no i did not tell you warthunder has no mm, but you assumed it did
I said all planes can kill each other, and for wargames mm, take a leopard and try and kill a kv-4 or k-5 which is valid mm.  How about a t 50-2 a maus.  How about a 59-16 and kill a maus.  I know their light tanks but this nullifies ur claim.

and ur bringing up historical accurate, IS 3 same tier as tiger 2, the tiger 2 fought in world war 2 the IS 3 never saw action so.....  Dont even get me started about the french tanks
Dont bring up the timeline with ms-1 and maus because wot follows no logical historical time line for tier system

KillerAyvaz #35 Posted Feb 26 2013 - 08:06

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View Postmmhello, on Feb 26 2013 - 03:02, said:

E-100 used in clan wars yeah about that...look at overall tank used an e-100 makes up what perc...
So u agree that sometimes the radio will break and do no damage.  I didnt know player support these mechanic.  
And yes i do know every tank with spaced armor, low damage rolls, angles, etc.  I talking about shots straight into the ass of tanks with 50 rear armor flat 100 perc zoomed in with a 225 pen gun getting a crit hit zero damage.

Read my post better, I state that you can't break the radio without doing damage to the tank.
The shots to the ass always do damage, they fixed 0 dmg crits to modules a while ago...if you didn't do damage, they its one of the above mistakes that we dicussed.(spaced, no hit box, etc)

KillerAyvaz #36 Posted Feb 26 2013 - 08:16

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View Postmmhello, on Feb 26 2013 - 06:29, said:

no i did not tell you warthunder has no mm, but you assumed it did
I said all planes can kill each other, and for wargames mm, take a leopard and try and kill a kv-4 or k-5 which is valid mm.  How about a t 50-2 a maus.  How about a 59-16 and kill a maus.  I know their light tanks but this nullifies ur claim.

and ur bringing up historical accurate, IS 3 same tier as tiger 2, the tiger 2 fought in world war 2 the IS 3 never saw action so.....  Dont even get me started about the french tanks
Dont bring up the timeline with ms-1 and maus because wot follows no logical historical time line for tier system

No, here is what I said - "If you are telling me that tier 0s are in the same matches as tier 20s in WT, then I feel sorry for them...if not, then it is not very relavent if they can kill them or not." I did not assume there was no mm, but the way you said it, it seemed like there was none, so I prepared for both. Again ....read.

It does not nullify my point. Because the games are inherently different. Seriously, do you really want the game to make it so that you can kill a maus with a t-50-2......

Note: funny thing is, you actually can kill a maus with a t-50-2, I have done it...in trianing rooms of course...theres a little circle on the back of the turret, that has almost no armor and can be penned by t-50-2 standard ammo...so to you I say....lol!

Then again, like I said, it would be rediculous if these small tanks could pose any sort of threat to a maus, it would deviate from history so much.
WOT does follow a logical time line for the most part, especially for the middle tiers(not the french though, for obvious reasons), and the Tiger 2 was developed just one year prior to the is-3, so don't get your panties in a bunch over it.

Also the tanks that you pointed out, are scouts, yea you said it too, these tanks are not maid  to penetrate highly armored tank, they are meant to scout them and reveal their position for the rest of the team.

In a way, you could say that a good t-50-2 player can be a much bigger threat to a maus than say a Tiger 2, because once the Maus is lit, the whole enemy team will open fire on him, as well as the artillery, which will send the slow moving and large Maus back to the garage. Your point is invalid.

Edit: "look at overall tank used an e-100 makes up what perc.", can you please provide a link to where you got the data to say that the e-100 is almost never used in clan wars, would be helpful, thx.

Edited by KillerAyvaz, Feb 26 2013 - 08:28.


KillerAyvaz #37 Posted Feb 26 2013 - 08:25

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View PostCmd_Storm, on Feb 26 2013 - 02:19, said:

Point is WoT is not gaming utopia and while he brings up valid points, you seem to be going over the top explaining how the game is the pinnacle of perfection. I agree with a lot of your points, WoT for the most part is solid, but he has valid issues also.



Not really, he just said that the developers are not doing their due diligence and are all about the money now that development is over. I pointed out that development is not over and that they are releasing new stuff all the time.

The other things he said...yes I agree there are some problems with MM, but they are NOT, that not every tank can damage another tank it fights against, especially since these are limited to scouts, and scouts have a roll of their own. A true problem would be that your tier 6 scout is not good at scouting or some such thing. I was disproving his points, not saying that the whole system is fine.

Edit: Won't argue with you about the historical stuff, you obviously know it better(I hardly know anything about WW2 planes at all in fact). Though I must say that I am pretty sure that statistics wise, the old KV and pz4 were I think higher than the rest of the tier 5s. If you remember they were the tier 5s everyone coveted as well. In my experience, the KV was indeed op, and not with the nub 152, I mean the 107. That could 2 shot every other tier 5, while having good accuracy, high damage, great dpm, and very high penetration for tier 5. In the KV, if you wanted to carry teams and make credits, the 107 was the way to go, if you wanted to just have fun, it was the 152.

Edited by KillerAyvaz, Feb 26 2013 - 08:37.


mmhello #38 Posted Feb 26 2013 - 09:24

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View PostKillerAyvaz, on Feb 26 2013 - 08:06, said:

Read my post better, I state that you can't break the radio without doing damage to the tank.
The shots to the ass always do damage, they fixed 0 dmg crits to modules a while ago...if you didn't do damage, they its one of the above mistakes that we dicussed.(spaced, no hit box, etc)
funny two days ago i talked to an is 3 who i shoot in the ass twice and did zero damage,
he said the frist one killed his radio and the next killed his loader, both did zero damage and were ap

mmhello #39 Posted Feb 26 2013 - 09:34

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View PostKillerAyvaz, on Feb 26 2013 - 08:16, said:

No, here is what I said - "If you are telling me that tier 0s are in the same matches as tier 20s in WT, then I feel sorry for them...if not, then it is not very relavent if they can kill them or not." I did not assume there was no mm, but the way you said it, it seemed like there was none, so I prepared for both. Again ....read.

It does not nullify my point. Because the games are inherently different. Seriously, do you really want the game to make it so that you can kill a maus with a t-50-2......

Note: funny thing is, you actually can kill a maus with a t-50-2, I have done it...in trianing rooms of course...theres a little circle on the back of the turret, that has almost no armor and can be penned by t-50-2 standard ammo...so to you I say....lol!

Then again, like I said, it would be rediculous if these small tanks could pose any sort of threat to a maus, it would deviate from history so much.
WOT does follow a logical time line for the most part, especially for the middle tiers(not the french though, for obvious reasons), and the Tiger 2 was developed just one year prior to the is-3, so don't get your panties in a bunch over it.

Also the tanks that you pointed out, are scouts, yea you said it too, these tanks are not maid  to penetrate highly armored tank, they are meant to scout them and reveal their position for the rest of the team.

In a way, you could say that a good t-50-2 player can be a much bigger threat to a maus than say a Tiger 2, because once the Maus is lit, the whole enemy team will open fire on him, as well as the artillery, which will send the slow moving and large Maus back to the garage. Your point is invalid.

Edit: "look at overall tank used an e-100 makes up what perc.", can you please provide a link to where you got the data to say that the e-100 is almost never used in clan wars, would be helpful, thx.

yes we all know the t 50 2 is good but could never kill a maus in combat do to it moving and not enough ammo
what about the leo and the 59-16, forgot to mention how they couldnt kill tanks in current mm
u brought up the 0 and 20 for mm, i was just stating i enjoyed that fact in the game
ask people who play clan wars what tanks are most played for heavies it is always t 110 e5 and is 7, they only use e 100 when there tanks are locked or they want to block a choke point, also firing gold rounds the tank actually has pen, but i never include gold rounds as part as the tank

KillerAyvaz #40 Posted Feb 26 2013 - 10:33

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View Postmmhello, on Feb 26 2013 - 09:34, said:

yes we all know the t 50 2 is good but could never kill a maus in combat do to it moving and not enough ammo
what about the leo and the 59-16, forgot to mention how they couldnt kill tanks in current mm
u brought up the 0 and 20 for mm, i was just stating i enjoyed that fact in the game
ask people who play clan wars what tanks are most played for heavies it is always t 110 e5 and is 7, they only use e 100 when there tanks are locked or they want to block a choke point, also firing gold rounds the tank actually has pen, but i never include gold rounds as part as the tank

I don't know what the IS-3 driver said, but that doesn't happen anymore, he could have been not telling the truth. I have played many games...it used to happen, a lot in fact, but in one of the patches they fixed it...havn't had a single case since then...I always do dmg when I penetrate armor that is not spaced, and I never get one of my internal modules destroyed without actually taking dmg(gun and optics are external, as well as fuel tanks I think).

The t-50-2 can kill a maus, fact. Now the fact that this is very hard to do is because of the tier and purpose difference of the tanks...same will be with planes...and older plane may be theoretically able to take out a modern one...but the chances of that happening are nill.

the leo and 59-16 can kill tanks in the current MM, I platooned with a clan mate on that tank, he gets kills and loves that tank. It has enough penetration to get through a lot of the sides and rears of tanks....and can take out any arti.

Again...dedicated scouts like the leo and t-50-2 are not supposed to be able to effectively fight tanks they go up against....because they are scouts....they light targets and kill artillery, and are very important to the game.

Edit: The t-50-2 can kill a maus not because it is good, but because that exact spot on the maus turret has virtually no armor, a leo can pen there too I think. Course all these tanks have to do to become immune to the maus is drive up beside it. A t-50-2 can penetrate an e-100 too, in the larger, but better armored, circle on the back of the turret, I have done this is training sessions as well. and a t-50-2 has just 110mm of pen.

Edited by KillerAyvaz, Feb 26 2013 - 10:37.