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Why the famed 'center rush' is usually a monumentally moronic idea


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Lert #1 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:18

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Most maps in this game follow this general format:

Posted Image

Two bases, one on either side of the map. Three general corridors of attack, sectioned off by map geometry that breaks up line of sight and / or passage. Buildings, water, rocks, mountains, what have you - all this falls under map geometry.

"OMG all center rush kekekekeke!!!@!@$!@$!"(Occurs most frequently in lower tier games)

Posted Image

This is a monumentally stupid thing to suggest or attempt. Why? Here's why:

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Congratulations, you ran forward headlong like headless chickens, into a veritable shooting gallery. You are now being flanked by the entire red team. They're on both sides of you, and you'll always be showing your weakest armor to someone, allowing them to pick you off at their leisure. There's a reason that pincer movements are some of the most famous military strategies: they work. Don't be an eedyut, don't willingly submit yourself to being outflanked like this.

"But what about the delayed rush, when the majority of the enemy is too far from their spawn point to effectively flank you?"

You mean like this?

Posted Image

What invariably follows is this:

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Congratulations. You've now opened up your base to the enemy's flanking forces, allowing them to cap unopposed, while they only need to send a few fast tanks back to reset your cap progress, for an easy win.

"But we did the full center rush and it worked!"

Yes. That one time. Out of thirty. But as the old saying goes, even a broken clock is right twice a day. Sometimes the center rush can work, if your enemy is even more full of windowlicking, mouthbreathing idiots than your team. But nine out of ten times, a center rush is a surefire way to lose the match. Don't do it.

"But what if we leave a token defense back to stall their cap attempt?"

Well, then you're not doing a full center rush, are you? Congratulations, you're actually using strategy. Good boy.

Center rushes are for chumps. Are you a chump?

Important note:

Though this guide concentrates on the center rush, it's valid for most full-out rushes on any one flank. Leaving two flanks unopposed is not a good idea. There should under most circumstances be enough of a presence on any flank to at least spot and delay incoming enemies.

DassemUltor #2 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:21

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Serene coast disagrees with you.

5 line push in (relatively mobile) heavies, or a full out potato derp by meds at the start of the battle usually works wonders and/or results in dead enemy arty

A_UselessReptile #3 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:22

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Great job as normal, unfortunately most players will never see this, any possibility you could use telekinesis to transmit your will to unruly pub players?

emmie357 #4 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:22

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Nice diagrams, it's like chapter 1 of "the complete idiot's guide to internet tanks".

ironcladtanker #5 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:25

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View PostLert, on Mar 03 2013 - 16:18, said:

Most maps in this game follow this general format:

Posted Image

Two bases, one on either side of the map. Three general corridors of attack, sectioned off by map geometry that breaks up line of sight and / or passage. Buildings, water, rocks, mountains, what have you - all this falls under map geometry.

"OMG all center rush kekekekeke!!!@!@$!@$!" (Occurs most frequently in lower tier games)

Posted Image

This is a monumentally stupid thing to suggest or attempt. Why? Here's why:

Posted Image

Congratulations, you ran forward headlong like headless chickens, into a veritable shooting gallery. You are now being flanked by the entire red team. They're on both sides of you, and you'll always be showing your weakest armor to someone, allowing them to pick you off at their leisure. There's a reason that pincer movements are some of the most famous military strategies: they work. Don't be an eedyut, don't willingly submit yourself to being outflanked like this.

"But what about the delayed rush, when the majority of the enemy is too far from their spawn point to effectively flank you?"

You mean like this?

Posted Image

What invariably follows is this:

Posted Image

Congratulations. You've now opened up your base to the enemy's flanking forces, allowing them to cap unopposed, while they only need to send a few fast tanks back to reset your cap progress, for an easy win.

"But we did the full center rush and it worked!"

Yes. That one time. Out of thirty. But as the old saying goes, even a broken clock is right twice a day. Sometimes the center rush can work, if your enemy is even more full of windowlicking, mouthbreathing idiots than your team. But nine out of ten times, a center rush is a surefire way to lose the match. Don't do it.

"But what if we leave a token defense back to stall their cap attempt?"

Well, then you're not doing a full center rush, are you? Congratulations, you're actually using strategy. Good boy.

Center rushes are for chumps. Are you a chump?

Very informational for new players (+1). :Smile_great:

Lert #6 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:25

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View PostDassemUltor, on Mar 03 2013 - 16:21, said:

Serene coast disagrees with you.

5 line push in (relatively mobile) heavies, or a full out potato derp by meds at the start of the battle usually works wonders and/or results in dead enemy arty
Let's look at that, shall we?

Posted Image

Oh teh noes! The 5 line is not actually the middle of the traversible map, but its flank! Whatever shall we do?!

Well, not call a 5 line rush on Serene coast a center rush, for one. Because it isn't. It's a flank push. My point stands.

IronWolfV #7 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:28

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View PostDassemUltor, on Mar 03 2013 - 16:21, said:

Serene coast disagrees with you.

5 line push in (relatively mobile) heavies, or a full out potato derp by meds at the start of the battle usually works wonders and/or results in dead enemy arty

Put all your tanks one day up the 5 line and see what happens,  Be flanked and crushed like tin cans like in lerts drawings, or held up by 3 tanks while the rest of the team runs unopposed to your cap and caps you out.

Seen it happen.  Now putting a few tanks up the 5 line, not a bad idea. WHOLE TEAM.  BAD IDEA.

panzerdan412 #8 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:33

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View PostDassemUltor, on Mar 03 2013 - 16:21, said:

Serene coast disagrees with you.

5 line push in (relatively mobile) heavies, or a full out potato derp by meds at the start of the battle usually works wonders and/or results in dead enemy arty
A 5 thur 7 line rush only work to quickly  kill arty  by a fast scout or batchat  other then that  the hill   pwn the  5 flank or th eisland  pill box  does the same

MisterPatriot #9 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:33

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Ive done the 5 line push in an IS-7 with 2 platoonmates, as well as some pubbies that followed.

It was a success.

DassemUltor #10 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:35

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View PostLert, on Mar 03 2013 - 16:25, said:

Let's look at that, shall we?

Posted Image

Oh teh noes! The 5 line is not actually the middle of the traversible map, but its flank! Whatever shall we do?!

Well, not call a 5 line rush on Serene coast a center rush, for one. Because it isn't. It's a flank push. My point stands.

No it doesn't. Look at your goddamn map. Anything coming up the 5 line from the south can be shot from the 6-9 lines from the north side. Anything going down the south from the north can be shot from the F2 bushes and the 6-7 lines. It's not a "flank".

The concept of "flanks" don't exist on Serene coast because tanks on one end of the map can pop tanks on another end. There are no discrete flanks.

Spiley_Craw #11 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:35

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Someone actually thinks "center rush" is a good idea?
Wow.
-Kle.

Lert #12 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:35

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View PostKarlManx, on Mar 03 2013 - 16:33, said:

Ive done the 5 line push in an IS-7 with 2 platoonmates, as well as some pubbies that followed.

It was a success.
Good for you.

Why are you posting that in this thread? That's not a center rush, that's a flank rush. Look at the map. The 5 line is the east-most traversible part of the map, therefore impossible to get flanked from the right side. Therefore it's not a center rush but a flank push.

View PostDassemUltor, on Mar 03 2013 - 16:35, said:

No it doesn't. Look at your goddamn map. Anything coming up the 5 line from the south can be shot from the 6-9 lines from the north side. Anything going down the south from the north can be shot from the F2 bushes and the 6-7 lines. It's not a "flank".
Yet you're closing yourself off from being attacked from one side, having only to worry about one other.

Also, note where I said most of the maps, not all of the maps.

Besides, once you get to the base on Serene Coast, you're not going to get flanked from both sides, are you. My point still stands.

Silvers_ #13 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:36

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Eh it's serene coast and a camp fest and will be out of the rotation shortly.

Lert is right though. I'd even go so far as to say it's true for any Lemming rush to 1 side. That or the teams that send 3/4 of the tanks down tank valley on Lakevilel to get stopped by 2-3 td's/med at the bottle neck and leave the road/city wide open and covered by 2-3 tanks. just because it worked once every 30 battles doesn't mean it will work all the time.

I swear when i see crap like that I'm like DO NOT STOP if your sending that many tanks down the valley. LOL usually get told to STFU and I'm like ok. I'll sit and cover the back side of city/road and wait to get overwhelmed while you get picked off in the valley.

50LBHEAD1 #14 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:37

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Lert, thank you very informational.

Now those who disagree with him, understand nothing is ever black and white, MAYBE ONCE a center rush got you a win, that doesn't mean that it will always work especially since from experience, a center rush usually ends in a loss.

So again, just because your center rush worked one time, doesn't mean it will work 100% all the time, everyday, all year. When clearly it doesn't ask anyone.

DassemUltor #15 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:38

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View PostLert, on Mar 03 2013 - 16:35, said:

Good for you.

Why are you posting that in this thread? That's not a center rush, that's a flank rush. Look at the map. The 5 line is the east-most traversible part of the map, therefore impossible to get flanked from the right side. Therefore it's not a center rush but a flank push.

5 line gets flanked from island and hill... I'm not sure what you are talking about

Lert #16 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:40

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View PostDassemUltor, on Mar 03 2013 - 16:38, said:

5 line gets flanked from island and hill... I'm not sure what you are talking about
'Shot at from distance' =/= 'getting flanked'. Armor works at distance. Weak spots can't be targeted at distance. The map geometry at both bases on Serene Coast provideshard cover. *Once again points out I said most and usually, not all and all the time*

<Lert> This is usually the case, excepting for exceptions.
<Dassem> You're wrong! There are exceptions!
<Lert> ... I know. That doesn't make my point any less valid.
<Dassem> You're wrong! There are exceptions!

... really? Got nothing better to do?

Fritz_Fried #17 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:52

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View PostDassemUltor, on Mar 03 2013 - 16:38, said:

5 line gets flanked from island and hill... I'm not sure what you are talking about

Ran a 5 line rush two times with Inchon from Anvil. It was a total success both times. Small group guarding middle and other flank. Fast tanks ran the 5 line to the town. We had them surrounded before they could deploy to island.

DassemUltor #18 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:52

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View PostLert, on Mar 03 2013 - 16:35, said:


Why are you posting that in this thread? That's not a center rush, that's a flank rush. Look at the map. The 5 line is the east-most traversible part of the map, therefore impossible to get flanked from the right side. Therefore it's not a center rush but a flank push.

Hurr durr no traversible terrain therefore its not a flank...

Quote

Yet you're closing yourself off from being attacked from one side, having only to worry about one other.

No, you get attacked from two sides. Either from straight ahead and island when you push south-north, or from straight ahead and hill-side when you push north-south.






Quote

Besides, once you get to the base on Serene Coast, you're not going to get flanked from both sides, are you. My point still stands.

Bolded makes zero sense. And you point does not still stand.

Centre pushes are viable - read the map and enemy team composition and then decide for yourself.Don't follow black and white rules.  Going centre =/= centre rush. Delayed centre pushes work on maps like Cliff, and are critical on certain maps like Mines (hill contest).

Going centre isn't the issue, from reading your diagram it is assuming that people rush to cap after pushing the centre, which is almost never the case. A succesful push on a central position is conducive to map control and will help utterly ravage an entire flank.

My beef with your post is that I'm going to see more and more people go down a "flank" which has no effect on the battle whatsoever (think the beach of death on airfield, valley in Lakeville, East side of Westfield etc.) Flanks aren't as important as central positions on the map which offer map control and flexibility.

Silvers_ #19 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:53

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TBH The island really isn't the big issue on Serene. You usually only have 1-2 tanks there. The bigger worry for the 5 line is the Hill.

DassemUltor #20 Posted Mar 03 2013 - 16:56

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View PostLert, on Mar 03 2013 - 16:40, said:

'Shot at from distance' =/= 'getting flanked'. Armor works at distance. Weak spots can't be targeted at distance. The map geometry at both bases on Serene Coast provideshard cover. *Once again points out I said most and usually, not all and all the time*

<Lert> This is usually the case, excepting for exceptions.
<Dassem> You're wrong! There are exceptions!
<Lert> ... I know. That doesn't make my point any less valid.
<Dassem> You're wrong! There are exceptions!

... really? Got nothing better to do?

There are more maps than the singular example that was Serene Coast where a central position is critical to victory.

The point being is that you can't say it is "usually the case" or assert that advice is true for the majority of the time when it isn't "usually the case".




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