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Black Prince worth the grind?


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Thugtastic #21 Posted Aug 15 2013 - 14:04

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The gun is weak in one area, alpha damage, its ability to shoot a round nearly every 5 secs and with properly played armor/side scraping/face dancing to keep the weak spots hidden is key.  A BP can easily handle nearly any tank in the t7/8 range by using this method. Even knowing where the weak spots are isn't always a key as the armor is so bouncy.  Yes, the T29/IS are easier to play and are better finishers due to their high-alpha guns and I enjoy my IS, but the "in your face" play style of the BP is amazingly fun.  Be advised the grind through the Chruchill 7 isn't going to be any fun, and getting this tank to fully researched mode can also be a challenge.  It is not unfair to say that most BP drivers haven't "figured it out yet" and as such most BP's out there are still learning.  However, a properly played version can absolutely ruin your day.

sharlin648 #22 Posted Aug 15 2013 - 14:56

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The gun is not the best heavy hitter but sweet jesus is it accurate and fast firing. Its pen serves it well enough but due to the MM spread you might need some gold for the teir 9's you get thrown at from time to time.  It is a huge upgrade from the ball ache that was the VII, a machine I utterly loathed and hated with all my black heart!

SRozell #23 Posted Aug 15 2013 - 16:18

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Doesn't really matter if its a heavy hitter or not simple fact of the matter its with 150 alpha damage you are not going to kill a IS-3 or anything any time soon before they kill  you its a tank that I see lots of tier 9 battles and really the only good the tank is for is killing wounded heavy's off. Sorry but when you have to shoot something 6 times to deal 600 points of damage your wasting your time and your teammates time in my opinion. Lots of med tanks the same tier have better damage acc and dpm don't mean much when your the last person on your team facing 5 or 6 wounded heavy's all sub 600 hp. You will die plain and simple. It like the rest of the British line really shouldn't even be in the game in my opinion not when you can grind out heavy's like the T29 and IS series. But then again WG really hasn't been very accurate with the British line the Caernarvon is a British medium tank they stuffed into the heavy line, but then again it wasn't a actual front line tank it never made it past trials with either the 20 pounder or the 105mm gun. The Mk5 Centurion did have a 105mm gun, and the British 20 pound gun is actually the equivalent of a German 88. Now ask yourself why did wg gimp the British med and heavy line's so bad because its something I would love to know myself. Most of the British tanks actually had very heavy armor for their day and age. What I would like to see is the Caernarvon become a gold medium tank with the 105 the rest of the heavy's drop to fill the gap not like they would have to do anything to them at all. Then add the British Chieftain MK1 to tier 10 but that's asking to much. I know that's what I would love to see but want in one had and poo in the other and see what fills up first.

Edited by SRozell, Aug 15 2013 - 16:58.


Thugtastic #24 Posted Aug 15 2013 - 17:39

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Of course the play style changes with what tier you are in.  There is nothing in tier 7 that the BP cannot dismantle with little effort.  Many tier 8s are also not a match for its troll armor and bouncy nature.  Going toe to toe with a t8 IS3 requires careful positioning and use of cover, just like anything else. The biggest complaints against the brit line are the abysmal lack of mobility in most cases, combined with "heavy" tanks that are only armed with Medium tank guns.. And there are lots of good reasons to like the Brit tree.  Yes, WG made some goofy decisions about many tanks, but that's what we get to deal with in order to play the game, after all its not a simulator (if it were, the Tiger 1's 88 would kill anything on the map up to tier 8 with one shot).  The grind to the IS/T29 are less painful to be sure and I'll not fault anyone for not seeing the Brit heavy line through, it can be a stinker.

SRozell #25 Posted Aug 15 2013 - 17:52

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And that's why I say British heavy and even the medium line past the comet are not worth the grind. To many will find both line's frustrating and will just sell them off. Its a shame too that I myself being a avid British armor fan find what WOT has to offer in the British lines dismal and very disappointing.

Coltaine47 #26 Posted Aug 15 2013 - 18:00

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I did a few battles in the BP and its really fun and way more agile than the Churchill 7 Gun is weaker for damage wise but it can take allot of punishment  iv had tier 6s including hellcats have a tough time penetrating me and occasionally bounce a shot from a IS

Very fun tank to play so far but its 10k to repair though

sharlin648 #27 Posted Aug 16 2013 - 14:31

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I too would love to know why WG were so oddly accurate with the gun selection of the UK tanks.  Personally the BP should have mounted as its top gun in game the 20lber A barrel, the Caern the 105 and so on.  If other nations machines can mount fantasy weapons I don't know why the UK tree can't. Especially considering that most of the UK tanks are absolute pigs to level.  The VII made me want to go throw babies and kittens into a wood chipper whilst the Centurion is WAY too big and is also pathetically weak.  Its top gun should be the 105.

Johnny_Mars #28 Posted Aug 16 2013 - 15:11

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The Black Prince absolutely does not need a better gun. The 105 is a Tier X gun, btw.

As for fantasy equipment, the Rolls Royce engine is pure conjecture. IRL, the tank was even slower than it is in WoT.

Interestingly, the BP was also supposed to get the Centurion turret, which has thinner-but-sloped armor, a faster traverse, 10m more view distance, and fires the 17-pdr at 13.6 rpm rather than 12. /drool

SRozell #29 Posted Aug 16 2013 - 16:05

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No the 120 mm would be the tier 9 gun. And after you grind all that experience in the BP you first gun in the Cae is yep you guessed it the 77 mm gun you grinded on a tier 6 tank. Sorry but I would give up a round or 2 per minute if I got at least a 300 alpha but you cant even get that till you get the 105 at tier 9. Their is no happy medium with British med or heavy tanks goes from worse to well even worse. No armor yep fast reloads but no alpha to speak up slow speeds just not a line many will bother playing but perhaps that's what war gaming wants. And why do people drool over a 77 mm gun when your facing tier 8 and 9 tanks and even shooting the squishy parts you do 150 points damage they hit you for 400 points and if your aim is off just a bit it bounces. Ya ,maybe a great fire rate but in the end with everyone shooting gold and auto loaders it like the rest of the British heavy and meds. I hear lots of people say why am I wasting my time in British tanks why don't I just roll American or Russian heavy's. I do it because perhaps one day war gaming will see that perhaps they really should give the British tank players a fair shake in this game too.

Edited by SRozell, Aug 16 2013 - 17:30.


Johnny_Mars #30 Posted Aug 16 2013 - 23:21

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View PostSRozell, on Aug 16 2013 - 16:05, said:

No the 120 mm would be the tier 9 gun. And after you grind all that experience in the BP you first gun in the Cae is yep you guessed it the 77 mm gun you grinded on a tier 6 tank.
The 120mm is a Tier X gun and the stock gun on the Caernarvon is the 17-pdr.

nublex #31 Posted Aug 16 2013 - 23:33

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If the upgrade gun is 20pdr I would understand, given L7 is a  rather late addition to the Royal Ordnance.

SRozell #32 Posted Aug 17 2013 - 22:12

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Take the fact that a tank like the Caernarvon sees battles with tier 9's and 10's and you only have a 20 pounder. Now given the fact that a your tier 8 you are faceing IS-8 E-100's Maus and the like. So here is my question to you being a tank with no armor a 20 pounder and not alot going for it why would you or anyone else tier up British Armor?
Tier 8 med tanks have better damage then you do better armor better speed do I really need to go on. The only thing the Cae has going for it is 1600 hp but even at a 45 angle you dont bounce much. So is the BP worth the grind to tell you the turth no its not.
As I said its why you dont see many british med and heavys in pub groups no real good reason to lvl them yes fast reloads great but reloads do very little when you get pulled into a brawl and being a heavy your going to get pulled in.
If you want a great all around tank I would suggest you take a look at the american heavy line becuse most people just really like a good all around tank. Flame all you want but most people dont bother with British tanks for a reason.

GHOSTWOLF_1980 #33 Posted Aug 18 2013 - 05:10

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It dose seem a little odd, that Brit tank are not up gunned.  I mean the Tiger has the Long 88mm witch historically was the Tiger 2 gun, where as the tiger 2 has a long 105mm, but British where not given the same treatment,

I am really struggling with Black Princes witch is kind of the shame as a very iconic tank,  I don't mind that it slow,  It is well armored and have driven it thought fire that would not have dare to weather in my tiger and survived,  but peeps shooting at you need to only get lucky a few times to pen you, where you need to get lucky a hell of a lot more to put out the same damage,

yes I know I could use prem round but for the damage you do with them,  the tank would cost a fortune to run, i mean 3200 per round for an extra 68 pen and max of 180 pts of damage ?

seekerjuanchis #34 Posted Aug 18 2013 - 07:54

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Churchill VII, Black Prince and Caernarvon are my favorite tanks, armor is good... fast rate of fire is practical facing other slow reload heavies and defending your heavy from mids and lights... and their pen is good, Black Prince might be slow, but its armor and gun make it a very nice tank for breaking lines and support.

Johnny_Mars #35 Posted Aug 18 2013 - 12:03

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View PostGHOSTWOLF_1980, on Aug 18 2013 - 05:10, said:

It dose seem a little odd, that Brit tank are not up gunned.  I mean the Tiger has the Long 88mm witch historically was the Tiger 2 gun, where as the tiger 2 has a long 105mm, but British where not given the same treatment,
The non-historical vehicles and equipment in WoT are taken from historical plans, even if it's just a crazy idea that some drunk engineer had in 1936. The developers don't seem to just make [stuff] up. For example, according to Achtung Panzer, "There was also experimental mounting of 88mm KwK 43 L/71 gun on Tiger but it was delayed and abandoned in favour of the development of Tiger II, which eventually was to replace Tiger I."

The website of the Bovington Tank Museum says of the Black Prince, "Many believe that the Black Prince should have been fitted with the proven Rolls Royce Meteor engine of about 600hp. Contemporary documents suggest that this was investigated but never done." That same page is where I found, "The development of Black Prince closely paralleled that of Centurion and it was planned, at one stage, to fit the Centurion turret to the Vauxhall tank."

As far as I'm able to dig up with a quick web search, the 17-pdr was the larger gun, on account of which the Churchill's hull was widened and the turret redesigned. There is nothing that I've found that suggests an even bigger gun was ever considered for the BP. In fact, the whole tank was a prototype which never entered production and never saw a fight, being overtaken by events.

nublex #36 Posted Aug 18 2013 - 16:02

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Given Charioteer just up gun to 20pdr when they have it, I think it is possible to mount a 20pdr on Centurion Mk I turret.

The downside for cause is now BP lost a toughish turret for not really an alpha gun.

SRozell #37 Posted Aug 18 2013 - 18:37

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Well since the Centurion Mk.5 actually mounted a 105 mm L7 but also the Centurion did mount the QF 20 pounder for a very short time. And no the 20 pounder was not mounted in the MK. 1 turret but was mounted in the MK. 3 turret which is the cast turret its also in the game. The 77 mm was deamed underpowered and replaced with the 20 pound QF gun. Intreating as well the lower glacis were also upgraded on the Mk.2's The uparmoured tank increased 118 mm-thick glacis and the side and rear armour had been increased from 38 mm to 51 mm the slope was also very bouncy due to the slope of the top glacis.
Intresting enough the Centurion Mk.1 was also highly mobile, and easily outperformed the Comet horse power to weight ratio was 13 hp/ton. But fact of the matter is at this moment in time either british med or heavys are not really worth tiering up only thing your going to find is garbage tanks, fast reload times are great very piss poor preformance in alphas and pen past tier 7. Not really a line most people will waste their time with.

Edited by SRozell, Aug 18 2013 - 21:25.


super_terry_dactyl #38 Posted Aug 19 2013 - 22:14

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I recently purchased the black prince after suffering through the churchill VII

I have been enjoying the black prince in the few battles i have played in it.
Its mobility is medium like, you can juke and dodge shells and duck in and out of cover, though of course the tank is very slow

I do enjoy the gun on the black prince. It fires quickly and shoots accurately even on the move, allowing you to shoot enemy tanks as you catch up to your allies who rush forward, a huge boon to the tank imo.
The big downside is the penetration, you MUST carry a cache of gold ammo to use against many tier 9 tanks, as well some tier 8's. 171 pen is simply not enough for a slow heavy that cannot flank.
To those who disagree and say "aim for weakpoints" go head to head with an e75 in your BP and see if you still will want to "aim for weakpoints" over using gold ammo.

Armor wise the black prince is mediocre. The armor is thick, but flat. Fortunately, due to the excellent mobility, if you keep moving and jerking around and angling you will force many bounces on tanks that would cut through your armor other wise.
The turret armor is excellent, and has a large mantlet that bounces many shots, and with the good gun depression of the tank allows you to go hull down often and blast away at the enemy.

These are my first impressions of the tank, and it is very good so far to me.
Hopefully it will stay that way as i grind for the caernarvon.
So far, I say it is definitely worth the grind

KraftLawrence #39 Posted Aug 19 2013 - 22:25

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I didn't think the BP was any good. The alpha is just way too low for a tier 7 heavy. Also being a churchill model, the turret's not exactly at the front, making depression games not fun to play.

The caenarvon is good, and the conqueror is simply amazing though.

Slash78 #40 Posted Aug 19 2013 - 23:36

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View PostKraftLawrence, on Aug 19 2013 - 22:25, said:

I didn't think the BP was any good. The alpha is just way too low for a tier 7 heavy. Also being a churchill model, the turret's not exactly at the front, making depression games not fun to play.

The caenarvon is good, and the conqueror is simply amazing though.

There is more in the world (of tanks) then just Alpha Damage.




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