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Why is WOT not popular in NA?


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Kevlar1972 #121 Posted Mar 19 2013 - 21:34

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View PostFlorbFnarb, on Mar 19 2013 - 21:31, said:

sighWhat corruption are you referring to in this game?

I guess he means the pay to play business model.  WOT is much more generous with their pay to play system than any other game I have seen.  Comparatively most would give you like 2 garage slots, only let you advance to tier 4, and limit you to a half dozen tank models total without paying real money to unlock each and every thing.

Dogahn #122 Posted Mar 19 2013 - 21:37

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Americans hate random
Your shot can do from X - Y penetration vs the armor of a tank at Z angle
Your shot can do from X - Y damage provided you didn't hit a module that can soak all the damage or is already too damaged to count
Your opponents crew could be %'s better than yours inflating that tanks performance numbers relative to yours
Accuracy is relatively inaccurate and armor values vary across the surface you're aiming at.

This game isn't as popular here because you can shoot at the same damn weakspot 5 times, hit 3 to take opponent down to 10% and then miss the next two allowing him to kill you.  It's not as popular because if you're not careful (or if they're good) a single round from across the map can send you back to the garage and all you know is that some lazy artillery guy did it (despite the fact that someone else saw you and you probably didn't use cover well enough).  This game has gambling elements to it, you put together a 10 game win streak and you feel like a god and the game is great up until that 20 game losing streak sets you straight and makes you quit playing for a while (or at least as much).

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Dogahn #123 Posted Mar 19 2013 - 21:41

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View PostKevlar1972, on Mar 19 2013 - 21:34, said:

I guess he means the pay to play business model.  WOT is much more generous with their pay to play system than any other game I have seen.  Comparatively most would give you like 2 garage slots, only let you advance to tier 4, and limit you to a half dozen tank models total without paying real money to unlock each and every thing.
Sounds like an EA game.

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FlorbFnarb #124 Posted Mar 19 2013 - 21:41

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View PostKevlar1972, on Mar 19 2013 - 21:34, said:

I guess he means the pay to play business model.  WOT is much more generous with their pay to play system than any other game I have seen.  Comparatively most would give you like 2 garage slots, only let you advance to tier 4, and limit you to a half dozen tank models total without paying real money to unlock each and every thing.

Yep.  This game is entirely playable without spending a single dime.  I think I had something like 8 or so slots before I first bought gold?  Now that premium ammo is available for credits and premium consumables will be available for credits soon too, I expect to spend gold for only the following things:
  • more garage spaces
  • potentially one more batch of barracks spaces
  • transferring complex equipment from one tank to another
  • possibly another premium tank if I find another one I absolutely must have
And that's probably it.  I have no burning desire for a premium account.  I don't train crews with gold.  I don't convert EXP, because the exchange rate is terrible.  I think it would cost something over $2.50 to buy a stock ELC with converted XP, based on the cost for the 6500 gold for $29.95 package.  I certainly don't just turn gold into credits.  So those four things above are it.

And yeah, lots of other games would have just a little taste of the game to get you hooked.  I played all the way to having a Tier 8 tank before I decided to buy any gold, and even still the only reason I did so was because I didn't have any tanks I wanted to get rid of.

FlorbFnarb #125 Posted Mar 19 2013 - 21:42

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View PostDogahn, on Mar 19 2013 - 21:37, said:

Americans hate random
Your shot can do from X - Y penetration vs the armor of a tank at Z angle
Your shot can do from X - Y damage provided you didn't hit a module that can soak all the damage or is already too damaged to count
Your opponents crew could be %'s better than yours inflating that tanks performance numbers relative to yours
Accuracy is relatively inaccurate and armor values vary across the surface you're aiming at.

This game isn't as popular here because you can shoot at the same damn weakspot 5 times, hit 3 to take opponent down to 10% and then miss the next two allowing him to kill you.  It's not as popular because if you're not careful (or if they're good) a single round from across the map can send you back to the garage and all you know is that some lazy artillery guy did it (despite the fact that someone else saw you and you probably didn't use cover well enough).  This game has gambling elements to it, you put together a 10 game win streak and you feel like a god and the game is great up until that 20 game losing streak sets you straight and makes you quit playing for a while (or at least as much).

Dogan
Its elementary watson.

Every game has chance in it.

VonBrown #126 Posted Mar 19 2013 - 21:53

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View PostFlorbFnarb, on Mar 19 2013 - 21:31, said:

sigh

What corruption are you referring to in this game?

New and old NA players alike often percieve certain elements of the game mechanics as cheating. Russians are used to being cheated.......

Kobra2009 #127 Posted Mar 19 2013 - 21:54

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View PostPr01337, on Mar 19 2013 - 00:16, said:

WOT is popular in China, Europe and Russia. Why is it not in NA?

Just curious.

Because we have higher standards in NA.. Seriously.  Reasons are many, but they ALL boil down to STANDARDS!

World of Tanks has serious issues that will prevent any sort of success in NA.  Arty, RNG, aged engine, flawed spotting mechanics, among other things aren't well tolerated in NA.  But I think the overall biggest reason is the lack of enforcement of literally EVERY aspect of this game.. Naming, ingame chat, account names, botting, and other things.. Virtually none of it is enforced.. NA gamers have outgrown the wild-west in gaming, and want a more civilized environment. Go to the player database, and do some searches for profane names.. You'll be shocked to find 2,000 pages of inflammatory, and sometimes outright illegal names.. ZERO enforcement.

China and Russia are basically throwbacks to the 1980s.. A lot of this stuff was tolerated by 1980's gamers in NA, but today? Forget it.  Circa 2003 graphic engine in WOT doesn't help.. NA gamers have powerful machines, Chinese and Russian gamers do not, WOT looks great to them, and looks like rubbish to people in NA. Sorry but that's fact, statistics don't lie. Penetration of powerful GPU's is very small in those countries in comparison to  NA.  NA crowd demands high end graphics, and WOT falls ridiculously short.

I can play SWTOR for days, and never see an inflammatory name, or even a rude chat message. I can play SWTOR PVP and guarantee RNG won't spoil an effective fight. I can basically be guaranteed to not run into botters. Enforcement is aggressive, and unforgiving, and the environment is quite condusive to quality gaming.. While SWTOR isn't a stunning success it still beats the snot out of WOT (7 servers, usually heavy/full, so 60,000-70,000 on at once), point to any NA based MMO and the environment is basically the same - friendly.

Also NA consumers are more 'discerning', and WOT is way overpriced.. $100.00 in STO, SWTOR, MWO, Firefall,  or COL (or any other quality NA MMO) will buy you the stars.. In this game it gets you an average tank, and some premium time.. Pathetic really, the pricing model is a rip off, and most consumers in NA know this and won't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Kobra2009 #128 Posted Mar 19 2013 - 22:00

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View PostVonBrown, on Mar 19 2013 - 21:53, said:

New and old NA players alike often percieve certain elements of the game mechanics as cheating. Russians are used to being cheated.......

Actually being cheated is considered Russian.  Not joking, and as someone that has done business there - it's not a good place to do business. They actually feel they are doing YOU a favor selling you something, not the other way around as a buyer.  Worse, they feel if they didn't cheat you, someone else will..  It's not a good country to live, or even visit, it's actually pretty hostile, and is a throwback to the 1980's USA.. Literally every city looks like USA did in the 1980s, and they have a lot of the same junk still in use we did back then!

Tankbeard #129 Posted Mar 19 2013 - 22:01

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View PostKobra2009, on Mar 19 2013 - 21:54, said:

Because we have higher standards in NA.. Seriously.  Reasons are many, but they ALL boil down to STANDARDS!

World of Tanks has serious issues that will prevent any sort of success in NA.  Arty, RNG, aged engine, flawed spotting mechanics, among other things aren't well tolerated in NA.  But I think the overall biggest reason is the lack of enforcement of literally EVERY aspect of this game.. Naming, ingame chat, account names, botting, and other things.. Virtually none of it is enforced.. NA gamers have outgrown the wild-west in gaming, and want a more civilized environment. Go to the player database, and do some searches for profane names.. You'll be shocked to find 2,000 pages of inflammatory, and sometimes outright illegal names.. ZERO enforcement.

China and Russia are basically throwbacks to the 1980s.. A lot of this stuff was tolerated by 1980's gamers in NA, but today? Forget it.  Circa 2003 graphic engine in WOT doesn't help.. NA gamers have powerful machines, Chinese and Russian gamers do not, WOT looks great to them, and looks like rubbish to people in NA. Sorry but that's fact, statistics don't like. Penetration of powerful GPU's is very small in those countries in comparison to  NA.  NA crowd demands high end graphics, and WOT falls ridiculously short.

I can play SWTOR for days, and never see an inflammatory name, or even a rude chat message. I can play SWTOR PVP and guarantee RNG won't spoil an effective fight. I can basically be guaranteed to not run into botters. Enforcement is aggressive, and unforgiving, and the environment is quite condusive to quality gaming.. While SWTOR isn't a stunning success it still beats the snot out of WOT (7 servers, usually heavy/full, so 60,000-70,000 on at once), point to any NA based MMO and the environment is basically the same - friendly.

Also NA consumers are more 'discerning', and WOT is way overpriced.. $100.00 in STO, SWTOR, MWO, Firefall,  or COL (or any other quality NA MMO) will buy you the stars.. In this game it gets you an average tank, and some premium time.. Pathetic really, the pricing model is a rip off, and most consumers in NA know this and won't touch it with a ten food pole.

This guy sais it the best so far!!! Good read, but will get ignored by the devs, which is sad but true!

Kobra2009 #130 Posted Mar 19 2013 - 22:03

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View PostMeplat, on Mar 19 2013 - 00:18, said:

Other than it hasn't been out very long?

4.3 years isn't a very long time?  Really? That's like an eternity in the MMO business.

If they can't grow at a reasonable pace over nearly 5 years then it means only one thing.. CHURN.. They lose people too quickly, and have virtually no customer retention.  I would guess they have an 80% churn rate.. Which means 80% of the people that try WOT, don't actually end up sticking around. Of the 20% that do stick around, I would say 80% of that 20% actually play casually, and infrequently.

Laurys #131 Posted Mar 19 2013 - 22:04

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View PostKobra2009, on Mar 19 2013 - 21:54, said:

Also NA consumers are more 'discerning', and WOT is way overpriced.. $100.00 in STO, SWTOR, MWO, Firefall,  or COL (or any other quality NA MMO) will buy you the stars.. In this game it gets you an average tank, and some premium time.. Pathetic really, the pricing model is a rip off, and most consumers in NA know this and won't touch it with a ten food pole.

Y'know, back before SWTOR dropped the subscription fee, it was $15 a month.
1 year of premium costs you ~$8 a month -- almost half that.

The tier 8 premium tanks are on the expensive side, but they're not necessary for you to enjoy the game.

HappyWulf #132 Posted Mar 19 2013 - 22:20

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This game requires time and patience. Which unfortunately most Americans seem to lack. I think adding a respawn type mode would help the situation as it would allow the player to try stuff out over and over again without the frustration of dying and being out of the game.

Zakume #133 Posted Mar 20 2013 - 00:40

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View PostSHISHKABOB, on Mar 19 2013 - 19:50, said:

I agree with this post. WoT is a very grindy game and grindy games are a big turn-off for many people. It's easy to try and turn that around and attempt to put down the average person for liking "easy" games like CoD or whatever, but the truth is that when people play video games they just want to have fun. If it takes a long hard nasty grind to get to the point where you can really have fun and enjoy a more nuanced game, then many people are just not going to want to put forth the effort. Not because they can't, but because it's just not worth it when there are other games out there that can be just as fun and awesome, but don't require such a brutal grind.

Hmmm, I never found it too grindy, only mildly. A game like SRO though, now that is grindy.

View PostKevlar1972, on Mar 19 2013 - 21:34, said:

I guess he means the pay to play business model.  WOT is much more generous with their pay to play system than any other game I have seen.  Comparatively most would give you like 2 garage slots, only let you advance to tier 4, and limit you to a half dozen tank models total without paying real money to unlock each and every thing.

WoT is F2P...did I miss something?

FlorbFnarb #134 Posted Mar 20 2013 - 00:46

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View PostSHISHKABOB, on Mar 19 2013 - 19:50, said:

I agree with this post. WoT is a very grindy game and grindy games are a big turn-off for many people. It's easy to try and turn that around and attempt to put down the average person for liking "easy" games like CoD or whatever, but the truth is that when people play video games they just want to have fun. If it takes a long hard nasty grind to get to the point where you can really have fun and enjoy a more nuanced game, then many people are just not going to want to put forth the effort. Not because they can't, but because it's just not worth it when there are other games out there that can be just as fun and awesome, but don't require such a brutal grind.

I've never felt that most grinds are intolerable, generally speaking.  There are specific tanks that are genuinely hell - I'm looking at you, Mr. AMX 38 - but fortunately they're at a low enough tier that they can be handled.  Although I do hear that people stuck in the French TD line feel like they're in the ninth circle of hell.

Dragonego #135 Posted Mar 20 2013 - 02:06

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View PostCoke_a_Cola, on Mar 19 2013 - 02:44, said:

I play both CoD and WoT.. The main draw here for me, is a differant play style,,

What draws people away from WoT ??
1. Little to no balance in the game..
2. The so called RNG
3. The not so random MM
4. The constant nurfing of tanks
5. The constant Buffs of most Russian tanks
6. Customer Support
7. Price's in the gift shop
8. Over  all community attitude
9. Introduction of new tanks before more important things are fixed
10. Lack of feed back from WG on any issue's such as, AFK players, BOT's, and several other issues.
11, Bad servers
12. Arty, being as OP as it is..
I could go on for days... However I wont..

I know players from many different games that have came, played, and left while citing most of what I listed above and more..
Sure there are people like me who stick it out and play, or, TRY to play, but until WG does something to retain players, this game will be like ATARI's "Space Invaders" and collecting dust in the back a few peoples minds..

Anyway, I am here until they shut the server off, weather that is this week or two years down the road.. I just like seeing tanks being destroyed..

Exactly this. This is why I stopped buying premium and stopped playing the game every day. I want to punch a wall in the face after playing just 2-5 battles now.

A1x2e3l #136 Posted Mar 20 2013 - 02:47

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The answer might come from answering another question: Why WoT is so popular in Russia?

WoT is a niche game (tanks, WW2 “based”, shallow but nice looking arcade F/TPS) that does not have strong cultural, historical background in NA. On the other hand, WW2 victory monuments of tanks (usually T-34) as it was mentioned are standing almost in every Russian town (e.g. http://en.visitkamch.../dost/8358.aspx ). Numerous tanks produced before, during, and after the war were a symbol of soviet pride, military backbone (alongside with the zillions of nukes) for their world domination ambitions. There are very many popular patriotic songs and movies about tanks and tankers (including the recent mystic “White tiger”). Americans are clearly more interested in aircraft, navy, special forces (guns) because of geographical reasons.

Moreover, Russia is not in a good shape now: from a world super power down to a miserable dependent crude-oil exporter with few rusty rockets. Rapidly developed complex of insufficiency requires urgent therapeutic measures: wild aggressiveness and resurrection of soviet myths about glorious past. WoT provides such sublimation and openly exploits this dramatic situation commercially.

Westerners and Americans specifically used to play a fair game (equal chances to damage and to kill a virtual enemy). How long can you tolerate frustrating “we cannot even scratch them”? But for WG this is called “challenge” and the way the company earns money. They do all what they can to please Americans (SerB has declared a while ago NA market as their number one priority): numerous super-duper paper post-war HTs (with drums, without drums), TDs (with turret, without turrets), “flying” LTs, arty with the “most powerful gun in the game”, etc. were released. And you are still not happy?

egikov #137 Posted Mar 20 2013 - 03:12

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View PostA1x2e3l, on Mar 20 2013 - 02:47, said:

The answer might come from answering another question: Why WoT is so popular in Russia?

WoT is a niche game (tanks, WW2 “based”, shallow but nice looking arcade F/TPS) that does not have strong cultural, historical background in NA. On the other hand, WW2 victory monuments of tanks (usually T-34) as it was mentioned are standing almost in every Russian town (e.g. http://en.visitkamch.../dost/8358.aspx ). Numerous tanks produced before, during, and after the war were a symbol of soviet pride, military backbone (alongside with the zillions of nukes) for their world domination ambitions. There are very many popular patriotic songs and movies about tanks and tankers (including the recent mystic “White tiger”). Americans are clearly more interested in aircraft, navy, special forces (guns) because of geographical reasons.

Moreover, Russia is not in a good shape now: from a world super power down to a miserable dependent crude-oil exporter with few rusty rockets. Rapidly developed complex of insufficiency requires urgent therapeutic measures: wild aggressiveness and resurrection of soviet myths about glorious past. WoT provides such sublimation and openly exploits this dramatic situation commercially.

Westerners and Americans specifically used to play a fair game (equal chances to damage and to kill a virtual enemy). How long can you tolerate frustrating “we cannot even scratch them”? But for WG this is called “challenge” and the way the company earns money. They do all what they can to please Americans (SerB has declared a while ago NA market as their number one priority): numerous super-duper paper post-war HTs (with drums, without drums), TDs (with turret, without turrets), “flying” LTs, arty with the “most powerful gun in the game”, etc. were released. And you are still not happy?
Not every city in Russia has monuments of tanks. They are rare and usually on the outside of towns that had major WW2 fighting. There are more tank monuments and museums in the USA.
In USSR after the war, most tanks, planes and ships were destroyed or sold to other countries. Most land lease vehicles were also destroyed or melted down, so not to return to US or England.

Guns and planes are also popular in Russia. Everyone knows AK-47 and MIGs. There are monuments of planes next to the factories where they were build. Ships are not that popular, but Sevastopol has some monuments of ships too, not too big though. And cruiser Aurora in St.Petersburg is still floating.

WG need to add multiturret support. If they'll make it, I'll buy M3 Lee again.

Edited by egikov, Mar 20 2013 - 03:12.


Zakume #138 Posted Mar 20 2013 - 04:36

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View PostA1x2e3l, on Mar 20 2013 - 02:47, said:

The answer might come from answering another question: Why WoT is so popular in Russia?

WoT is a niche game (tanks, WW2 “based”, shallow but nice looking arcade F/TPS) that does not have strong cultural, historical background in NA. On the other hand, WW2 victory monuments of tanks (usually T-34) as it was mentioned are standing almost in every Russian town (e.g. http://en.visitkamch.../dost/8358.aspx ). Numerous tanks produced before, during, and after the war were a symbol of soviet pride, military backbone (alongside with the zillions of nukes) for their world domination ambitions. There are very many popular patriotic songs and movies about tanks and tankers (including the recent mystic “White tiger”). Americans are clearly more interested in aircraft, navy, special forces (guns) because of geographical reasons.

Moreover, Russia is not in a good shape now: from a world super power down to a miserable dependent crude-oil exporter with few rusty rockets. Rapidly developed complex of insufficiency requires urgent therapeutic measures: wild aggressiveness and resurrection of soviet myths about glorious past. WoT provides such sublimation and openly exploits this dramatic situation commercially.

Westerners and Americans specifically used to play a fair game (equal chances to damage and to kill a virtual enemy). How long can you tolerate frustrating “we cannot even scratch them”? But for WG this is called “challenge” and the way the company earns money. They do all what they can to please Americans (SerB has declared a while ago NA market as their number one priority): numerous super-duper paper post-war HTs (with drums, without drums), TDs (with turret, without turrets), “flying” LTs, arty with the “most powerful gun in the game”, etc. were released. And you are still not happy?

More Golden Era of tanks based than WW2 based. WoT is also popular in the EU which is a playerbase similar with NA.

The difficulty in not being able to penetrate some tanks from the front with some guns I do find it a challenge and not "imbalance". If that happened to me as a newbie I would think "ok well how can I make it so I can pen him and do damage?", not to mention you could just relocate and or do something else than face that tank; I would try flanking, or shooting various parts of his tank. Eventually I will learn how to do damage to that tank and I will remember that, ie: learning/using your head/thinking/tactics/strategy. That's what I think is the difference, among other things, is the way NA players think about what the word challenge means, and if it only means "I = you and you = me, and we both are completely identical and the only thing to distinguish ourselves apart is how fast I click my button vs you doing the same, whereas challenge in the way WoT is made, and at least how I see it for this game, is built into the game—like a single player game—except that a player is controlling that "boss monster" and it adds more factors into the equation.

Also on the whole "tanks not being in NA culture", I grew up in NA and I've always thought of the best, most powerful thing on land, is the tank; battleship for the oceans, and jet fighters in the air. I never thought of some guy in some special unit single-handedly saving the world and being invincible and all that, that the FPS games seem to promote. Then again, I grew up playing racing games(among others), liking cars, and being ok with the idea of "there is no person in there, it's just a car" or "the car is the person/soul/you" perhaps like Knightrider without the driver idk. I also loved playing with my matchbox/hotwheels/random brand cars driving them on the carpet and stuff, so Idk if that was odd for an NA kid, but it would seem so.

Edited by Zakume, Mar 20 2013 - 04:39.


megumino2 #139 Posted Mar 20 2013 - 04:41

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Longer learning curve

hunting_tabby #140 Posted Mar 20 2013 - 05:03

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I live amongst the Americans...they are a wiley and fiscally prudent people (unlike their government).

Americans are too clever to waste their time on a game like this.




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