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Panzer 3 and VK 20.01 (D) under gunned?


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cashdash #21 Posted Jun 28 2013 - 18:24

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View PostDaigensui, on Jun 28 2013 - 17:21, said:

Because you're blind enough to miss the fact that Pz III has the armor of a heavy and the mobility of a light scout.

I will say I've never had a problem with penetrating it. Its armor is far from being that of a heavy. And it is far from out maneuvering a tier 4 light.

SoukouDragon #22 Posted Jun 29 2013 - 20:44

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M3 Lee: No turret

T28: Big and soft

Matilda: Very slow

Chi He: both slower and less armored than pzIII   ...oh wait

All tanks have advantages and disadvantages.

amaROenuZ #23 Posted Jun 29 2013 - 22:47

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2001D could probably use a buff to be honest. It felt like a nerfed PzIII to me.

TheRealJulia #24 Posted Jun 29 2013 - 23:33

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View Postcashdash, on Jun 27 2013 - 22:38, said:

So while cruising the wiki i found this.

Best gun on Pz III and VK 20.01 (D)
5 cm KwK 39 L/60, 93, 70/70/90 HP, 67/130/25 mm,  24 r/m, 0.4 m, 2.3 s,  -6°/+20°,

Best gun on M3 Lee
75 mm Gun M3L/37, 50, 110/110/175 HP, 92/127/38 mm,  20 r/m, 0.41 m, 2.1 s,  -9°/+20°,

Best gun on T-28
57 mm ZiS-4, 78, 85/85/95 HP, 112/189/29 mm,  22.22 r/m, 0.34 m, 2.3 s,  -6°/+25°,

Best gun on Matilda
QF 2-pdr Mk. X-B, 92, 55/55 HP, 121/145 mm,  28.57 r/m, 0.36 m, 1.9 s,  -10°/+20°,

What we can see from these stats(aside form the M3 Lee not carrying nearly enough ammo for its rate of fire.)is that the Tier 4 German Medium tanks have a terrible gun compared to the other nations tier 4s. I don't want to sound like a Panzerphile but this seems suspiciousstrange. I propose the KwK 39 L/60 be given a buff to Penetration and Damage to bring it more in line with the other tier 4 mediums.

Thing is, you have to consider the tanks as a whole.

1. M3 Lee:
The chassis blows. Meh armour, no turret, midling speed, tall frame. It's basically more TD than Medium, except in 2 areas, one positive, one negative.
The positive? It has the HP of a Medium (so, much higher than a real TD). The Negative? It has the camouflage values of a Medium (so, much lower than a real TD).
The gun has extremely good DPM and good pen to compensate for the fact that the Lee is basically a TD... a TD that can't hide.

2. T28:
It's unarmoured and huge. On the other hand, it's very fast and the gun is simply monstrous for the tier.
Tbh, the T28 is very underestimated, in capable hands it's quite a devastating tank. In the hands of someone that rushes in and then proudly displays its huge huge paper sides, not so much.

3. Matilda:
It's slow as hell and you're only looking at 2 values on that gun: pen and accuracy. 121 pen at T4 is impressive, but overkill most of the time... and when you consider that gun has the lowest alpha & DPM of all, it's not as powerful as you might think.


The PzIII is quite fast (albeit less so than the T-28), it's pretty well-armoured for the tier, it spins on a dime and it's relatively small. So yes, it gets a weaker gun.


The VK2001D, I don't understand. It just seems strictly inferior to the PzIII.

roadkill789 #25 Posted Jul 12 2013 - 19:46

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View Postcashdash, on Jun 27 2013 - 22:38, said:

So while cruising the wiki i found this.

Best gun on Pz III and VK 20.01 (D)
5 cm KwK 39 L/60, 93, 70/70/90 HP, 67/130/25 mm,  24 r/m, 0.4 m, 2.3 s,  -6°/+20°,

Best gun on M3 Lee
75 mm Gun M3L/37, 50, 110/110/175 HP, 92/127/38 mm,  20 r/m, 0.41 m, 2.1 s,  -9°/+20°,

Best gun on T-28
57 mm ZiS-4, 78, 85/85/95 HP, 112/189/29 mm,  22.22 r/m, 0.34 m, 2.3 s,  -6°/+25°,

Best gun on Matilda
QF 2-pdr Mk. X-B, 92, 55/55 HP, 121/145 mm,  28.57 r/m, 0.36 m, 1.9 s,  -10°/+20°,

What we can see from these stats(aside form the M3 Lee not carrying nearly enough ammo for its rate of fire.)is that the Tier 4 German Medium tanks have a terrible gun compared to the other nations tier 4s. I don't want to sound like a Panzerphile but this seems suspiciousstrange. I propose the KwK 39 L/60 be given a buff to Penetration and Damage to bring it more in line with the other tier 4 mediums.

the 5cm on the pz. III has a very high muzzle velocity, causing it to match the gun on the M3 lee. the Matilda's gun is weaker than the 5cm. you can also get a 75mm on the pz. III.

roadkill789 #26 Posted Jul 12 2013 - 19:48

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View Postcashdash, on Jun 28 2013 - 16:44, said:

:amazed:

Skill does not change the fact that this gun is well below the standards of a tier 4 tank. It needs at least 75 mm of pen to bring it in line with tier 4 scouts. 67 mm(allowing for +/- 5 mm of pen)will hardly pen most tier 5s. I am not saying that it needs to have a gun like the M3 Lee. All i am saying is that its gun is abhorred for a tier 4.


you. are. wrong.

roadkill789 #27 Posted Jul 12 2013 - 22:28

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View Postcashdash, on Jun 28 2013 - 18:24, said:

I will say I've never had a problem with penetrating it. Its armor is far from being that of a heavy. And it is far from out maneuvering a tier 4 light.

what were you shooting it with? it's armor is more akin to a medium, and it has maneuverability and speed on par with almost all the tier IV lights.( have you played this stock or elite?!? with the top engine, it is fast and quite maneuverable.) I have had ricochets with a 76mm versus the pz. III's front armor.

M477145_N1l550n #28 Posted Jul 12 2013 - 22:30

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Idea: Remove the 50mm L/60 from the PanzerJager 1, replace with 50mm L/42. Move 50mm L/60 to Tier 4, increasing average AP penetration to anywhere between 75mm to 80mm.




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