Jump to content


A full Hungarian tree... stretch harder™

hungarian tree full

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
54 replies to this topic

Poll: A full Hungarian tree... stretch harder™ (33 members have cast votes)

Do you want to see Hungarian tanks in WoT?

  1. Yes, as their own tree (14 votes [42.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.42%

  2. Yes, in the Euro tree (10 votes [30.30%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.30%

  3. No, we have better things to do ATM (2 votes [6.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.06%

  4. Who cares? (1 vote [3.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.03%

  5. Bacon (6 votes [18.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.18%

Which would you rather see for tiers 8, 9, and 10?

  1. Soviet medium clones (11 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  2. Fantesy Tas tanks (6 votes [18.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.18%

  3. Other(please say which) (5 votes [15.15%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.15%

  4. Nothing, just have the line stop at tier 7. (11 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

Vote Hide poll

_Panzer9_ #1 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 00:01

    Major

  • Players
  • 23685 battles
  • 2,388
  • [-G-] -G-
  • Member since:
    06-16-2012
A Full Hungarian Tech Tree
I have always defended the fact that the Hungarians have enough of their own tanks for a full tech tree. Now, I'm going to try to bring that to life in this post, in which I hope I get reach tier 10.
Tier 1:
Straussler V-4
Spoiler                     
Tier 2:
38M Toldi I:
Spoiler                     
40M Nimrod:
Spoiler                     
37mm PaK 36 auf  T-20(premium):
Spoiler                     
Tier 3:
42M Toldi II&IIa
Spoiler                     
Toldi II AT "Marder":
Spoiler                     
Tier 4:
Turan SPG:
Spoiler                     
Nimrod 80mm:
Spoiler                     
43M Toldi III:
Spoiler                     
I'll be constantly adding to this, to (hopefully) get it to tier 10. I could do this 2 ways, either by Stretching out the Tas(a lot), or using Soviet armor used by the Hungarians postwar. In either case, I think I can (just) manage it. Any suggestions/feedback on what I've done so far is welcome. The whole OP is to big for one post, I'll post the others right after.

Edited by Panzer9Supertiger, Aug 01 2013 - 03:00.


Slakrrrrrr #2 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 00:04

    Major

  • Players
  • 22233 battles
  • 6,435
  • Member since:
    07-16-2011
I would put the Turan II at tier 5 and the Turan III at tier 6, followed by the TAS 44M at tier 7.

Edit: There's also the Zrinyi I and II.

Edited by Slakrrrrrr, Jul 29 2013 - 00:06.


_Panzer9_ #3 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 00:08

    Major

  • Players
  • 23685 battles
  • 2,388
  • [-G-] -G-
  • Member since:
    06-16-2012
Part 2 of the tree. Will post part 3 with tiers 8, 9 and 10 later
40M Turan I&41M Turan II
Spoiler                     
Tier 5:
43M Turan III:
Spoiler                     
43M Zrinyi II&44M Zrinyi I:
Spoiler                     
Tier 6:
44M Tas Prototype:
Spoiler                     
44M Turan IV(premium):
Spoiler                     
44M Zrinyi III
Spoiler                     
Tier 7:
44M Tas:
Spoiler                     
Tas Röhamloveg:
Spoiler                     
Sources:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.

Edited by Panzer9Supertiger, Aug 01 2013 - 00:54.


_Panzer9_ #4 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 00:11

    Major

  • Players
  • 23685 battles
  • 2,388
  • [-G-] -G-
  • Member since:
    06-16-2012

View PostSlakrrrrrr, on Jul 29 2013 - 00:04, said:

I would put the Turan II at tier 5 and the Turan III at tier 6, followed by the TAS 44M at tier 7.

Edit: There's also the Zrinyi I and II.
Turan II has a 75mm that was only *slightly* better then the L/24 in terms of armor penetration. Seems better as the top gun on a tier 4 then a stock gun on a tier 5 IMHO. Though we could have it was the stock gun for the Turan III anyway. And yes, the Tas and Zrinyi are in the second post, the OP was too long to put all of them in.

Slakrrrrrr #5 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 00:15

    Major

  • Players
  • 22233 battles
  • 6,435
  • Member since:
    07-16-2011

View PostPanzer9Supertiger, on Jul 29 2013 - 00:11, said:

Turan II has a 75mm that was only *slightly* better then the L/24 in terms of armor penetration. Seems better as the top gun on a tier 4 then a stock gun on a tier 5 IMHO. Though we could have it was the stock gun for the Turan III anyway. And yes, the Tas and Zrinyi are in the second post, the OP was too long to put all of them in.
The Turan II's turret could probably mount the long 75mm gun on the Turan III, while the Turan III could probably mount the 7.5cm L/70 (just my personal opinion). Great job on this!

OttoVonPrien #6 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 00:15

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 16647 battles
  • 517
  • Member since:
    06-22-2011
i Like the idea

_Panzer9_ #7 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 00:19

    Major

  • Players
  • 23685 battles
  • 2,388
  • [-G-] -G-
  • Member since:
    06-16-2012

View PostSlakrrrrrr, on Jul 29 2013 - 00:15, said:

The Turan II's turret could probably mount the long 75mm gun on the Turan III, while the Turan III could probably mount the 7.5cm L/70 (just my personal opinion). Great job on this!
Thanks. However, the Turan II could never have mounted the 75mm 43M. If it could have, the Hungarians would have never bothered with the Turan III. See that thing on top of the Turan III's turret? That's there purely the balance the weight of the gun. Also, with 95mm of frontal armor and an L/70 a tier 5, the Turan III would be just plain OP.

Edited by Panzer9Supertiger, Jul 29 2013 - 00:21.


Slakrrrrrr #8 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 00:32

    Major

  • Players
  • 22233 battles
  • 6,435
  • Member since:
    07-16-2011

View PostPanzer9Supertiger, on Jul 29 2013 - 00:19, said:

Thanks. However, the Turan II could never have mounted the 75mm 43M. If it could have, the Hungarians would have never bothered with the Turan III. See that thing on top of the Turan III's turret? That's there purely the balance the weight of the gun. Also, with 95mm of frontal armor and an L/70 a tier 5, the Turan III would be just plain OP.
I see. Thanks for the explanation!

a_hippie #9 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 00:35

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 33212 battles
  • 2,098
  • Member since:
    01-04-2011
I want a Nimrod.

_Panzer9_ #10 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 03:50

    Major

  • Players
  • 23685 battles
  • 2,388
  • [-G-] -G-
  • Member since:
    06-16-2012
Fixed pictures in second post, they weren't showing up right before. Hmm, it seems there *might* be something that the Hungarians had that would qualify for tier 10. I'd have to look into it, though.

Edited by Panzer9Supertiger, Jul 29 2013 - 03:51.


Life_In_Black #11 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 04:07

    Major

  • Players
  • 26231 battles
  • 11,490
  • [KGS] KGS
  • Member since:
    10-29-2011

View PostSlakrrrrrr, on Jul 29 2013 - 00:15, said:

The Turan II's turret could probably mount the long 75mm gun on the Turan III, while the Turan III could probably mount the 7.5cm L/70 (just my personal opinion). Great job on this!

That's my thought as well.

View PostPanzer9Supertiger, on Jul 29 2013 - 00:19, said:

Thanks. However, the Turan II could never have mounted the 75mm 43M. If it could have, the Hungarians would have never bothered with the Turan III. See that thing on top of the Turan III's turret? That's there purely the balance the weight of the gun. Also, with 95mm of frontal armor and an L/70 a tier 5, the Turan III would be just plain OP.

That's not an insurmountable problem though. Same deal with the P.26/40.

Here's my take on this, which I posted not too long ago in another thread:

Posted Image

_Panzer9_ #12 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 04:46

    Major

  • Players
  • 23685 battles
  • 2,388
  • [-G-] -G-
  • Member since:
    06-16-2012
There's no way the Turan SPG could go at tier 6. From what arty players tell me, the Wespe's gun is already getting old of that tier 5 French premium arty, you know, the one based off the B1. I admit I've never heard of the T-20 mit 37mm PaK 35/36 I'll have to look into that. But remember, that "JagdToldi" or Toldi AT or whatever you want to call it is basically a Marder II based on the Toldi chassis, tier 4 would be a little much for it. And as much as I would love it to, the Turan II couldn't have mounted them 75mm 43M. If it could have, there would have never been a "Turan III", because the Hungarians needed something that could hurt Russian tanks at range, and the 43M should have been able to hurt even the mighty IS series if it could get a flank shot. If you look at the Turan III prototypes, they have that huge thing in the back of the turret. Why is that? The weight balances the heavier gun, because the tank couldn't have supported it otherwise. That's what happened to the Panzer IIIs, they tried to fit a longer 75mm in the turret, but it wouldn't fit. So the Germans were stuck with either the 50mm L/60 or the 75mm L/24. Now, if the Germans had done something like this, they probably could have fit the longer 75, but why should they, when the StuG III and Panzer IV series already could? The Hungarians didn't have that luxury. And besides, the 75mm 43M would perform much like the German 75mm L/48, so it should be fine for tier 5.
Edit: and it seems that T-20 is German, not Hungarian:
http://ftr-wot.blogs...sault-guns.html
And for anyone wondering, the tier 10 I'm considering for Hungary is the T-55AM, but I'm worried it would be to modern. Any comments, thoughts, ideas? Either that, or I go into Tas fantesy land....

Edited by Panzer9Supertiger, Jul 29 2013 - 04:52.


Trophy_Wench #13 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 05:08

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 7837 battles
  • 330
  • Member since:
    06-14-2011
Honestly, neither option is palatable to me. Considering everything that the Peoples Republic of Hungary was given were Soviet hand-me-downs and the state lost the ability to produce heavy arms during this time, I wouldn't be interested in seeing copypasta Soviet tanks at the high end, just to reach tier 10. Alternatively, fantasy tanks would just make the good work you've done so far lose some credibility IMO, so I wouldn't be interested in that either. But up to tier 7, DO WANT.  :great:

Life_In_Black #14 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 05:12

    Major

  • Players
  • 26231 battles
  • 11,490
  • [KGS] KGS
  • Member since:
    10-29-2011

View PostPanzer9Supertiger, on Jul 29 2013 - 04:46, said:

There's no way the Turan SPG could go at tier 6. From what arty players tell me, the Wespe's gun is already getting old of that tier 5 French premium arty, you know, the one based off the B1. I admit I've never heard of the T-20 mit 37mm PaK 35/36 I'll have to look into that. But remember, that "JagdToldi" or Toldi AT or whatever you want to call it is basically a Marder II based on the Toldi chassis, tier 4 would be a little much for it. And as much as I would love it to, the Turan II couldn't have mounted them 75mm 43M. If it could have, there would have never been a "Turan III", because the Hungarians needed something that could hurt Russian tanks at range, and the 43M should have been able to hurt even the mighty IS series if it could get a flank shot. If you look at the Turan III prototypes, they have that huge thing in the back of the turret. Why is that? The weight balances the heavier gun, because the tank couldn't have supported it otherwise. That's what happened to the Panzer IIIs, they tried to fit a longer 75mm in the turret, but it wouldn't fit. So the Germans were stuck with either the 50mm L/60 or the 75mm L/24. Now, if the Germans had done something like this, they probably could have fit the longer 75, but why should they, when the StuG III and Panzer IV series already could? The Hungarians didn't have that luxury. And besides, the 75mm 43M would perform much like the German 75mm L/48, so it should be fine for tier 5.
Edit: and it seems that T-20 is German, not Hungarian:
http://ftr-wot.blogs...sault-guns.html
And for anyone wondering, the tier 10 I'm considering for Hungary is the T-55AM, but I'm worried it would be to modern. Any comments, thoughts, ideas? Either that, or I go into Tas fantesy land....

I know the T-20 is German, but Hungary operated both the PaK 35/36 37mm cannon, as well as captured T-20 traktors. So while it's a stretch, it's not much of one and I needed a Tier 2 Hungarian TD. Given the fact that the Nimrod has a turret and the 40mm Bofors was a pretty powerful gun, I figured it would be more balanced at Tier 3. With the Toldi "Marder", I have it being at Tier 4, as the German Marder III is supposed to be at Tier 4 as well. As for the guns with the Turans, there are tanks in the game that currently mount guns they couldn't operate in real life and wouldn't be able to fit. The L/70 on the StuG comes to mind. So like I said, your selling the tanks short.The Turan SPG I placed at that Tier because I A, didn't know anything about it other than it was an SPG, and B, at the time I made the mini trees for various European nations, I had originally made a single arty line for all of them. Consider it a holdout from that original tree.

_Panzer9_ #15 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 13:17

    Major

  • Players
  • 23685 battles
  • 2,388
  • [-G-] -G-
  • Member since:
    06-16-2012

View PostTrophy_Wench, on Jul 29 2013 - 05:08, said:

Honestly, neither option is palatable to me. Considering everything that the Peoples Republic of Hungary was given were Soviet hand-me-downs and the state lost the ability to produce heavy arms during this time, I wouldn't be interested in seeing copypasta Soviet tanks at the high end, just to reach tier 10. Alternatively, fantasy tanks would just make the good work you've done so far lose some credibility IMO, so I wouldn't be interested in that either. But up to tier 7, DO WANT.  :great:
From a personal standpoint, I agree with you. But WG has this stupid program where they won't introduce a tree until it has all 10 tiers. Even now you have some stretches (Turan IV, Zrinyi III, Nimrod 80mm, etc). But it seems that the T-55AM WAS used by the Hungarians and isn't too modern, because FTR was considering it for a Czech tier 10. For tier 9, we know for a fact the Hungarians operated normal T-54s and T-55s. Tier 8 is a little difficult. We have a picture of a T-44 the Hungarians captured during the 1956 revolution, but that's a guessing game at best.

View PostLife_In_Black, on Jul 29 2013 - 05:12, said:

I know the T-20 is German, but Hungary operated both the PaK 35/36 37mm cannon, as well as captured T-20 traktors. So while it's a stretch, it's not much of one and I needed a Tier 2 Hungarian TD. Given the fact that the Nimrod has a turret and the 40mm Bofors was a pretty powerful gun, I figured it would be more balanced at Tier 3. With the Toldi "Marder", I have it being at Tier 4, as the German Marder III is supposed to be at Tier 4 as well. As for the guns with the Turans, there are tanks in the game that currently mount guns they couldn't operate in real life and wouldn't be able to fit. The L/70 on the StuG comes to mind. So like I said, your selling the tanks short.The Turan SPG I placed at that Tier because I A, didn't know anything about it other than it was an SPG, and B, at the time I made the mini trees for various European nations, I had originally made a single arty line for all of them. Consider it a holdout from that original tree.
40mm Bofors would probably behave similar to the 30mm MK 103, but with more alpha and less pen. So ridiculous burst damage, but terrible reload. Also nore it would be semi-sluggish, have little camo and complete crap armor. Still, do want. The StuG COULD mount the L/70 irl, and the project was developed into the Jagdpanzer IV. but I see your point. However, I see no need why we would give the Hungarians ahistorical weapons when they don't need them. The Turan II's gun would perform much like the AMX 40's top gun, which would be good on the Turan, because it's not slow as crap. Turan II had 62mm of frontal armor. Crap by tier 5. And 95mm at tier 6 is still inferior to the VK 3601H. And we all know how crappy 105mm would be at tier 7...
This all said, I'm working on the Tier 8s, 9s and 10s as we speak, I hope they'll turn out OK

Edited by Panzer9Supertiger, Jul 29 2013 - 13:35.


_Panzer9_ #16 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 14:26

    Major

  • Players
  • 23685 battles
  • 2,388
  • [-G-] -G-
  • Member since:
    06-16-2012
Tier 8:
45M Tas II:
Spoiler                     
Tier 9:
T-54B:
Spoiler                     
Tier 10:
T-54/55AM:
Spoiler                     


_Panzer9_ #17 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 14:46

    Major

  • Players
  • 23685 battles
  • 2,388
  • [-G-] -G-
  • Member since:
    06-16-2012
Added poll

Vollketten #18 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 16:12

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 32941 battles
  • 8,672
  • [----] ----
  • Member since:
    12-26-2011
+1 to this. More tanks in full trees from more nations the better.
I don't think Hungary has perhaps the depth of tanks and gun/engine options to make a full tech tree in its own right but certainly based on the Chinese tree experience all things are possible.
I would hope that in the forthcoming EU 'tree' there would be a full Hungarian tech line to follow as there are some very interesting tanks there. Good work.

Trophy_Wench #19 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 17:20

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 7837 battles
  • 330
  • Member since:
    06-14-2011

View PostPanzer9Supertiger, on Jul 29 2013 - 13:17, said:

From a personal standpoint, I agree with you. But WG has this stupid program where they won't introduce a tree until it has all 10 tiers. Even now you have some stretches (Turan IV, Zrinyi III, Nimrod 80mm, etc). But it seems that the T-55AM WAS used by the Hungarians and isn't too modern, because FTR was considering it for a Czech tier 10. For tier 9, we know for a fact the Hungarians operated normal T-54s and T-55s. Tier 8 is a little difficult. We have a picture of a T-44 the Hungarians captured during the 1956 revolution, but that's a guess

Im just curious Panzer, what would you think of something like this ?
http://forum.worldof...03#entry5035803

_Panzer9_ #20 Posted Jul 29 2013 - 18:28

    Major

  • Players
  • 23685 battles
  • 2,388
  • [-G-] -G-
  • Member since:
    06-16-2012

View PostTrophy_Wench, on Jul 29 2013 - 17:20, said:

Im just curious Panzer, what would you think of something like this ?
http://forum.worldof...03#entry5035803
Hmm, intreresting. I agree with the mini-trees idea, bu I'm not so found of the idea I'd have to spend gold to unlock them. But my issue with the Euro tree would be that it would have to have "Euro" crews for all of the tanks, which just seems wrong. So yes to the mini-trees, no to the gold

Also, I'm *trying* to come up with a weapons table, and perhaps even a upgrade table like the Japanese tree has, but that will take quite a bit.





Also tagged with hungarian, tree, full

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users