Jump to content


What is this device?

Leopard 1

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
33 replies to this topic

maxman1 #21 Posted Apr 13 2013 - 23:39

    Major

  • Players
  • 4640 battles
  • 2,301
  • Member since:
    11-10-2011

View PostEnsignExpendable, on Mar 21 2013 - 19:13, said:

You have a very strange view of what tank combat is like.

Given how anti-militaristic modern Germany is (there was public outcry at German soldiers being deployed to Afghanistan in rearguard positions), it wouldn't surprise me at all if that were how the modern German Army conducted armoured combat.

Blackhorse_Six_ #22 Posted Apr 14 2013 - 01:06

    Major

  • Players
  • 48160 battles
  • 10,030
  • [HHT] HHT
  • Member since:
    03-19-2011

View PostArnim, on Mar 21 2013 - 19:14, said:

Is that Leopard II on there?

At least, a Leo 2A2 ...

View PostEnsignExpendable, on Mar 21 2013 - 19:13, said:

You have a very strange view of what tank combat is like.

Most Gamers do ...

View Postket101, on Mar 21 2013 - 10:58, said:

Tilting device, to test how far the tank can be tilted without rolling over.  That's my guess.  They have things like that for other vehicles, such as buses and 4WD's.

Doubtful ... I agree with pwrup here ... this can be calculated during the design process ... and verified at the proving ground.

View Postcarlm13, on Mar 21 2013 - 22:24, said:

looking at the large wooden structure behind it im wondering if its an elaborate and over engineered loading and unloading device -- maybe to lift the tank on and off railway cars or transports? be interesting to know if the platform can rotate as well as lift up and down on the hydraulic ram.

The cribbing in back of the rig is a drive-on platform, leading to the load-bed, which would have to rotate at least 90 degrees in the horizontal plane (hydraulic hoses hanging, center of photo) to allow the tank to drive onto the load-bed. The entire rig would have to be leveled or stabilized - if you examine the rig closely, you will see that the legs in the foreground are leveled (hydraulically) vs steel load-plates. The whole rig is also anchored somewhat by steel pins. Wooden cribbing is used, globally, to support heavy machinery during movement, transport, and rigging. The cribbing in this case may also be earth-filled to stabilize the construct (Similar constructs, or cribs, may also be used as anti-tank obstacles).

View Postpwrup, on Mar 22 2013 - 02:05, said:

Modern tanks are CAD engineered. Their center of gravity is calculated exactly before a prototype is even built. They do roll testing for vehicles that carry civilians and for vehicles that actually have a chance of rolling over and they are done at speed. Why test for rollover in the field? This is obviously a field trailer of some sort.  Heavy equipment trailer's rear wheels remove for loading and off loading . Here we see no wheels which is appropriate,  but the hook is there; it is a trailer. Probably a prototype itself;why would a regular service trailer need timber to load a tank. did they lose the ramps?? I believe It is an articulating load  elevating trailer prototype that allows tanks to be loaded and unloaded in unusual circumstances. Someone else suggested rail cars. After that I would love to know the truth.

Apologies that I didn't read this correctly on the first pass ... You may be right, but the Germans already have simple low-boy trailers for this purpose ... drive-on, drive-off. The rig in the photo would have to be stupidly expensive for the same purpose - I can't imagine hauling a company of tanks like this, let alone a battalion. Hmmm ... stupidly expensive ... Washington may be involved ...

View Postbalmung60, on Mar 21 2013 - 22:31, said:

But seriously, it's for measuring radar reflections off the tank at various angles.

I like this ... The radar would probably be inside a protected housing, with a restricted aperture ... no muss, no fuss, and limited exposure to researchers. Since the rig has a rather limited angle of elevation, the radar or other sensor would have to have some elevation capability to get topside data  ... Which might also explain why the platform is made from timbers - it may have to be removed to keep "clutter" at a minimum.

View PostEnsignExpendable, on Mar 21 2013 - 22:31, said:

There is no advantage of doing this over using a crane.

Agree, and rail-loading is usually accomplished via a drive-on ramp.

I have looked at several hundred photos of the Leopard, and tank transporters - No match, so I think we can rule that out ...

It does appear to have a tow-ring on it, so there is probably a truck (wheel-set) or two nearby.

I remember this thing, vaguely, but damned if I can recall the details ... too bad we don't have a photo of the back side of it ...

Chieftain?

KnightmareX13 #23 Posted Apr 14 2013 - 02:41

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 3572 battles
  • 604
  • Member since:
    01-07-2013

View Postket101, on Mar 21 2013 - 10:58, said:

Tilting device, to test how far the tank can be tilted without rolling over.  That's my guess.  They have things like that for other vehicles, such as buses and 4WD's.
that looks kind of overkill and if the tank did fall out of that rig I would be amazed if it wasn't damaged, plus with tanks being expensive I am sure there are cheaper ways of testing what point the tank will roll over.

Daigensui #24 Posted Apr 14 2013 - 15:29

    Major

  • Players
  • 30489 battles
  • 29,975
  • [KANCO] KANCO
  • Member since:
    11-09-2012

View PostKankou, on Apr 14 2013 - 14:59, said:

Answer: Mobile Dreh-Kipp-Plattform or WTD 91. This particular one is used by the Bundeswehr to test radar signatures.

Posted Image

Tanks may operate via line of sight on the ground when engaging each other, but as we all know they are susceptible to other forms of attack. The radar cross section testing is not just for tank to tank combat, but how the tank may fare against, for example, air-launched or pop-up ground-launched anti-tank missiles.


Blackhorse_Six_ #25 Posted Apr 15 2013 - 00:05

    Major

  • Players
  • 48160 battles
  • 10,030
  • [HHT] HHT
  • Member since:
    03-19-2011
Damn ... That tower is huge - nothing at all like the lattice gantry I imagined ...

HeritageTanker #26 Posted Apr 15 2013 - 06:43

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 43440 battles
  • 302
  • Member since:
    01-10-2012
The picture is small, but that looks oddly like a modernized flakturm.

Rhomer #27 Posted Apr 15 2013 - 10:58

    Captain

  • Players
  • 22634 battles
  • 1,042
  • Member since:
    07-23-2011

View PostHeritageTanker, on Apr 15 2013 - 06:43, said:

The picture is small, but that looks oddly like a modernized flakturm.
old habits die hard.
Seems odd they would need a device for this. Radar works very consistently and if you know the structural dimensions of an object and its composition you can derive a highly accurate model of its radar reflectivity without doing anything this ridiculous. Its how they do it with aircraft for example.

Daigensui #28 Posted Apr 15 2013 - 16:20

    Major

  • Players
  • 30489 battles
  • 29,975
  • [KANCO] KANCO
  • Member since:
    11-09-2012

View PostRhomer, on Apr 15 2013 - 10:58, said:

old habits die hard.
Seems odd they would need a device for this. Radar works very consistently and if you know the structural dimensions of an object and its composition you can derive a highly accurate model of its radar reflectivity without doing anything this ridiculous. Its how they do it with aircraft for example.

That's because you can't always rely on models.

Rhomer #29 Posted Apr 16 2013 - 01:02

    Captain

  • Players
  • 22634 battles
  • 1,042
  • Member since:
    07-23-2011

View PostKankou, on Apr 15 2013 - 16:20, said:

That's because you can't always rely on models.
Depends on what you're looking for. If you are looking for relative RADAR reflectivity for purposes involving low observability, a mathematical model incorporating the physical elements of the subject will bring it within a razors edge of absolute. RADAR is effected by atmospheric, local, and equipment variances to enough degree that the math model would give you a better image than a real world test would anyway. Anything your model would confirm would be the best case scenario in terms of the RADARs ability. And since equipment variances in these kinds of things assume the best perfomance for themselves and enemy systems, thats what would be proofed against.

Daigensui #30 Posted Apr 16 2013 - 01:10

    Major

  • Players
  • 30489 battles
  • 29,975
  • [KANCO] KANCO
  • Member since:
    11-09-2012
BTW, seems like the Sandheim tower has infrared sensors, laser scanner, ultraviolet spectrum sensors, etc, so this is a multi-purpose testing platform. Seems good enough to actually test it out rather than rely solely on models.

Blackhorse_Six_ #31 Posted Apr 16 2013 - 01:35

    Major

  • Players
  • 48160 battles
  • 10,030
  • [HHT] HHT
  • Member since:
    03-19-2011

View PostKankou, on Apr 16 2013 - 01:10, said:

BTW, seems like the Sandheim tower has infrared sensors, laser scanner, ultraviolet spectrum sensors, etc, so this is a multi-purpose testing platform. Seems good enough to actually test it out rather than rely solely on models.

When I speculated on this the first time in Post #22 (then withdrew the paragraph), I wondered that it might not be so much the tank being tested, but rather the tower equipment ... I have worked on similar projects.

Daigensui #32 Posted Apr 16 2013 - 01:45

    Major

  • Players
  • 30489 battles
  • 29,975
  • [KANCO] KANCO
  • Member since:
    11-09-2012
It's probably both. Two birds with one stone.

Xlucine #33 Posted Apr 16 2013 - 16:13

    Major

  • Players
  • 7663 battles
  • 7,603
  • [C-BOO] C-BOO
  • Member since:
    03-03-2011

View PostKankou, on Apr 16 2013 - 01:10, said:

Seems good enough to actually test it out rather than rely solely on models.

And test the models of course, just to be sure.

EnsignExpendable #34 Posted Apr 16 2013 - 17:57

    Major

  • Players
  • 23745 battles
  • 17,792
  • [SGLE] SGLE
  • Member since:
    04-22-2011
You do both, simulations and real life testing. Hammering out a thing in MATLAB is much easier than building a "tank catapult".





Also tagged with Leopard 1

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users