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Tiger II Impressions


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Sarpadeon #41 Posted Jan 18 2011 - 19:40

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pourche turret gets penned on the actual turret face by 75L70s, so no it is an upgrade, just not as much of an upgrade as it should be.

TracerM17 #42 Posted Jan 18 2011 - 21:56

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I love this tank. This is the first German tank that was great stock (or at least, good enough). The long 88 is a little weak, but definately not one that dings every other shot like some stock turrets do. I have everything except the last gun now. The upgraded turret is awesome. In one match I got down to 24 HP and had 6 shots bounce off me, which allowed me to kill one more tank and damage another before they finally got a shot to penetrate.

I just recently got the short 105 and I like it. It reminds me of the short 88, but does a lot more damage and has the penetration of the long 88. I can't wait for the long 105. I don't think the cost of shells will be an issue.

I got the gun rammer and ventalation, not sure what I'm going to put on it last. But I'm very excited about this tank. Wish I never bothered with the Panther tree and just focused on the Tiger II.

EDIT:
I just now read through this entire thread. Seems like I'm driving a different tank? Perhaps with enough games under my belt I will be as angry about this tank as some people are. Even in the Tiger or Panther (and the long 88) I was never worried about penetrating an IS3 from the front (IS4 and VK45 are different stories). I just aim at the joint between the turret and the hull and it seems to penetrate every time. I actually hate seeing American heavies more than Russian ones.

Yes, I know the Tigers are very squishy, but I think I've just come to deal with it since all German tanks are the same. I have never driven a Russian heavy so maybe thats why I like this tank. It's definately an upgrade from the Tiger I.

CommissarRykov #43 Posted Jan 18 2011 - 23:30

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Having finally got my long 105 I honestly love this tank more then I thought possible. Less Module Damage then the Tiger I and the thing is just a beast. :Smile-playing:

TheHasegawaEffect #44 Posted Jan 19 2011 - 19:18

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http://dl.dropbox.co...e110120_003.jpg

Disagree with a few things.

Armor:
It's all about positioning and mind games, I am the king of corner battles since there is a way to position the KT in such a way that you expose a bit of front armor that is impossible to penetrate even with a Jagdtiger.

Speed/Performance:
The KT might be not have an impressive top speed, but it is incredibly agile considering it's tier. Pivot turning and good acceleration works wonders for fights or even screwing artillery aim.

Upgrades:
I went for Optics, Rammer and Ventilation.
Optics - KT has one of the longest vision ranges in the game as is, bumping it up to the 500m cap has it's benefits.
Rammer - No brainer.
Ventilation - Overall boost to all aspects of your tank's performance.
No Vertical Stabilizer - The KT isn't fast enough to warrant using one. Stopping to fire is always better than firing on the move anyway since depending on how quick you are, not even arty can draw a bead on you in time.
No Spall Liner - I tend to make artillery work their asses off to earn a hit on me, so it's not needed.

Playstyle:
Top tank - Announce where I am going, and lead the front. Never wander too far ahead of your group. High priority on reinforcing/defending the weakest flank, even if alone. I have the highest health among all Tier 8s, use it to draw fire so allies can act (assuming they will act).
Not top tank - Escort a higher tier if it hasn't got 2-3 escorts already. High priority on reinforcing/defending the weakest flank, even if alone, but with more emphasis on having escape/fallback routes and remaining closer to base/allies.

You are a good Heavy scout. 500m vision range is nothing to sneeze at. Michael Wittmann ran scouting missions in a Tiger, why can't I do so in a Tiger 2?

Be an Attention Whore. Demand attention from the enemy team. They don't have to shoot you every time, all you have to do is to force them to KNOW you are nearby and that they have to consider that you are there when they want to do something. You can actually be a threat just by sitting behind a building from an enemy IS-4.

Push forward. If there are enough team mates near you, and you're confident that you can push forward without being mauled, do so. Communicate with your team mates. You will learn through experience when there might be a Jagdtiger waiting for you, and when there is only a SU-100.

Short range combat. The Tiger 2 is excellent at short ranged combat. As long as all sides land penetrating shots, a King Tiger will maul it's counterparts. Taking it up even higher, you can eventually force corner fights to your advantage by giving an IS-3 a chance to only fire 2 shots from his 122 when you can fire 4 and have a 5th shot loading.

Situational awareness. Know the terrain. Figure out your escape/advancing paths. Learn the tank icons and figure out what tank is going which direction when you get a glimpse of them in the few seconds you see them. Knowing an IS-4 is headed left instead of right, can be the difference between taking a hit or deflecting it and/or shooting back.

Communication. Communication is key to playing all Heavy Tanks. Talk to your team mates. They're not bots. If you're going to die, tell your team mates to focus on the enemy near you and drag the enemies out into the open. Tell arty to get ready to fire at targets hiding behind destructable objects, and then fire a single HE round to blow it up. Use your imagination.



The Tiger 2 is really a great front line tank, even if it isn't the top dog in a round.

JeanneAlter #45 Posted Jan 19 2011 - 19:21

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The KT is a great tank and it shouldn't be attacking T9 heavies. What's wrong with y'all. :P

TheHasegawaEffect #46 Posted Jan 19 2011 - 19:27

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I take on a lot of Tier 9 heavies.

On my own terms. Usually if I'm fighting a T9 heavy, it involves me either:
a) shooting it in the back
B) dragging it out into the open so that my team mates are shooting it
c) outplaying it (actually counting how many seconds for reload, forcing it to shoot me at weird angles, corner trolling, etc.)

Bowdrie #47 Posted Jan 23 2011 - 07:05

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I enjoy this tank it is very effective in all that it does over all one of my favorite tanks

Steeps5 #48 Posted Jan 23 2011 - 07:17

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What bugs me is that their isn't a pixel different between the 88 and the long 105. That's extremely unrealistic.

Tanz #49 Posted Jan 23 2011 - 07:50

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I love my King Tiger  :wub: I've had it for a good while and its great. Even when they had this 5x exp thing..I still stayed with it, not really interested in any of the last two heavies. Played right this tank can own even higher tier tanks  :Smile-playing:

Sputter #50 Posted Jan 23 2011 - 08:34

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To be honest i love the KT in sense that during WWII it was a pure monster but in this game it seems rather weak. Most of the time everything pens my turret easily and of course with that i get massive mod damage. Even my t29 does better i think cause of the nice turret protect which i try to only make that visible but with the KT its a rather easy target due to size and could do with a bit of a buff to the turret or at least so I don't get massive mod damage every hit i take

JeanneAlter #51 Posted Jan 23 2011 - 09:22

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There's a little trick with the KT: when you're reloading, turn your turret away from the enemy just a bit. That way you get much more bouncy angles and a mantlet hit becomes significantly harder.

gsoxx #52 Posted Jan 23 2011 - 10:23

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Since there seems to be no general Tiger II topic and I don't want to open a new one I put it in here + I can't post in the Developers section yet. :P

The description of the KT says it was produced between January and March 1945. But the production started in December 1943 and the first combat use was in 1944.

robot #53 Posted Jan 23 2011 - 10:46

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View PostSteeps5, on Jan 23 2011 - 07:17, said:

What bugs me is that their isn't a pixel different between the 88 and the long 105. That's extremely unrealistic.

And I hope they keep it that way for the new owners of the KT who haven't unlocked the long 105 yet. 88 looking the same as the long 105 has it's advantages.

It's all about mind games. Do I rush that KT round the corner? If he has the long 105 he can kill me in my weakened state, but if it's just the 88 I can take him. Hmmm... do I feel lucky today?

Alter #54 Posted Jan 23 2011 - 10:57

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I play now primarily with Tiger 1 and i have to say i am not worried a bit about facing a Tiger 2 shot one yesterday on "The cliff", just abused his manlet/weak turret front and he died.

IS3, T32....thats another story.

Vahal #55 Posted Jan 23 2011 - 20:13

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Afoxi, I really don't know what sort of King Tiger you drive but it's definitivly NOT the WoT KT. :lol:

Quote

Armor:
It's all about positioning and mind games, I am the king of corner battles since there is a way to position the KT in such a way that you expose a bit of front armor that is impossible to penetrate even with a Jagdtiger.

Are you saying that King Tiger can easily resist against the 128L61? C'mon! Except some random bounces (german guns with bouncinium shells)The KT can't deal with T5/T6 guns! How could it deal with one of the most powerful guns in game? The only decent part of the KT is the upper front hull and 122 D-25T can ripp it quite easily. you are the king of corner? Who care corner if u cant pikaboo cause side are papermade and turret wet paper. 80mm thickness with NO slope (due to normalization = -10° slope.) u can be nailed by a M7 med who will kick your soft ass before u start to turn your slow turret.

Speed/Performance:
The KT might be not have an impressive top speed, but it is incredibly agile considering it's tier. Pivot turning and good acceleration works wonders for fights or even screwing artillery aim.

The KT is NOT incredibly agile, its only asset is pivot. acceleration isn't impressive, top speed is... bad to stay polite, and you bleed speed dramaticly if you try to turn while rolling. U will NOT dodge arty shell, not enough to avoid damages, perhaps only direct shot (but with arty accracy it's just matter of luck not to mobility)


Upgrades:
I went for Optics, Rammer and Ventilation.
Optics - KT has one of the longest vision ranges in the game as is, bumping it up to the 500m cap has it's benefits.
Rammer - No brainer.
Ventilation - Overall boost to all aspects of your tank's performance.
No Vertical Stabilizer - The KT isn't fast enough to warrant using one. Stopping to fire is always better than firing on the move anyway since depending on how quick you are, not even arty can draw a bead on you in time.
No Spall Liner - I tend to make artillery work their asses off to earn a hit on me, so it's not needed.

Optic can be good, BUT, with the camo mechanic system, you will be able to see at very long range on rare occasions. The 420m basis is enough for 95% of the time. I had one, and I removed it.
Ventilation is good... for med. Not for a barely mobile brick. 6% skill will not provide 6% improvement in mobility and even it would give twice than that, that would stay horrible. So u will boost reloading speed, aiming speed, accuracy, view range by a few. a tiny, tiny percentage.
Rammer, well, agree on that, 10% reloading bonus is good especially with slow ROF guns. even u don't fire after each reload as an automatic cannon, this upgrade is a good one.
Spall Liner: in fact, the spall liner is not a good upgrade against arty, it's a good one against guns fitted with HE shells. +15% armor bonus on front hull is good, idem on front turret. Of course, there the only to area providing a valuable bonus but the other parts don't need HE shells, even a 50L60 fitted on Leopard can pierce a King Tiger...
Vertical stabilizer: I disagree TOTALLY with you. Following a mobile target with your gun down the accuracy, if you have the stabilizer, your reticle stays small and u can aim accuratly. U can shoot on the move with a good chance to hitting target at close/med range. Vertical Stabilizer is ALWAYS usefull, even for static tank, cause your targets could be a small scout or a crazy Dev54 and if you want to keep your reticle on it while it's running you will have to turn your turret AND your hull and with stabilizer reticle is not messed up.



Playstyle:
Top tank - Announce where I am going, and lead the front. Never wander too far ahead of your group. High priority on reinforcing/defending the weakest flank, even if alone. I have the highest health among all Tier 8s, use it to draw fire so allies can act (assuming they will act).
Not top tank - Escort a higher tier if it hasn't got 2-3 escorts already. High priority on reinforcing/defending the weakest flank, even if alone, but with more emphasis on having escape/fallback routes and remaining closer to base/allies.

HP is NOT an issue. If your gun is out at first shot and your gunner die at the second you will have shotgun accuracy. cold be worse, your ammo rack can be destroy at the frist front shot trough the paper turret and you and your highest health you will be good for "quit battle" . And no that DOESN'T happen at every tanks, KT is a fake heavy with shitty armor. Armor with high slope is the master key of survive.
Next, defending a flank alone with KT = miserable death in most cases. Paper armor+slow ROF+bad mobility = pwned. 2 PzIV with 75L70 are enough. U can delay an ennemy strike but if u haven't a qick support u will be destroyed faster than u can write "gun is destroy".

KT is not a line breaker tank, it's a support tank, nothing more than a turreted heavy TD and have same weakness and assets. It's a good tank until someone spot u. after being spotted, it's time to retreat or cry, all tanks in the battle can badly damage you except tanks with 45mm or lower caliber and there are not very many of those tiny calibers.


You are a good Heavy scout. 500m vision range is nothing to sneeze at. Michael Wittmann ran scouting missions in a Tiger, why can't I do so in a Tiger 2?

Micheal wittmann drove REAL tanks, not those poor shitty junks with limited LOS and didn't have to deal with romulan cloak aka the flawed spotting system. He could fire at 2000m with more than 90% chance of hit and could destroy a tank with a single shell who didn't bounce so stupidly. WoT is NOT, really NOT representative of what were Tigers and King Tigers. If you go scout with your KT and it's freaking awfull visibility, remember with a 500m view range in open you can see a KT at 485m... so u will be EVER detected before seeing anything. Sometime u can't see a tank hidden behind its own gun in the middle of a street at 30m so don't rely on long range spotting missions, it's one of the fastest manner to die miserably.


Be an Attention Whore. Demand attention from the enemy team. They don't have to shoot you every time, all you have to do is to force them to KNOW you are nearby and that they have to consider that you are there when they want to do something. You can actually be a threat just by sitting behind a building from an enemy IS-4.

It's avaliable for ALL tanks in the game, not only KT, in fact the KT is not a terrifying tank due to its so numerous critcal flaws. I will hesitate more if there are some IS nasty bastard than this poor sad kitty "ambushed" behind a corner cause I know that after its first shot, it will be dead meat.

Push forward. If there are enough team mates near you, and you're confident that you can push forward without being mauled, do so. Communicate with your team mates. You will learn through experience when there might be a Jagdtiger waiting for you, and when there is only a SU-100.

avaliable for ALL tanks in the game, not only KT, and u have better to NOT lead the charge, it's a good way to eat a shell in the mantlet or worse, being tracked and gibbed. With romulan tanks hidden, it's a bad idea to show your soft turret.


Short range combat. The Tiger 2 is excellent at short ranged combat. As long as all sides land penetrating shots, a King Tiger will maul it's counterparts. Taking it up even higher, you can eventually force corner fights to your advantage by giving an IS-3 a chance to only fire 2 shots from his 122 when you can fire 4 and have a 5th shot loading.

Totally craps. U have to avoid short range combat at ALL COST! Short range = easy to target = 100% mantlet or side armor shots = tons of criticals hits = sad and useless kitty. Dude, u drive one of fragilest tank in the game, not an IS3 or 4! do want I quote every weakspot on King Tiger and compare to IS3?
Next, fireng 5 times while the IS3 fires only 2? What gun are u using? 75 conical?  :lol:  If you stay on 88L71 u have good chances to bounce in pikaboo cause u haven't time to aim specificly, u aim the tank, not the left side of the second driver hatch in the third section of the hull front. U move forward, aim quickly the tank, hope firing the hull and reverse as fast as possible. and... bounce. If u use the 105L68, u still bounce but less and u will NOT fire twice time faster than 122 D-25T or BL-9. U will have barely better ROF and less damages who is significant in those combats.


Situational awareness. Know the terrain. Figure out your escape/advancing paths. Learn the tank icons and figure out what tank is going which direction when you get a glimpse of them in the few seconds you see them. Knowing an IS-4 is headed left instead of right, can be the difference between taking a hit or deflecting it and/or shooting back.

I agree with taht, totally, but... not specific to KT, that is called skill and fitted on some players not on some tanks  :)


Communication. Communication is key to playing all Heavy Tanks. Talk to your team mates. They're not bots. If you're going to die, tell your team mates to focus on the enemy near you and drag the enemies out into the open. Tell arty to get ready to fire at targets hiding behind destructable objects, and then fire a single HE round to blow it up. Use your imagination.

Same than above. Agree and availiable with all tanks. And the main problem is the teamplay, and brain.
for example, destroy the houses on Sand river when tanks are behind them. I see too often, ppl waiting until the ennemy tank move... In that case, I load HE (or not) and fire on the cover to destroy it and reveal the ennemy tank. I see too often arty players too busy at easy frags to provide effective support fire or a decent counterbattery fire. Tealply is one of master keys of success, perhaps THE one.

even if I disagree totally on teh Kat, i'm happy to see player talking about tactics and smart teamplay. :Smile_honoring:



View PostTroika, on Jan 23 2011 - 09:22, said:

There's a little trick with the KT: when you're reloading, turn your turret away from the enemy just a bit. That way you get much more bouncy angles and a mantlet hit becomes significantly harder.

If you do that you will expose your side armor with less slope and reducing effective armor near the real 80mm. Less slope = less LOS armor = less bounce = bad idea.
It's good to do that with the VK45 and its 160mm thick side armor plates who are able to deflect most of med shells and most of heavies shells. I use that when I facehug IS4 and tempt it with my mantlet , laughing when its S70 shell bounce (or crying when it doesn't), but KT has to thin side armor. Check the thread about the Henshel turret test, even perfect front shot on side armor can penetrate it with most of the guns in game.

The only good trick to get your KT safe, is to stay hidden behind your teammates and provide an accurate and deadly support. :Smile-playing:

TheHasegawaEffect #56 Posted Feb 14 2011 - 13:06

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My counterpoints.

Posted Image

Few things. In corner battles you can abuse your sloped 150mm, and jut it out at an angle where the real effective armor your slope presents is not the default 230mm, but 500mm or more. People who don't understand penetration mechanics will not realise this, shoot, and bounce. Yes, you can bounce Object 704 shells quite nicely if done right.

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KT is agile. It responds better to controls a lot better than most other tanks. (T29 comes to mind)

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Reaching the 500m grants you enhanced vision of anything under the 500m radius, this has been confirmed. It means I can see through a few more bushes than the other guy.

The difference between winning and losing a fight can be due to minor percentages gained from modules like ventilation, even if it's as small as 1%. Never underestimate the bigger picture in favor of a huge boost to one stat.

Vertical stabilizer isn't needed on something like the KT if you lead your shots and wait for the enemy to enter the crosshairs. You have Vertical Stabilizer and 9% less accuracy than I do. I find this interesting.

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I have 59% win ratio in the KT at 500 games. I think what I do generally works.

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Understand how spotting works, in addition to the bonus given when you reach 500m vision range, then reread your post.

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Yeah well, you're doing something wrong if you tried what I did and failed.

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Again.

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Tiger 2 Mauls an IS-3 at short range. If you don't understand the concept of abusing corners and knowing that an IS-3 has about 1-2 seconds slower reload time than you do to realise how you can force the IS-3 to hold his shots and waste his DPS, you might want to explore more tactics.

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Situational awareness is important, but moreso to a german heavy because of how long it takes for you to be able to respond.

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leonidesalinas #57 Posted Feb 14 2011 - 18:54

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i agree with Afoxi here... the King Tiger is a helluva good tank. at 71 games, i am maintaining an 81% hit ratio. that's 8 out of 10 shots that hit. half of those are 400+ meter shots.


people just don't believe me when i say the King Tiger is better than the IS3... me and Afoxi proves it's capable of beating the IS3 regularly. yes, the mantlet is a weakpoint. but does the gun go down every time? nope. i have had unlucky streaks where an IS3 hit me twice, and both of his shots took out my gun and ammo, but those are rare, if not uncommon.


the only two gripes i have, is the low top speed and the mantlet. other than that, this tank is fine.

__SNIPER__74 #58 Posted Feb 14 2011 - 21:34

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Tiger II is the tank I bought after soft wipe and still one of my best, statistically speaking . What's more with the 88 L/71 you can run it very profitably.

jerichotrumpet #59 Posted Feb 16 2011 - 15:52

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The 88mm is too weak for this tank and the tier it is often set against in battle. In the jagdpanther it is awesome and I have no worries taking on and sniping higher tier tanks. But with the tiger II you may get one or two shots away before is7, maus, object and jadgtiger blow you away.

__SNIPER__74 #60 Posted Feb 16 2011 - 23:21

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View Postjerichotrumpet, on Feb 16 2011 - 15:52, said:

The 88mm is too weak for this tank and the tier it is often set against in battle. In the jagdpanther it is awesome and I have no worries taking on and sniping higher tier tanks. But with the tiger II you may get one or two shots away before is7, maus, object and jadgtiger blow you away.

Not to nit pick, but none of the guns on the Maus, IS-7, or JgPz VI can take out a Tiger B in the time it takes to fire two shots with the L/71. The JgPz VI has the best gun and it takes 3 penetrating hits to take out a Tiger B - assuming a 'first shot free' situation it would take the Jtiger 21 seconds to fire off two more rounds - assuming they both fired at the same time the Tiger B would get a total of 4 shots off, easily penetrating the lower hull - now this would take the JTiger down to about 50% health - but considering he is a tier higher than you that's not too bad.

Consider that if you are facing tier IX and X, then you're team also has tier IX and X, ergo you shouldn't be facing the enemies heaviest tanks alone anyway - and I was talking about profitability over anything else, the 8,8cm is undoubtedly much more efficient in a credit/damage ratio. The Soviet tanks OTOH need to use 1,000c + rounds to use a gun that pens 200mm,




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