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What tier should the archer be?


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Ogopogo #1 Posted Aug 21 2013 - 04:46

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I sure many of you who know about British tanks are sure to know about the archer tank destroyer used by the British. To sum it's design simply, it was a way of providing a way to move about the heavy but powerful 17 pounder anti tank gun, or any other similarly powerful gun. At the time, no tank could mount the 17 pounder. The valentine was one of several obsolete, but still widely available, platforms which were considered for the position. Other tanks included the churchill (churchill gun carrier) and the crusader to name a few. The valentine was eventually chosen as it was still produced, as it had a low silhouette and was still being produced. 800 were ordered, 655 were produced by the end of the war.


The vehicle itself was classified as a self-propelled anti-tank gun by the British, and indeed, it was used as one. It had one very peculiar trait which some of you may know by now.

See that picture up there? That is the back of the tank.

To mount the gun, it had to be placed facing the rear of the tank. Though the gun recoiled into the driver's, the driver could sit there if they needed to move quickly. It proved to be a great ambush weapon and by many crews it was preferred over the



So what's the problem with all of this?

Well, what tier would you put something like this?

Though it has the powerful 17 pounder, you run into trouble where the chassis is concerned. It is the valentine hull, and it is facing the rear. While a great defense tank, it can hardly be considered all that great on the offense. The need to turn around could prove it's undoing, and it is not particularly fast or nimble. Yet 171 penetration and 150 alpha is nothing to scoff at. The chassis itself seems to want to sit at tier 4, while the gun itself, tier 6. In any situation you would have to adjust either one.

Place it at tier 4, you have a simply terrifying gun with poor soft stats and likely gun handling stats.
Place it at tier 5, you have a slightly poor chassis, with a good gun.
Place it at tier 6, you have an almost outclassed chassis, with an amazing handling gun.

Really, it could fit at any of those tiers.

TOMAS_legend_Xeraux #2 Posted Aug 21 2013 - 04:49

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I don't know, but he [archer] should probably go back to D&D.
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Xlucine #3 Posted Aug 21 2013 - 04:49

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I say 5.

XTRMN8 #4 Posted Aug 21 2013 - 04:50

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Well, the 17-pounder is the main gun on the Black Prince (IIRC), which is Tier VII. There, the gun is considered to have good DPM, decent pen but very low alpha. Tank Destroyers often have a top gun a tier (or even two) higher than comparable tanks of the same tier, so perhaps it could be a Tier 6 (or even 5) and play similarly to a backwards Dicker Max. i.e. , very poor armor, sub-par mobility but a powerful gun for its tier.
P.S. : A Crusader-based tank destroyer could be an interesting prospect... balance the 17-pounder rate of fire, and what you have is something along the lines of the SU-85B all over again...

Edited by XTRMN8, Aug 21 2013 - 04:52.


Plebbie_Von_Plebs #5 Posted Aug 21 2013 - 04:52

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I'm figuring around tier 6-7. I'm suspecting tier 6 which would rival the Dicker Max; assuming, that is, that they make it a premium.

AGMx #6 Posted Aug 21 2013 - 04:53

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Tier 6 or 7

Ogopogo #7 Posted Aug 21 2013 - 04:54

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View PostBryan1025, on Aug 21 2013 - 04:52, said:

I'm figuring around tier 6-7. I'm suspecting tier 6 which would rival the Dicker Max; assuming, that is, that they make it a premium.
If it was part of a standard line?

Edited by Ogopogo, Aug 21 2013 - 04:55.


Ogopogo #8 Posted Aug 21 2013 - 05:11

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View PostXTRMN8, on Aug 21 2013 - 04:50, said:

P.S. : A Crusader-based tank destroyer could be an interesting prospect... balance the 17-pounder rate of fire, and what you have is something along the lines of the SU-85B all over again...

That would be this thing.

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KaiserWilhelmShatner #9 Posted Aug 21 2013 - 05:17

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Tier doesn't matter.  What does is how is the thing going to play.  The gun on the Archer faced toward the rear.  Unless you plan to drive in reverse the whole match at 12kph, or hopes of driving forward and when spotting a red do a quick and massive U-turn in the open.  Either way, it will be interesting to see how it all works out.

Vanagandr #10 Posted Aug 21 2013 - 05:28

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You could just ask Loz.
http://cw.worldoftan...mblem_64x64.png

Slakrrrrrr #11 Posted Aug 21 2013 - 05:32

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I agree with Xlucine, tier 5. This is mostly because it mounts a 17 Pdr, but would have the same control scheme as the Crusader SP.

ket101 #12 Posted Aug 21 2013 - 05:38

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The S-35 CA mounts a 17 pounder at Tier 5.  I don't think they'll take the gun any lower than that, so Tier 5 is the most probable.

nublex #13 Posted Aug 21 2013 - 11:57

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Archer doesn't have gun upgrade like S-35CA do, SU-85B's LB-2S is good even in tier VI.

As for the Crusader TD, i though it is more like Crusader SP with 17pdr.

ket101 #14 Posted Aug 21 2013 - 12:06

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Yes, but the 17 pounder is viable at any level it sees.  It's the top gun on the Black Prince Churchill after all.

Shrike58 #15 Posted Aug 21 2013 - 12:10

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Crusader SPG is Tier VI so that is probably the logical placement for this puppy.

nublex #16 Posted Aug 22 2013 - 00:14

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View PostShrike58, on Aug 21 2013 - 12:10, said:

Crusader SPG is Tier VI so that is probably the logical placement for this puppy.
Archer or Crusader AT?

Wyvern2 #17 Posted Aug 31 2013 - 04:58

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The archer should be tier 5, it would be about as mobile as the S35 CA, similar stats except better camo in exchange for better ROF, lower top speed and lower alpha




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