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Vks, (H) And (P), L/56 And Pzkpfw? German Tank Names Explained


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Sturmtiger_304 #41 Posted Dec 28 2010 - 08:39

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I might also add to your post that the Ferdinand also was called: Elephant & the Hetzer means "trouble maker" in German.

But if you have any kind of info for the Geshutzwagen series, I'm not going to turn away.

seraph013 #42 Posted Dec 28 2010 - 18:47

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View PostChristian_Ankerstjerne, on Dec 28 2010 - 09:00, said:

If you want to get technical about it, the Jagdpanzer 38 was never officially named Hetzer. Rather, Hetzer was the name for the E-10. Hetzer was used by German troops for the Jagdpanzer 38 on some occasions, just like Königstiger was used unofficially for the Tiger II.

I meant classification as a tank destroyer

WhoopAss_McGue #43 Posted Dec 29 2010 - 15:53

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View PostChristian_Ankerstjerne, on Dec 27 2010 - 21:46, said:

Panzerspähwagen (Pz Sp Wg) is German for armoured reconnaissance vehicle
Schützenpanzerwagen (SchPzWg or Schütz Pz Wg) is German for armoured troop vehicle

Thanks! I shall add these. I have a paragraph or so from a book about 'SdKfz' numbers which I should've added by now, but my brother decided it'd be mega lulz to give be flu as a Christmas present, so I haven't got round to it.

View Postseraph013, on Dec 28 2010 - 07:20, said:

yep confirming jagd is referring to the hunt or pursuit of tanks.

I think Hetzer as hetze, to bother or agitate, or Hetzer as an agitator. Never took it as Baiter, especially in its context since it is one to prey on other tanks rather than bait being a tank destroyer (otherwise it would be incorrectly classified).

Yeah, I thought 'Baiter' was an odd name, thanks for this!


View PostDja_Djedje, on Dec 29 2010 - 01:44, said:

funny translation. Never heard of a desk called tiger :D and I'm German. So I'd definitely erase that.

What I meant was that for all the non-German speaking people of the world, the names such as 'Tiger' may not mean what the look like the mean, if you know what I mean.

xthetenth #44 Posted Dec 29 2010 - 23:55

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Don't forget (t) on the panzer 35 (t) and 38 (t) stands for tschechisch, or czech. The premium tank with a (f) is french similarly, it's a designation for stolen tanks  :P

PanzerPabstat #45 Posted Dec 30 2010 - 15:05

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Nice Topic!

According to Spielberger (in: Spielberger, Walter: Panzerkampfwagen Tiger und seine Abarten, Stuttgart 2010, S. 172 ff.), the HWA (Heereswaffenamt/"Army Weapons Department) gave the order to develop a armored SPG in 1943, based on the Tiger II Chassis. There was build one prototype, which was captured by american forces in Sennelager,wich was a famous proving ground for the german armored forces ( the well-known "Wochenschau" with the Tiger II parade of the sPzAbt503 was also filmed there).

The prototype was called "17 cm K 44 (SF) Geschützwagen VI", so the ingame used Name "GW Tiger" is not 100% historically correct. In fact, the version with the 21cm Mörser was projected as a "Grille II".

derkb #46 Posted Dec 30 2010 - 23:45

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View PostSturmtiger_304, on Dec 28 2010 - 08:39, said:

I might also add to your post that the Ferdinand also was called: Elephant
This is not true, well most mix these two up. They are nearly the same, but the Ferdinand was the one first in action. They did the same fault like on the early StuG and forgot the maschine gun for it, wich made it an easy target for infantrie.

So they converted the Ferdinand to the Elephant (Elefant) by adding a maschine gun on the radio opperator side.

This small point is the difference of these tanks and why they should not be mixed up.

Ferdinand
Posted Image

Elephant (watch for the maschine gun on the left side of the tank)
Posted Image

theta0123 #47 Posted Dec 31 2010 - 01:17

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View PostChristian_Ankerstjerne, on Dec 31 2010 - 01:07, said:

48 out of 89 survived the Eastern Front the first time around :)
a single russian soldier with demo charges killed 3 ferdi's.

As heinz guderian said about the elephant first, and later about the maus

Quote

On May 1 a wooden model of the "Maus", a tank project of Porsche and Krupp, was shown to Hitler. It was intended to mount a 150 mm gun. The total weight of the tank was supposed to reach 175 tons. It should be considered that after the design changes on Hitler's instructions the tank will weigh 200 tons. The model didn't have a single machine gun for close combat, and for this reason I had to reject it. It had the same design flaw that made the Elefant unsuitable for close combat. In the end, the tank will inevitably have to wage a close combat since it operates in cooperation with the infantry. An intense debate started, and except for me, all of the present found the "Maus" magnificent. It was promising to be exactly that, a "giant"


WhoopAss_McGue #48 Posted Dec 31 2010 - 16:35

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View PostChristian_Ankerstjerne, on Dec 30 2010 - 23:01, said:

No it's not. As I wrote, I have not found a single German source (i.e. World War II-era document), which officially refers to a Sturmgeschütz as StuG. None. I have of 15-20 kg of original and facsimile German manuals, data sheets, name lists and other documents, plus an additional ~10 000 scanned German World War II-era documents on my computer. Every official references to Sturmgeschütze I've found either write the name in full, or use some variation of the abbreviation Stu.-Gesch.

Perhaps it's a post-WW2 designation?

boxtosser #49 Posted Dec 31 2010 - 17:05

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Nashorn was sometimes also known as "Hornisse" (Hornet)

WhoopAss_McGue #50 Posted Jan 01 2011 - 16:52

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View Postxthetenth, on Dec 29 2010 - 23:55, said:

Don't forget (t) on the panzer 35 (t) and 38 (t) stands for tschechisch, or czech. The premium tank with a (f) is french similarly, it's a designation for stolen tanks  :P

Ah yes, I was going to add this but forgot to, thanks for the reminder!

View Postboxtosser, on Dec 31 2010 - 17:05, said:

Nashorn was sometimes also known as "Hornisse" (Hornet)

I didn't know this! Thanks! It'll be added to the OP.

theta0123 #51 Posted Jan 02 2011 - 15:08

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What are those wings on the VK 3002 db its hull?

Sheepmaster #52 Posted Jan 02 2011 - 19:25

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View Posttheta0123, on Jan 02 2011 - 15:08, said:

What are those wings on the VK 3002 db its hull?

Didn't dig anything, but as they are angled carefully i would opt for:

1. storage - fuel tank or ammo
2. engine part?

seraph013 #53 Posted Jan 02 2011 - 19:35

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View Poststygium, on Jan 01 2011 - 21:16, said:

For the Hetzer:
A "Hetzjagd" would be a chivvy. Hence German TDs were named "Jagdpanzer" which is a tankhunter, i would say that this would be an appropriate translation, still i do not know how i would translate "Hetzer". It would be the one entity that would bring out the hunted animal.
[http://dict.leo.org/...earch=hetzjagd]
(LEO is a good dictionary btw, if you ever are unsure about german words, it's a good start:))

Edit: yeah, "Baiter" should be the right translation. Sorry, did not see it when i first read the posts :/

Panzer was just referring to the armor chassis, ie armor combat vehicle (panzerkampfwagon). Jadg refers simply to the classification, ie tank hunter. Since the Hetzer is a name like the Elefant or Hummel, it wouldn't require a Jagd title. The Jagd title would be Jagd + whatever chassis it was built on which is probably on an early panzer setup like Is or IIs. Just like the StuG III referred to the pzr III chassis it was built on. I think it was mentioned on the OP's guide. Perhaps my definition of baiter isn't correct, though it still looks incorrect to call it baiter as a tank hunter.

Edit: Just looked it up on wikipedia:

Quote

The Jagdpanzer 38(t) (Sd.Kfz. 138/2), later known as Hetzer ("baiter"), was a German light tank destroyer of the Second World War based on a modified pre-war Czechoslovakian Panzer 38(t) chassis. The project was inspired by the Romanian "Mareşal" tank destroyer.

The name "Hetzer" was at the time not commonly used for this vehicle. It was the designation for a related prototype, the E-10. The Škoda factory for a very short period confused the two names in its documentation and the very first unit equipped with the vehicle thus for a few weeks applied the incorrect name until matters were cleared. However, there exists a memorandum from Heinz Guderian to Hitler incorrectly claiming that an unofficial name, Hetzer, had spontaneously been coined by the troops. Post-war historians basing themselves on this statement made the name popular in their works, the vehicle was never named as such in official documents.

There isn't any link to verify the translation on the site, so I suppose it's best to accept it as it is, "Baiter".

TheAvenger #54 Posted Jan 04 2011 - 05:06

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FuG, wich are known form the German tank-radios, means FunkGerät ( in English: Radio).

Thought someone wanted to know.

PzGrenKdr #55 Posted Jan 04 2011 - 09:50

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View Posttheta0123, on Jan 02 2011 - 15:08, said:

What are those wings on the VK 3002 db its hull?

this is a part of the engine and transmission coolingsystem, 1 side is the air-intake-fan and the other side the air-outtake one. If you look from the soil you see the "wings" are open.

PanzerPabstat #56 Posted Jan 04 2011 - 16:16

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View PostChristian_Ankerstjerne, on Jan 01 2011 - 14:32, said:

The abbreviation Stu. G. is used in the US TM-E 30-451 Handbook on Germany Military Forces, dated 1945-03-15. In the US military intelligence Special Series No. 12 German Military Abbreviations, dated 1943-04-12, the correct abbreviation Stu.Gesch. is used, next to the tentatively correct Stu.H.. Tentatively, because I can only ever recall seeing it in German sources without the periods, i.e. Stu H. The Germans also abbreviated Sturmkanone Stu K. One plausible explanation would be that some US desk clerk wanted to systematize the names a bit, and seing Stu H and Stu K, he figured Stu G would be a good bet for an abbreviation.

I own a copy of the 17. SS-Pz.Gren.Div.´s war diary and I can confirm that in every file considering action of the SS-Pz.Abt 17 , which consisted mostly of Sturmgeschütz III and IV, they are refered to as either "Stu.Gesch." or "Sturmgeschütz".

For example, the daily reports of the SS-Pz.Abt. 17 refering to number of available Tanks always uses the full word, e.g. Sturmgeschütz, Flakpanzer, Befehlspanzer and so on.

During Operation Nordwind, the sPzJgAbt. 653 was assigned to the "GvB" and they brought some Jagdtigers in action. One of them was lost, Number 134. In the AAR of the "GvB", the Jagdtigers are also called "Jagdpanzer VI" or "Jagdpanzer Tiger", but i could not find a report speaking of "Jagdtiger".

I added a picture of the destroyed "134" and the place how it looks today. I hope to find some relics of "134" on springtime this year.

By the way, it is not cleared until today how "134" was destroyed. Some sources give credits for the kill to a M36 Slugger, others say it was an infantry man with a bazooka. Considering the fact that the site is on open field on top of a hill and that the frontlines were not clear during the early days in january, its quite possible that a m36 got into a flanking position and made a lucky shot. On the other hand, the 3 Jagdtigers including "134" were in a waiting position and had no infantry support during that day, so its also possible that some brave G.I.´s managed to get near the vehicles.

rimling.jpg

rimling2.jpg

WhoopAss_McGue #57 Posted Jan 05 2011 - 08:37

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View Postaustrian_avenger, on Jan 04 2011 - 05:06, said:

FuG, wich are known form the German tank-radios, means FunkGerät ( in English: Radio).

Thought someone wanted to know.

Thanks! I figured the Fu was 'Funk' but couldn't for the life of me work out the G. Kinda reminds me of the 'FunkWagen' on CoH, it sounds like a party vehicle.

PanzerPabstat #58 Posted Jan 05 2011 - 13:49

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View PostChristian_Ankerstjerne, on Jan 04 2011 - 18:00, said:

Jagdtiger is used on Datenblatt G 360.

Yeah, that it was known as Jagdtiger i sout of the question. But i found in rather interesting, that it´s not called like that in the "GvB" AAR.

Djerin #59 Posted Jan 06 2011 - 12:24

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View Poststygium, on Jan 01 2011 - 21:16, said:

Edit: yeah, "Baiter" should be the right translation. Sorry, did not see it when i first read the posts :/
No, "baiter" is definitely not the right translation.

In common use there are two meanings to the word "hetzen" in Germany. One is a social meaning which would roughly translate to "stir up hatred" (by saying bad things about someone/something). The other one is a special type of hunting with dogs, that is usually done to hunt down red deer. The point there is to make the deer become tired so that he cant run away anymore at some point.

Obviously the hunting version is meant here. But don't take it too literally. The name is probably not meant to describe how exactly the Hetzer was employed. I presume the choice of name was just an attempt to give it a creative name from the hunting name space. If you know what I mean.

FryaDuck #60 Posted Jan 08 2011 - 17:52

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I would have said simply go to the WWII Vehicles website for most information. Some of the tanks in the game aren't at the site but more than sufficient.




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