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3 Things For The Tiger 1


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CommissarRykov #121 Posted Dec 29 2010 - 12:14

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View Postwinghun, on Dec 29 2010 - 11:41, said:

I've read a lot of comments about how to use the Tiger properly. Obviously, this tank is not for dogfighting, but sniping. I even tried a 'Tiger trick', which seems to work, but the 'collateral damage' still ruins my game. As markytee said a few pages earlier, playing the Tiger is like "BOUNCED!" "RICOCHET!" "TRACK IS OUT" "THE LOADER BOUGHT THE FARM" "GUN IS OUT" " TURRET IS DAMAGED" "WE'RE ON FIRE...QUICK PUT IT OUT!" "BAIL OUT..WE'RE DONE!" It's sad and painfully ironic, but true as hell.

Something else. I've read a lot of books about tank warfare (definitely not witten by German fanboys), and I've always thought that the 88mm KwK 43 L/71 was the best tank gun in WWII if we don't consider the 128mm PaK as a tank gun. I was happy when I got that gun, because I thought I would be able to take out virtually anything... and that's true, I'm able to destroy virtually anything, but practically not. All I get is 'ricochet' and 'bounced off', which is super annoying, because I aim the weak spots and not the turret or sloped parts of the armor. Yesterday I was fighting a T29, I shot it 5 times and ALL of them bounced off. Fortunately there was an IS-3 there and helped me out. And due to the very low damage of the gun, it takes 3 shots to destroy a tank like Panzer IV, which is absolutely unrealistic even for WoT standards.

I still have good stats with Tiger, slightly more than half of my battles are victories, which is satisfying with a tank like this, but this tank is definitely no fun.
Armor historians actually consider the 75mm KwK 42 L/70 to be the best gun of the war which is ironic since it is total shit in this game. Poor Panther.

winghun #122 Posted Dec 29 2010 - 13:07

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View PostSturmbannfuhrer, on Dec 29 2010 - 12:14, said:

Armor historians actually consider the 75mm KwK 42 L/70 to be the best gun of the war which is ironic since it is total shit in this game. Poor Panther.

The 88mm KwK 43 L/71 was clearly superior, it had better penetration values and fired stronger HE shells. But it doesn't matter, because they both suck in the game.

Xenos21 #123 Posted Dec 29 2010 - 23:14

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View PostMatin, on Dec 27 2010 - 14:46, said:

Is there any way we can get they changed to gold ammo loads in the second hotkey?  Or did I miss some method of changing the order the ammo loads.

Yes you can do it after patch with panther2.
In the menu where you setup repairs and buy ammo you can change place of your AP, HE and other shells any way you want.

MortalWombat #124 Posted Dec 30 2010 - 07:55

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If you are a fan of this tank like me I though that you might enjoy this documentary: Tigers in the desert

I was very disappointed with this tank initially, but after getting all the upgrades the Tiger is quite enjoyable to use. Just team up with even heavier tanks, support them and you'll do fine. :)

bojanski #125 Posted Dec 30 2010 - 10:02

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View PostMortalWombat, on Dec 30 2010 - 07:55, said:

I was very disappointed with this tank initially, but after getting all the upgrades the Tiger is quite enjoyable to use. Just team up with even heavier tanks, support them and you'll do fine. :)

I couldn't agree more, full tiger I is just amazing. It's just people whining how they can't deal with e.g. IS4, which is 2 tiers higher than the Tiger I, so they just don't like it.

Play the Tiger right, it'll pay you back :)

Turvas #126 Posted Dec 30 2010 - 12:02

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I also love the Tiger. After 163 battles in it I'm not frustrated or anything. I know it soft and squishy and every time you show up in a pack, you're usually primaried because few shots bounce, but when all goes well and you find superior position, this metal box really shines.
Not as often as I would like but... ohwell.

And yes, increase the speed a bit, would really help and I don't see how this affects balancing at all

destruya #127 Posted Dec 30 2010 - 12:04

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View PostISDVirulence, on Dec 16 2010 - 19:21, said:

This is an underpowered German tank, which is right where the Devs intend it to be.  Now if it was Russian, these changes would have been made long ago for 'historical reasons'.
I'm really sure they love hearing this over and over from sperglords who become instant armchair tank history Google-scholars when it comes to whining about buffs.

This is the dumbest pubbie logic I've ever heard from anyone *ever* in an MMO (and it's not just you spouting this nonsense), and I routinely peruse the EVE Assembly Hall forum.

RokRoland #128 Posted Dec 30 2010 - 17:49

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View PostTurvas, on Dec 30 2010 - 12:02, said:

And yes, increase the speed a bit, would really help and I don't see how this affects balancing at all

Even though I agree a speed buff would be nice, you're contradicting yourself there - if it helps, it helps, and makes the tank more effective -> affects the tank's relative power -> affects balancing.

Lito #129 Posted Dec 30 2010 - 22:13

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Just got my TigerI. Omg first turret looks so awful. Cant even play with it.

But main point is i took engine, best gun from vk36 and tried one match out. In result i gained 5,5k credits in repair ~8k credits. Awful start if i might add.
Every1 just went like crazy after they saw me, like I was the only guy on the battlefield.


I"ll listen to what was earlier said - earn xp with vk3601 and transfer it to Tiger....

Cartz1337 #130 Posted Dec 30 2010 - 22:13

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Although I'm new to the Tiger, I can feel already that the Tiger is underwhelming and very likely in need of a buff.

Without getting passionate about historical values being correct for the game or not, lets look at this from a game design and balancing standpoint.

I see four generic encounter types when I'm playing, (five if you include SPGs indirect fire, but that is irrelevant to this discussion)

1. Toe to Toe fight (close range, tanks face one another)
2. Sniping engagement (tanks at distance, possibly hull defilade to one another)
3. Ambush (get the jump on someone who doesn't see you)
4. Ambushed (been jumped)

To be 'balanced' I'd expect each tank in an equivilant tier to be better in one or two of these occasions than its competitors, and worst in at least one of the categories. So lets look at the Tiger using these situations to guide our discussion.

1. In point blank encounters, I don't think there is any argument, the Tiger will get eaten by either a T29 or IS. The armor bounces no rounds, and the Tiger's gun will not reliably penetrate the enemy armor. The Tiger's slightly better maneouverability does not compensate for this. I'd say from what I've seen the T29 and IS perform equally well and better than the Tiger in this respect.

2. This is where the Tiger supposedly shines, although I'd say in 50% of the engagements I've been a part of the enemy has done significant damage to me, if not forced me to withdraw from the fight entirely. Module damage, such as gun, loader, ammo and gunner, mean that the Tiger's reliability as a sniper diminishes rapidly should it take a few hits. Pound for pound, its the best sniper, but it doesn't stand out amazingly well.

3. Ambush - If you manage to position yourself for an ambush in a Tiger, and get an IS or T29 from behind, you can *potentially* destroy the IS before he wheels around on you. I don't have a lot of experience here, but I'd say its a roll of the dice if the ambush pans out in your favor, or if it turns quickly into a toe to toe that Tigers do not fare so well in. I'd say that the Tiger is equal to all other tanks in an Ambush scenario, maybe slightly weaker because of its guns lesser damage. It is definitely not a desireable candidate to lay an ambush, as that requires it to get stuck in, nullifying its value as a sniper.

4. Ambushed - The Tiger explodes, getting shot in the back means so much module damage you will be lucky to get your front to the enemy before he's disabled you in some way. Again, this is from my limited experience, and lots of observation from the SPG god mode eye in the sky. Ideally the Tiger should not be ambushed often, as it should be at a distance from the front lines.

I think its clear if you think about these situations that, historically accurate or not, the Tiger is a little weaker than it should be. It really doesn't stand out exceptionally well as a sniper, and it cannot really effectively take part in other heavy tank activities. My two suggestions would be to thicken the armor up a bit, to deflect rounds more often when sniping, but don't make the armor so thick that it becomes an effective brawler close in. I'd say really thicken up the mantlet, so that if the driver is talented and find a nice hull down position, he is rewarded with some bounced rounds.

Second, I'd consider giving the tank a slightly longer 10.5cm gun. Considering the calibre of the oppositions weapons at this tier, giving the Tiger a 10.5 with non trivial penetration values would go far to appease the crowd that just can't help but getting stuck in with their Tigers.

Finally, I'd like to end on the thought someone touched on before. When this game goes live, anyone who hasn't been in beta is going to eye that Tiger with a lot of eagerness. It is the only tank they can easily identify from the period, and they know from its reputation that it was a feared and respected piece of equipment. When people are paying money and spending time grinding up to this Tiger, only to realize that it really doesn't deliver on that feared and respected mystique that is associated with, they will become disillusioned. Beyond bringing the game into balance, it makes good business sense to buff the Tiger, because this game really can't afford to have the Tiger being this UP (or situationally dependant if you dislike the word UP). I'd go so far as to say the devs should err on the side of caution and make it OP, just to appease the masses.

Juiblex79 #131 Posted Dec 31 2010 - 00:10

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For me I just played the tiger till I got it filly upgraded and found that it went from the piece of scrap metal it was un-upgraded to the poor/mediocre range of tanks in it's tier. When comparing it to the Russian tech tree people said the whole German tank line was over rated in comparison by 1 tech level from around tech 5 on. I know this is supposedly a Beta test but I doubt anything that drastic will happen.

Personally I feel the main issue with all German equipment is accuracy. I know they are more accurate then anyone else but its not really comparable to where it should be. German guns could hit and damage targets at 2000m our current engagements are at 500 or less. That's a MASSIVE difference. German tanks didn't need much defense in armor their defense was in engagement range. The 88 didn't need to be any larger for more explosive damage the time it took the enemy to get into range would be more then enough time to do its damage and move to the next target.

Engagements in the game at 2000m are just not possible right now, probably never, but unless something is done to make up for this huge deficiency in the German tank defense they will never be on par. The only way I see fixing this is bumping the German tech line 1 down or everyone else up. Or to make the HP difference much much more then it currently is.

MA_MA_G47 #132 Posted Dec 31 2010 - 22:33

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I love my Tiger I, but I think it loses the main gun way too often for it to be effective. Last game I played I lost my gun from 2/4 hits on my tank. It renders the tank completely useless, and if you really want to fix the Tiger that's one of the things that has to be changed for sure.

nafnist #133 Posted Jan 10 2011 - 02:56

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I too was getting a little frustrated with the tiger, but getting all the top modules, crew to Unteroffizer and the right equipment REALLY does make a huge difference.


Especially getting the crew to 100% makes a huge diffetence.

Granted the Tiger is still a bullet magnet, but thats how it is.
I like being popular hehe.

All in all, it was hell grinding it up, but it was worth it. So terrible until maxed, but then it will start to shine.

CommissarRykov #134 Posted Jan 10 2011 - 04:18

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View Postnafnist, on Jan 10 2011 - 02:56, said:

I too was getting a little frustrated with the tiger, but getting all the top modules, crew to Unteroffizer and the right equipment REALLY does make a huge difference.


Especially getting the crew to 100% makes a huge diffetence.

Granted the Tiger is still a bullet magnet, but thats how it is.
I like being popular hehe.

All in all, it was hell grinding it up, but it was worth it. So terrible until maxed, but then it will start to shine.
Completely agreed the grind was a pain in the ass but once you are done it was really worth it. I like it so much now that I have kept it instead of getting rid of it when I got my Tiger II which I didn't think I would when I first started with the Tiger.

__SNIPER__74 #135 Posted Jan 10 2011 - 05:01

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About the armor -

Is there a reason the Tiger I with 100mm @ 0 degrees seems to bounce nothing, while the VK3601 with the same nominal values of armor seems to bounce 76mm and 88 L/56 fire all day?

Seems odd

CommissarRykov #136 Posted Jan 10 2011 - 05:58

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View Postgabriel, on Jan 10 2011 - 05:01, said:

About the armor -

Is there a reason the Tiger I with 100mm @ 0 degrees seems to bounce nothing, while the VK3601 with the same nominal values of armor seems to bounce 76mm and 88 L/56 fire all day?

Seems odd
I don't get it myself either. The VK3601 was insane with the amount of bounces. I wish more tanks were like it because it could be untouchable at times.

zxqv8 #137 Posted Jan 10 2011 - 06:12

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I want to come here and link this picture:

Tiger Cutaway

And then ask everyone how getting shot at #40 will damage #18.

This has seriously happened to me, and I cannot comprehend it even a little bit.  It was at an angle, not straight on, so the shell would likely have gone through my front corner and passed out of the tank.  It came from a tier 9 or 10 Russian gun.  Did the shell careen around my tank enough to hit the engine way in the back?  Is this kind of shell behavior modeled in the game?

nafnist #138 Posted Jan 10 2011 - 06:21

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View Postgabriel, on Jan 10 2011 - 05:01, said:

About the armor -

Is there a reason the Tiger I with 100mm @ 0 degrees seems to bounce nothing, while the VK3601 with the same nominal values of armor seems to bounce 76mm and 88 L/56 fire all day?

Seems odd

Yea, this is wierd, but perhaps its the 3601 thats needs a nerf (lol i said nerf german tank)

but honestly I think the Tiger is awesome as is (but speed buff to 35km/h would be nice)




SpectreHD #139 Posted Jan 10 2011 - 11:06

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View Postzxqv8, on Jan 10 2011 - 06:12, said:

I want to come here and link this picture:

Tiger Cutaway

And then ask everyone how getting shot at #40 will damage #18.

This has seriously happened to me, and I cannot comprehend it even a little bit.  It was at an angle, not straight on, so the shell would likely have gone through my front corner and passed out of the tank.  It came from a tier 9 or 10 Russian gun.  Did the shell careen around my tank enough to hit the engine way in the back?  Is this kind of shell behavior modeled in the game?

Apparently from the Devs, transmission is part of the engine and as a result, getting shot from the front means engine damage. Of course, it was "historically" like this so we can have twice the chance of our engine getting damaged all the while not even being able to go close to its real life speed. Once again, historical specs for Russian tanks if it benefits them and historical specs for German tanks if it is a nerf.

Masterchief024 #140 Posted Jan 11 2011 - 02:24

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the t29 heavy tank (tier 7) of the americans has an mantlet armour (front turret) of 279MM
meanwhile the tiger I has only 100 MM at the mantlet.
The nominal armour thickness of the Tiger was reaching up to 200 mm at the mantlet.




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