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3 Things For The Tiger 1


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bangash #21 Posted Dec 17 2010 - 10:36

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View Postalm80, on Dec 17 2010 - 10:10, said:

After playing 282 battles with the tank and moving to KT, I think I can draw some conclusions about the tank:

Battles - 282
Victories - 108 (38%)
Maximum Destroyed - 7
Average XP - 455

I'd say that the tank is extremely poor in every possible aspect. Unupgraded it's just useless. No mobility, very poor gun, very poor armor.
When you upgrade it fully you'll get better mobility, slightly better armor and better gun, however:

The armor is not sloped at all and not thick enough. Anything above tier IV will damage you consistently even while auto-aiming. With damage you will get crit. hits. The most vulnerable are: gunner and ammo rack. If any of them hit, you are just a piece of slowly rolling junk.
The gun is average at best. Penetration is good. You can penetrate most tanks especially if you aim manually, but damage is terrible. You will have to shoot 4 times even at tier VI-VII mediums to finish them, you are hardly a threat to heavies of equal or higher tier. You will bounce a lot, even when in theory you shouldn't. I was bouncing from PZ IV's more than once. If you are sniping, your penetration will drop with distance, add to that piss poor damage of the gun and you get crappy sniping platform.
The only thing you can do is play TD style, but without TD bonuses you can't ambush well. Your tank is a giant paper made box and it can't hide well enough to avoid being shot. When you get shot - you die.

Overall, this tank can't perform its role - it can't play as heavy tank. It's more like surrogate TD. It's too easy to damage it and its damage output is too low to make it a threat to similar tier heavies.

To improve it - I'd add 20-25mm armor to the turret front and 10mm to turret sides. The best 88mm gun should do like 270dmg instead of 220 it does now. The speed should be increased to 35 km/h, the tank is too weak to be also so slow. That would put it on equal ground with other Tier VII tanks. Right now, Tiger can hardly be considered a heavy tank at all.

hehehe Dear, i will wait for your another conclusion about KT, when every time you will get crit hits, "ammo hit lucky it did'nt explode, reload is slow" "turrent jam" "gun damaged cant shoot accurately" "gunner dead" "loader dead"  "fire put it out" all the time i have heard these warnings in 514 battles on KT. http://forum.worldof...mile_amazed.gif

Mike_Hammer #22 Posted Dec 17 2010 - 10:55

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Tiger is junk stock yeah, far worse then stock IS, compounded by the lower starting skill of the crew if you moved them over from tier 6.

But once elited, it's a very capable tank. You're doing something wrong and should try to figure out what it is rather then bang your head against a wall doing the same thing over and over. KT has lots of vulnerabilities and shortcomings too, and if you don't take care to hide them from the enemy, you will get mashed in the KT as well.

For reference, and this is mostly from memory but should be about right

Battles: 181
Victories: 94 (52%)
Maximum destroyed: ....8 or 9 maybe?
Average xp: ~810

This was in the old engine, it should be better in the new engine when you can actually snipe long range and the super accurate gun can be used effectively.

Win rate is lower then I had in IS, and Tiger got fewer kills/game, but they did pretty much the same dmg/game. Most of the difference in win rate I'd attribute to the suckyness of the stock Tiger. I was down in low to mid 40% win rates before I got the long 88, which is when win rate started improving.

Top speed could be better but isn't a big deal. What it imho needs far more is better reverse speed. It is seriously disadvantaged in peek-a-boo games vs IS.

And T29 is just way better then either, but it's being changed soon.

Arkhell #23 Posted Dec 17 2010 - 11:18

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dmg is low because they are using standard AP shells while the real shells that were used were normall AP+HE filling which kinda wrecked the tank from the inside. and the penetration value isn't quite correct since 50% penetration on a plate sloped to 30% isn't teh same as 75% procent penetration on a straight plate as the russians did but hey thats a whole other can of snakes.

Armor is ok for it's time it's just that the tiger gets placed in matches vs tanks that were designed to counter it specificly but this can be remedied by manual sloping your armor i bid (front side) problem is your turret is still as thin as paper so won't do you mutch good anyway.

mobilitie.... well devs have a source thats it 30 km/h but most sources say 38/40 top but avarage 35 km/H speed limiter for the tiger weve been complaining about it for a while now no ETA on that or if it ever will be fixed.

thats about it.

Sturmtiger_304 #24 Posted Dec 17 2010 - 12:05

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I'd rather focus getting the suspension & the turret on the King Tiger than the engine.

Both engines are over 20k experience each, you would've easily reached the 105mm if you ignore the engines first & stick with the stock Tiger II engine.

JoDekker #25 Posted Dec 17 2010 - 12:56

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View Postalm80, on Dec 17 2010 - 10:10, said:

After playing 282 battles with the tank and moving to KT, I think I can draw some conclusions about the tank:

Battles - 282
Victories - 108 (38%)
Maximum Destroyed - 7
Average XP - 455

I'd say that the tank is extremely poor in every possible aspect.


I would get another conclusion from this, your driver is very poor.

Battles - 229
Victories - 126(55%)
Maximum Destroyed - 8
Average XP - 738

When looking at your stats i see a dmg ratio of only 50%, so every 2nd shot you fire misses. Dont tell me thats because you only snipe from long range. I use my Tiger as aggressive as every other tank and i get same statistics as in nearly every other tank i own (+-1%).

Herr_Klug #26 Posted Dec 17 2010 - 15:13

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With 100+ battles I am still trying to figure out how to use this brick on wheels. I wanted to try it before softwipe to see if it was worth it and I still want to try and make this work. If I am not bouncing shells with the long 88, I am missing completely (gunner & commander 100%) even with aiming reticle minimized. I try to follow peoples suggestions about it being a long range fighter ... but I am having limited success with that style as well.

Tracked ... ammo rack damaged ... pounded into the dirt.


Any particular equipment that is needed for this vehicle?

Arkhell #27 Posted Dec 17 2010 - 15:22

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wet ammorack helps.... a bid thing still gets hit every other round, toolbox is a must with a repairskill under 70% and a rammer.

Hell_Spawn #28 Posted Dec 17 2010 - 17:00

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View PostZingFreelancer, on Dec 16 2010 - 19:43, said:

Mind your language, no need to get personal


It's the idea that you would recommend doing it to one tank, and not another, based on historical value alone. My apologies if you're unable to read.

Don't take the bait. Either report or ignore.

Edited by Eide, Dec 18 2010 - 16:23.


silent255 #29 Posted Dec 17 2010 - 17:10

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On another note, the only reason I've even so much as considered unlocking the tiger is to get an elite VK. I've burned through plenty of tiger tanks and seen how they've preformed to just flat out not want to spend the time or energy on them.

Edited by Eide, Dec 18 2010 - 16:24.


BCTiger #30 Posted Dec 17 2010 - 18:09

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Have you really read these forums at all? have you seen how much better all the other Tier 7 tanks are then the Tiger 1? heck even Tier 6's can be considered better...which is just stupid that the VK3601H has better armour then the Tiger 1.

Maybe sum other tanks need buffs but how about you find which ones and suggest them instead of just putting down the Tiger 1.

Edited by Eide, Dec 18 2010 - 16:24.


Herr_Klug #31 Posted Dec 17 2010 - 18:52

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Loved the 3601H and I am having a hard time trying to figure out how to play the Tiger correctly. Even as a sniper (ie TD tactics) if I do manage to hit something and I do manage to penetrate (seems like half bounce even with long 88) ... the damage doesn't seem like much. I looked at the 3 T7 heavies and on paper they seem somewhat balanced ... but I'm having no luck it seems (only 100+ battles though).

Elysion #32 Posted Dec 17 2010 - 21:46

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230 battles
53% victory
Maximum destroyed: 6
Damage ratio 65% (ammo is cheap so i tend to shoot at bushes a lot =P Get kills now and then ~_^, i probably hit ~75-80% of my actual aimed shots where i can see the enemy)
Average exp: 592

The german heavy line was the first thing i went down, i got to the tiger and got around 100 games under my belt in it until i felt frustrated in it. My average exp per battle was only ~430 at this point. my victories were 49% or so, and i generally felt weak and underpowered.

So i went and played other things, mediums, spgs, tank destroyers.

2k battles later i went back to the tiger.

Im not sure how to do the math to figure out what my average exp per battle is from the last ~130 battles ive fought, but whatever it was it brought it up from low 400s to almost 600.

Currently sitting with a crew with 78% repair skill and an elited tiger.

I love the tiger. I recommend you play spgs to learn how to not get killed by spgs, and tank destroyers to learn how to play a little more cautiously. The tiger can definitely be aggressive if its near the top of the list, but if you are in a high tier game stay back and play like an agressive TD, which is to say 'close to medium range fire support for your teams push'. If you get a feel for enemy reloading times you can even fake out the enemy and cause them to miss a good deal of the time. This works not only for enemy tanks but even enemy spgs =P

No, its armor is not that great, but if you create your own angles and are careful you can bounce shots now and then.

The long 88 is a great gun to have on a tier 7 tank.

I was planning on sticking with my tiger, but a german heavy player i know has encouraged me to get a KT, so im going to farm enough money in my tiger to afford all the upgrade equipment i want (rammer stab and spall), and hopefuly get my repair skill up a good bit so i can transfer my crew over. But if you dont like the tiger i cant see you liking the KT, it basically looks to be a 'better tiger', but its paper nose means its not really a durable shell deflecting juggernaut it seems like you want =/

Inkompetent #33 Posted Dec 17 2010 - 23:21

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516 Battles
293 Victories (57%)
220 Battles survived
761 Destroyed
6 Maximum destroyed in battle
72% hit ratio (damage ratio)
613k damage done
655 avarage xp per battle (at least 75% of the games without premium)
46 Sniper medals

Equipped with rammer, coated optics (pondering to change to gun laying drive) and wet ammo rack.

It is my most played tank, with almost twice as many battles as my second most played (King Tiger). Sure, the tank takes damage if shot at. Nothing ever bounces. But a bad tank? Not in my world at least.

JamesDean #34 Posted Dec 18 2010 - 00:01

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The KT takes the tiger's strengths and improves on them.  It is a true successor to the tank.  The tiger on the other hand is a niche tank and takes more skill IMO, not a well rounded tank like the IS where you can get by and do about any battlefield role.

Quote

516 Battles
293 Victories (57%)
220 Battles survived
761 Destroyed
6 Maximum destroyed in battle
72% hit ratio (damage ratio)
613k damage done
655 avarage xp per battle (at least 75% of the games without premium)
46 Sniper medals

Equipped with rammer, coated optics (pondering to change to gun laying drive) and wet ammo rack.

It is my most played tank, with almost twice as many battles as my second most played (King Tiger). Sure, the tank takes damage if shot at. Nothing ever bounces. But a bad tank? Not in my world at least.

You are obviously anything but what your user name indicates.  Your stats are comparable to mine and my friend which are above the average IMO.  Hardly anybody I see has > 50% winrate with that tank, even me with 700 battles in this tank I struggle to get past 49%, which is easily not a problem in any other tank I have.  But, my stats are from the beginning of the softwipe when the tank was s**t and as durable as a pinata and I suffered.

I've got a rammer, wet ammo rack (from the old 'ammo rack days'), and a spall liner.  I'm also thinking about getting the GLD considering it takes WAY too long to focus for this tank.  If I had the KT's low aiming time...

Inkompetent #35 Posted Dec 18 2010 - 00:13

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Yeah, I'm bummed by the long aiming time of the L/71. The lack of vertical stabilizer really shows, and with a tank that's so dependant on getting the first shot, and shooting in brief windows of opportunity, making many long range shots quite impossible feats, while the KT would have been able to take such a snap shot.

xSystemFailurex #36 Posted Dec 18 2010 - 01:47

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You're doing it wrong. Tiger I is a beast and a money maker. 250ish creds per shot of 203 penetration and 220 dmg? Yes pls. Remember to never auto aim (ever), shoot KTs in the turret if no better option is available, and you're racking up the xp/creds.

PhoLover93 #37 Posted Dec 18 2010 - 04:51

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View PostJamesDean, on Dec 18 2010 - 00:01, said:

The KT takes the tiger's strengths and improves on them.  It is a true successor to the tank.  The tiger on the other hand is a niche tank and takes more skill IMO, not a well rounded tank like the IS where you can get by and do about any battlefield role.



You are obviously anything but what your user name indicates.  Your stats are comparable to mine and my friend which are above the average IMO.  Hardly anybody I see has > 50% winrate with that tank, even me with 700 battles in this tank I struggle to get past 49%, which is easily not a problem in any other tank I have.  But, my stats are from the beginning of the softwipe when the tank was s**t and as durable as a pinata and I suffered.

I've got a rammer, wet ammo rack (from the old 'ammo rack days'), and a spall liner.  I'm also thinking about getting the GLD considering it takes WAY too long to focus for this tank.  If I had the KT's low aiming time...


You know, a better win-rate doesnt mean that you are good... it just means you werent placed in a team of retarded goons very often.

Back on topic now. I loved my Tiger and still have it even after getting the KT. Playing to its strengths, it should be used as a somewhat-armored sniper. That's how i play it and i have no problem getting lots of exp/creds, the long 88 is truly a miraculous gun.

(you can dig up my stats if ya want, im not too shabby with the Tiger)

PhoLover93 #38 Posted Dec 18 2010 - 04:57

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View PostSturmtiger_304, on Dec 17 2010 - 12:05, said:

I'd rather focus getting the suspension & the turret on the King Tiger than the engine.

Both engines are over 20k experience each, you would've easily reached the 105mm if you ignore the engines first & stick with the stock Tiger II engine.
Yeah when you get your bare-bones Tiger, you should go for Tracks ---> Turret ---> Long 88 ---> Last engine
Unless you were an idiot and didnt research the last engine for the VK3601H, of course. :P

PhoLover93 #39 Posted Dec 18 2010 - 05:00

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You should also add that the power of the gun should be slightly upped. Say from 220 --> 250-260.

Armor values shouldnt be buffed imo, i think its fine as it is. However it should get the same type of armor as the VK3601, because that thing bounces more shots than my Tiger does.

BCTiger #40 Posted Dec 18 2010 - 05:10

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View PostJerryLopez, on Dec 18 2010 - 05:04, said:

Another stat person :rolleyes:

I think he's more referring to the fact that he hasn't played the Tiger 1 and doesn't know how it is to drive one aswell as his overall experience in this game.

But stats don't really matter atm bc they'll get wipe for release :P




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