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Hall of KV-4 Design proposals

kv-4 kliment voroshilov heavy tank russian world war two

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Giganaut #1 Posted May 23 2013 - 16:27

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The KV-4 Project:

(note: i modelled these in Google sketchup, with existing plans provided in Battlefield.ru with their collected data given.(somewhat proved to be a bit insufficient because it was missing a few things.)  this thread could be the official if not centralized discussion thread for all KV-4s)


This particular KV series is an interesting one in the Kliment Voroshilov heavy tank program. Its design purpose was to withstand any german gun and to destroy any opposing heavy german tanks. It was to remain unbuilt as its design proposals will be used if the time comes when it is needed.

Designers began to work on the KV-4 design in April 1941. Since the Kirov Plant did not have experience in this area, the chief of the SKB-2, J. Kotin, assigned almost all the engineers of his design bureau to the design of this tank and placed it on a competitive basis.


All the designers addressed this assignment with great enthusiasm. Their task was sufficiently difficult: the mounting of two cannons and 125-130 mm armor that had never been employed before on Soviet tanks led to the necessity to strengthen the chassis and conditioned a sharp increase in the weight of the tank. The creative thought of the participants in the design was not limited, and the designers took advantage of this. In consideration of the required specifications, they developed and put forth a relatively diverse spectrum of ideas. They considered the design of 80-, 90-, and even 100-ton tanks. The lightest of the designs was submitted by engineer N. Dukhov - 82.5 tons. The heaviest was by the designer G. Kruchenykh - 107 tons.


The layout decisions were also very diverse. Designers K. Buganov,G. Kruchenykh, F. Marishkin, G. Moskvin, N. Strukov, and S. Fedorenko, each working on his own design, suggested single-turret variants of the heavy tank with the mounting of the 107 mm Tank Cannon in the main turret, and a 45 mm Tank Cannon in a small turret located above the main turret, a "second floor" as it were.


Buganov’s proposal
Specifications: (estimated size scaled to fit with KV-1’s road wheel)


Length: 7.03m
Width: 3.3m
Height: 2.77m
Ground clearance: 0.52m
Combat weight: ? tons

Engine: Diesel M-40 outputting 1200hp
Radio: 10-R series
Crew: 5



Armor:
Hull: 130/80/130
Turret: 135/130/130
Sec. Turret: 50/50/50

Armaments:
1x 107mm Zis-6
2x 7.62mm DT
1x 45mm 20-K

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Kruchenykh’s proposal

Specifications: (direct from Battlefield.ru’s data sheet)

Length: 9.13m
Width:   4.03m
Height: 3.78m
Ground clearance:   0.55m

Combat weight:    107 tons

Engine: Diesel M-40 outputting 1200hp
Radio:   10-R series
Crew: 9

Armor:
Hull: 130/130/130
Turret: 140 /140/140

Armaments:
1x 107mm Zis-6
1x 45mm 20-k
3x 7.62mm DT
1x flamethrower (frontal sec. turret)
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Fedorenko’s proposal
Specifications: (estimated size scaled to fit with KV-1’s road wheel)

Length: 8.8m
Width: 3.675m
Height: 3.635m
Ground clearance: 0.45m
Combat weight: ? tons

Engine: Diesel M-40 outputting 1200hp
Radio: 10-R series
Crew: 6

Armor:
Hull: 130/130/130
Turret: 140/140/140
Sec. Turret: 120/120/120

Armaments:
1x 107mm Zis-6
3x 7.62mm DT
1x unknown gun (receiver in plan loos too big for a DT.)
1x 45mm 20-K (AA purposes)



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Designers A. Yermolaev, L. Sychev, L. Pereverzev, Bykov, and two workers whose signatures are missing from the working drawings, suggested a two-turret variant of the tank with the mounting of a 107 mm Cannon in a large central turret, as on the SMK tank, and a 45 mm Gun in a separate turret located in the bow portion of the hull.

Pereverzev's proposal

Specifications: (scaled to KV-1 road wheel)
Length: 9.4m
Width:   3.57m
Height: 3.45m
Ground clearance:   0.5m

Combat weight:    ? tons

Engine: Diesel M-40 outputting 1200hp
Radio:   10-R series

Crew: 9

Armor:
Hull: 140/125/130
Turret: 140 /130/130

Armaments:
1x 107mm Zis-6
1x 45mm 20-k
4x 7.62mm DT

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KV-4 that was done by an unknown author. so i decided to name it the KV-4 11. as it is named after it's plan's filename
also the tank is scaled to KV-1's roadwheel also since it had the secondary turret in the front hull, so i'll place this under categories with perevezev's

Proposal 11

Specifications: tank scaled to KV-1s roadwheel

Length: 8.317m
Width:   3.572m
Height: 3.121m
Ground clearance:   0.561m


Combat weight:    ? tons

Engine: Diesel M-40 outputting 1200hp
Radio:   10-R series

Crew: 6

Armor:
Hull: 135/130/135
Turret: 135/135/135


Armaments:
1x 107mm Zis-6
1x 45mm 20-k
3x 7.62mm DT


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Designers N. Dukhov (model existing ingame) and M. Kreslavskiy in their designs recommended pairing the guns in one turret, and engineer N. Shashmurin proposed mounting the 107 mm Cannon in a casemate fashion in the hull on a pedestal with a 30-degree angle of firing to the horizon. This designer foreswore the 45 mm Gun and in its place mounted a 76 mm Gun in a production KV-1 tank turret on an enormous hull with significantly lengthened chassis components.

Kreslavsky’s proposal
Specifications: (direct from Battlefield.ru’s data sheet)
Length: 9m
Width: 4m
Height: 3.225m
Ground clearance: 0.6m
Combat weight: 92.6 tons
Engine: Diesel M-40 outputting 1200hp
Radio: 10-R series
Crew: 6
Armor:
Hull: 130/125/130
Turret: 135/140/135
Armaments:
1x 107mm Zis-6
3x 7.62mm DT
1x 45mm 20-K (Coaxial)

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Shashmurin’s proposal
Specifications: (estimated size scaled to fit with KV-1’s road wheel)
Length: 8.35m
Width: 3.53m
Height: 3.121m
Ground clearance: 0.5m
Combat weight: ? tons

Engine: Diesel M-40 outputting 1200hp
Radio: 10-R series
Crew: 6-7

Armor:
Hull: 135/100/125
Turret: 60/60/60

Armaments:
1x 107mm Zis-6 (casemate/ hull mounted)
2x 7.62mm DT
1x 76mm L-11 (turret)

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Two designers, P. Mikhailov and G. Turchaninov, in their designs recommended the mounting of the 45 mm Gun casemate fashion, having cut an embrasure for it in the frontal armor plate of the tank's hull, and they placed the 107 mm Cannon in a standard tank turret on the vehicle's hull.

Mikhailov’s proposal
Specifications: (direct from Battlefield.ru’s data sheet)
Length: 9.m
Width: 3.6m
Height: 3.m
Ground clearance: 0.5m
Combat weight: 86 tons

Engine: Diesel M-40 outputting 1200hp
Radio: 10-R series
Crew: 5
Max fuel load: 2800 litres (located next to the engine position and ½ way across the turret ring)

Armor:
Hull: 180/150/130
Turret: 140 (conical)

Armaments:
1x 107mm Zis-6
2x 7.62mm DT
1x 45mm 20-K

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Only engineer N. Tseits rejected the mounting of a second gun. He suggested the mounting of the 107 mm Cannon in a standard tank turret, laying it out in circular form so that the entire basic load of 120 fixed rounds were stowed along the walls of the cylindrical turret. This design stood out for its originality and in the future created fertile soil for employment of an auto-loading mechanism.

Tseits’ proposal
Specifications: (direct from Battlefield.ru’s data sheet)

Length: 8.35m
Width: 4.03m
Height: 3.62m
Ground clearance: 0.55m
Combat weight: 90 tons

Engine: Diesel M-40 outputting 1200hp
Radio: 10-R series
Crew: 7

Armor:
Hull: 130/125/125
Turret: 140 (cylindrical)

Armaments:
1x 107mm Zis-6
2x 7.62mm DT

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In a collective design submitted by three authors (P. Tarapatin, K. Kuzmin, and V. Tarotko), the 107 mm Cannon was positioned in the turret with a limited angle of rotation (130°). The designers V. Pavlov and D. Grigorev reached the same decision, but for the 45mm gun and not the 107 mm Cannon. Outside of the design parameters, some designers recommended the mounting of a flamethrower on the tank.

Tarapantin,Kuzmin&Tarotko’s proposal
Specifications: (direct from Battlefield.ru’s data sheet)

Length: 9.26m
Width: 3.79m
Height: 3.175m
Ground clearance: 0.5m
Combat weight: 88 tons

Engine: Diesel M-40 outputting 1200hp
Radio: 10-R series
Crew: 6

Armor:
Hull: 130/125/125
Turret: 130 (cylindrical casemate)

Armaments:
1x 107mm Zis-6
3x 7.62mm DT
1x 45mm 20-K

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There were also some original suggestions for the armor of the KV-4 tank. For example, K. Buganov and F. Marishkin selected a means of armor plating the tank turret in a form so that its ring was deep in the hull, which excluded jamming with the strike of projectiles and shrapnel, as happened during the tests of the KV-1 tank at Kubinka.
G. Kruchenykh and N. Strukov recommended a tank turret that was rhomboid-shaped with rounded angles, and engineer S. Fedorenko designed a turret with a non-traditional curved form with the mounting of two DT machine-guns and a 45 mm Gun on an original turret mounting, which permitted a rifleman to conduct fire without exposing himself from the hatch.
In their designs these workers frequently resorted to other methods that had not been encountered earlier in tank design. For example, engineer P. Mikhailov developed an original tracked loop for their vehicle.
Five designers placed the engine and transmission in the front portion of the hull, which was an unusual decision for heavy tanks. Engineer N. Tseits suggested the placement of the engine in the stern and the transmission in the bow. L. Pereverzev recommended the pair of drive sprockets in the stern of the vehicle be removed from the hull and fastened to mounts, which gave some economy in the armor protection of the vehicle as a whole but at the same time made this most important component of the vehicle particularly vulnerable.
An analysis of the preserved drawings (about 20 variants of the KV-4 tank design have reached us) attests that many of the designs contain valuable from the design point of view decisions and fully deserve patenting at the inventor level. Work on the KV-4 project was conducted in the troubling prewar days and therefore authorship of the most interesting suggestions remains unconfirmed.

Quoted from www.battlefield.ru
tank sketchup models by me

Edited by Giganaut, Jun 08 2013 - 02:50.


Zepherex #2 Posted May 23 2013 - 16:39

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What I find interesting is how wargamming put all these other guns available for the KV-4 yet it only ever was to mount the 107 ZIS-6. WG has it mount 2 different 122mm guns and the 107mm ZIS-8. Although if the Kv-4 in WOT didn't get the Zis-8 it wouldn't be very fun.

Edited by Zepherex, Jun 07 2013 - 14:21.


Giganaut #3 Posted May 23 2013 - 16:42

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View PostZepherex, on May 23 2013 - 16:39, said:

What I find interesting is how wargamming put all these other guns available for the KV-4 yet it only ever was to mount the 107 ZIS-6. WG has it mount 2 different 122mm guns and the 107mm ZIS-8. Wtf wargamming that's not historically accurate

historical accuracy is one thing, some tanks had a few disadvantages to it's successors, so WG decides to make the game play more dynamic by making a few changes on the tanks itself for it's armaments for example.

you wouldnt see a tiger I with an 88mm L/71 in real life because of the turret being incompatable. but ingame there is that

Edited by Giganaut, May 23 2013 - 16:46.


Priory_of_Sion #4 Posted May 23 2013 - 16:49

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WG usually does hypothetical upgrades to tanks that were only proposals. So, for example the VK 45.02 ausf. B would IRL have only 80 mm of frontal armor and an 88 L/71 gun. Now if it did see production or further development it would be logical to conclude that the armor would be increased and more guns would be proposed for a more further developed VK 45.02 ausf. B. Same concept applies to many vehicles from every nation, including the KV-4.

Now taking that into consideration, Mikhailov’s KV-4 look like it can mount a larger weapon such as the 130 mm while possibly adding more armor so it would be on par with the Maus.

Edited by Priory_of_Sion, May 23 2013 - 16:53.


icoleman #5 Posted May 23 2013 - 16:56

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Posted Image



-- Design based off the Pz.V Panther?

lostwingman #6 Posted May 23 2013 - 16:57

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Finally, a thread to visually sort all the different KV-4 projects.
+1'd

Priory_of_Sion #7 Posted May 23 2013 - 17:02

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View Posticoleman, on May 23 2013 - 16:56, said:

-- Design based off the Pz.V Panther?
All the KV-4s are Pre-Barbarossa. The Panther is a post-Barbarossa design.

icoleman #8 Posted May 23 2013 - 17:03

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View PostPriory_of_Sion, on May 23 2013 - 17:02, said:

All the KV-4s are Pre-Barbarossa. The Panther is a post-Barbarossa design.
I see, funny how close the turrets resemble each-other, yet had no ties whatsoever.

lostwingman #9 Posted May 23 2013 - 17:15

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View Posticoleman, on May 23 2013 - 17:03, said:

I see, funny how close the turrets resemble each-other, yet had no ties whatsoever.
It's more of a situation of form follows function.
The Panther turret is modeled off the Pz IV/III style turret.
Look at the T-34 from above as well.
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Just a good simple shape for a turret.

SULOMON #10 Posted May 23 2013 - 17:20

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Very interesting. They should make another heavy line made up of KV-4 tanks.

icoleman #11 Posted May 23 2013 - 17:29

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View PostSULOMON, on May 23 2013 - 17:20, said:

Very interesting. They should make another heavy line made up of KV-4 tanks.
Eh, I could see WG making a premium or two off the Kvs, like how the old pz.4 is now a premium.

EnsignExpendable #12 Posted May 23 2013 - 17:31

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You can't make a tier 10 KV-4, unless you bring back that 130 mm howitzer 50 kph version it was going to be introduced as. I'd play that.

Xo39uH #13 Posted May 23 2013 - 17:34

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View PostZepherex, on May 23 2013 - 16:39, said:

.. Wtf wargamming that's not historically accurate

As SerB keeps on saying, for realism go to voenkomat ("военкомат" originally in Russian) - military recruitment office.

Xlucine #14 Posted May 23 2013 - 17:45

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Mikhailov's looks like the illegitimate child of a KV and the tortoise

View PostEnsignExpendable, on May 23 2013 - 17:31, said:

You can't make a tier 10 KV-4, unless you bring back that 130 mm howitzer 50 kph version it was going to be introduced as. I'd play that.

Mikhailov's looks like it should at least fit the M62 in the turret, so perhaps a KV-4 ekranami?

Dominatus #15 Posted May 23 2013 - 22:38

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Some of these designs look like whoever drew them up was seriously high on something.

Giganaut #16 Posted May 24 2013 - 00:06

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View PostDominatus, on May 23 2013 - 22:38, said:

Some of these designs look like whoever drew them up was seriously high on something.

especially the Fedorenko

Giganaut #17 Posted May 24 2013 - 02:56

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here some size comparison on the Mikhailov and the Maus (up to scale with data given from battlefield.ru for the Mikhailov and wikipedia for the maus)

Posted Image

EnsignExpendable #18 Posted May 24 2013 - 02:58

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Don't tell me that those are pistol ports you have on your Maus model.

Giganaut #19 Posted May 24 2013 - 03:02

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View PostEnsignExpendable, on May 24 2013 - 02:58, said:

Don't tell me that those are pistol ports you have on your Maus model.

not entirely sure on that because it was on the plans. i thought those are shell loading and spent exit ports

EnsignExpendable #20 Posted May 24 2013 - 03:04

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Then why would you need three of them?




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