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KV-1S nerf in 8.9

KV-1S nerf 8.9

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Poll: KV-1S Nerf in 8.9 (397 members have cast votes)

Should KV-1S be nerfed in 8.9

  1. No (227 votes [57.18%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 57.18%

  2. Voted Yes (170 votes [42.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 42.82%

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N00T #41 Posted Aug 30 2013 - 18:09

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Whats going on here is that WG is trying to please everyone. No matter how hard they try, they will never get the game to where everyone agrees that every tank is balanced. I personally do not think the kv-1s needs a nerf, but its an OPINION. There are a lot of other tanks that people THINK are OP, because they have trouble succeeding when facing them. When there are 2 or 3 kv-1s's in a platoon and they're doing well. its because people platoon up to work together. They dish out a lot of damage fast because most of the time they will focus down targets. This strategy will work in pretty well any tank. On its own it can do a lot of damage, but you can't put this tank in the hands of any tanker and expect them to have great games consistently.

When it is played right, it appears to be OP because they have good games in it. It doesn't take too much brains or skill to learn how to use it right either; this is because its a HEAVY tank. Its not like a lot of lights and mediums which have no armor that forces you to rely on cover, camo, and maneuverability. Yes, the KV-1S can bounce shots, but its not invulnerable. Just like every tank it has weakspots, and just like every tank, if you flank it and shoot the sides and rear, you're going to do well. Sitting in the same spot (with or without cover to peek out from) is not going to be an effective tactic unless you have other friendlies to draw their fire from other positions as well.

Knowing not to jump out in front of a kv-1s aiming in your direction should be fairly obvious, but just like many other tanks with big and powerful guns or solid armor, it takes patience and skill to play against them effectively. If your only option is to take on a kv-1s from the front, there are still weak spots, your ability to utilize your tanks strengths (armor with angling, maneuverability, etc), and even premium ammo to help you fight it. You aren't balancing a game by making all tanks similar and not letting them keep their strengths, that's just making it boring.

The idea of this game is to play to your tanks strengths, and to do well, you need to do everything in your power to make it an unfair battle when you go up against other people. Yes, (providing the driver knows how to use the tank) the KV-1s 9 times out of 10 will win when going one on one with a medium/light tank of the same tier, or even 1-2 higher, and even against same tier heavies; that doesn't make it unbalanced. You're silly to put yourself in that position. Its up to the player to THINK while playing, know when he is outmatched and know his role and strengths in that particular game. The KV-1s is not OP because it isn't an instant win tank. However, if you're going to play to the tanks strengths and give it the opportunity to chop away large chunks of your health with its powerful gun, then it will definitely seem OP.

Another example would be coming along a t-29 in a hull down position. There aren't many tanks that are capable of surviving a front on assault against one, but its not OP. The tanks is almost indestructible if the driver keeps his hull hidden behind cover, and it has a very good gun in its tier. The reason why its not OP, is because you don't HAVE to face it front-on in a hull down position. You can keep it spotted so arty can shoot at it and force it out of cover. You can flank it and get easy shots into its weak hull armor. The same story is with the KV-1S; when the driver plays to its strengths (brawling with it or using cover in between firing so that the faster reloading tanks can't keep up their DPM), its going to do well. Just like how driving an ELC AMX right up beside a large tank so that it can't aim down on you to shoot back. The key is to know when the enemy has the advantage and not allow them to capitalize on it by playing to it.

The best example of this is artillery versus a Heavy tank. One on one, as long as the heavy tank can see and shoot at the Artillery, it has no chance in hell to win. But if you flip the scenario where the arty can see and shoot the Heavy tank and he cant fire back, then the Heavy tank doesn't stand a chance. Neither of these tanks are OP, but when played right, they do hold an unfair advantage over the other. There is no one tank that is ALWAYS more capable in EVERY situation than what it is facing.

No matter how much I say however, if WG sees that the majority of the community's opinion is that a tank is OP, they're going to nerf it in some way. I've found myself getting upset and frustrated at games because in the situation I was in I get dominated and couldn't do anything to harm the enemy, but after looking at the situation I ended up in, its no wonder why I lost. That doesn't mean that the enemy or enemies I faced were in OP tanks, it just means I wasn't playing my tank to its strengths well enough, I played into the strengths of the enemies tanks, or both. If you allow the enemy to exploit your tanks weakness, you can't expect to do well.

ComradeHX #42 Posted Aug 30 2013 - 23:02

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View Postnewman8r42, on Aug 30 2013 - 18:09, said:

The best example of this is artillery versus a Heavy tank. One on one, as long as the heavy tank can see and shoot at the Artillery, it has no chance in hell to win. But if you flip the scenario where the arty can see and shoot the Heavy tank and he cant fire back, then the Heavy tank doesn't stand a chance. Neither of these tanks are OP, but when played right, they do hold an unfair advantage over the other. There is no one tank that is ALWAYS more capable in EVERY situation than what it is facing.
There is very little chance of HT seeing artillery(not counting retards who are just that much more "special" than average arty one-hand players) until 10+ on enemy team is dead.
Same problem with Kv-1S; it even has above average depression(for soviet tank and most tier 6) and turret is not exactly paper(although also not exactly reliable)... AND it has alpha + decent mobility.
Something needed to be nerfed; although I thought a depression nerf to -5 would be fine.

View PostEinsenhower44, on Aug 29 2013 - 22:06, said:

I have the KV-1S, its not a bad tank. The 122 makes up for the sub-par armor. Just because the 122 deals about 450 damage per shot doesn't mean its the best. It has a 30 second reload time and the tank can be easily tracked, lit on fire, ammo racked, etc. It's like saying the M4 Sherman with the 105mm gun is OP. The M4 and KV-1S are in the same class when it comes to quality. They both have sub-par armor and decent speed, but outstanding guns to make up for it. So should the 122 be nerfed? No. It makes the grind for the IS harder and the KV-1S becomes less fun in my opinion.
Funny thing is that you supposedly have Kv-1s yet have no idea how much damage it does nor how long its reload is.

Edited by ComradeHX, Aug 30 2013 - 23:07.


MarioPlayer1 #43 Posted Aug 31 2013 - 14:08

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Edited by MarioPlayer1, Sep 01 2013 - 11:32.


Xumos #44 Posted Sep 02 2013 - 01:08

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I have a KV-1S and after playing some of the other trees all I want to do @ around tier 6 is buy some gold and free xp past this tier level. Every Tier 6 match I see swarms of KV-1S's. Knowing I will just get one or two shot with that 175 pen 390 alpha gun as soon as one looks my way kind of takes the fun out of playing anything but the KV-1S. Try playing something other then the KV-1S right now and you will be in the same situation. The tank has very few weaknesses and doesn't compensate at all for it's extremely powerful derp cannon.

ComradeHX #45 Posted Sep 02 2013 - 05:35

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View PostShades998, on Sep 02 2013 - 01:08, said:

I have a KV-1S and after playing some of the other trees all I want to do @ around tier 6 is buy some gold and free xp past this tier level. Every Tier 6 match I see swarms of KV-1S's. Knowing I will just get one or two shot with that 175 pen 390 alpha gun as soon as one looks my way kind of takes the fun out of playing anything but the KV-1S. Try playing something other then the KV-1S right now and you will be in the same situation. The tank has very few weaknesses and doesn't compensate at all for it's extremely powerful derp cannon.
More often, with skilled player; it is Kv-1s that never sees enemy while being shot from 400m+.
I do not even recall any tank at tier or even below that has less view distance than kv-1s.

Edited by ComradeHX, Sep 02 2013 - 05:35.


norsewolf #46 Posted Sep 02 2013 - 05:36

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the fact that more people say no on this poll is absurd

Wyvern2 #47 Posted Sep 02 2013 - 07:26

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I loved beating the crap out of KV1s's in my T150, way better chance of bouncing his shots, almost fail less ability to pen them, and a well balanced gun, unlike the all or nothing POS that is the 1s's 122.

Camron2 #48 Posted Sep 02 2013 - 17:47

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GET RID OF IT! I hate it...not fair to low tier tankers, always getting one shotted. FIX IT NOW, please.

Ford_Mustank #49 Posted Sep 02 2013 - 17:52

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And why exactly do people keep rambling on about this? I'll only believe it when I see the 8.9 update notes.

RommelsCat #50 Posted Sep 07 2013 - 15:52

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can someone please tell me exactly which 100mm gun kv-1s will get to replace 122mm and if possible which other russian tank already has it? thanks for your time guys.

FlorbFnarb #51 Posted Sep 08 2013 - 19:30

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View PostShades998, on Sep 02 2013 - 01:08, said:

I have a KV-1S and after playing some of the other trees all I want to do @ around tier 6 is buy some gold and free xp past this tier level. Every Tier 6 match I see swarms of KV-1S's. Knowing I will just get one or two shot with that 175 pen 390 alpha gun as soon as one looks my way kind of takes the fun out of playing anything but the KV-1S. Try playing something other then the KV-1S right now and you will be in the same situation. The tank has very few weaknesses and doesn't compensate at all for it's extremely powerful derp cannon.

Amazing how somebody can post that much wrong in one single post.

The KV-1S has MANY weaknesses, and there are a zillion tanks at Tier 6 that can take out a KV-1S without breaking a sweat.  If you can't handle a KV-1S in those tanks, it doesn't mean the 1S is OP, it means you need to improve.

Landsraad #52 Posted Sep 09 2013 - 02:00

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View PostFlorbFnarb, on Sep 08 2013 - 19:30, said:

The KV-1S has MANY weaknesses, and there are a zillion tanks at Tier 6 that can take out a KV-1S without breaking a sweat.  If you can't handle a KV-1S in those tanks, it doesn't mean the 1S is OP, it means you need to improve.
Oh this I just have to hear, because in the trinity of mobility protection and firepower every tier VI I've run has been outclassed by the KV-1S in at least two areas.  It's not the ARL 44, because the KV-1S can outmaneuver, out-pen or out-DPS, and even out-armor me everywhere but the front.  The Churchill VII's only saving grace, its frontal armor, is totally nullified by that beast of a gun.  The Hellcat dies if a KV-1S so much as looks at it. The Jagdpanzer IV can't survive anything but a sneak attack because of its lack of a turret. Most mediums need a good deal of room to try and circle a KV-1S, room which a half-competent driver won't give them.  The only tank I've driven that might be able to survive a stand-up brawl with a KV-1S is, of all things, the TOG II, which is too slow to catch a KV-1S and would probably only survive because of its ridiculous health.

Edited by Landsraad, Sep 09 2013 - 03:57.


ComradeHX #53 Posted Sep 09 2013 - 02:48

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View PostLandsraad, on Sep 09 2013 - 02:00, said:

Oh this I just have to hear, because in the trinity of mobility protection and firepower every tier VI I've run has outclassed by the KV-1S in at least two areas.  It's not the ARL 44, because the KV-1S can outmaneuver, out-pen or out-DPS, and even out-armor me everywhere but the front.
Are you seriously going to compare side armour at tier 6?

Outdps 105mm gun on ARL44?

blowwer282 #54 Posted Sep 09 2013 - 02:50

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Well KV-1S is getting nerfed ... But that only means it makes my ARL's life a little more easier.

Landsraad #55 Posted Sep 09 2013 - 03:50

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View PostComradeHX, on Sep 09 2013 - 02:48, said:

Are you seriously going to compare side armour at tier 6?
Unless tanks only have fronts at that tier, then yeah, I will point out that the ARL's side and rear armor that even a tier II can pen as a downside when compared to the KV-1S.

View PostComradeHX, on Sep 09 2013 - 02:48, said:

Outdps 105mm gun on ARL44?
Yes, that is indeed what I meant, because the 105mm totally has more pen than the 90mm.

Edited by Landsraad, Sep 09 2013 - 03:58.


ComradeHX #56 Posted Sep 09 2013 - 03:52

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View PostLandsraad, on Sep 09 2013 - 03:50, said:

Yes, that is indeed what I meant, because the 105mm totally has more pen than the 90mm.
90mm has too much pen for KV-1S.

105mm is just fine(not to mention APCR has even higher damage).

SumiXam #57 Posted Sep 09 2013 - 21:41

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View PostLandsraad, on Sep 09 2013 - 02:00, said:

The Hellcat dies if a KV-1S so much as looks at it.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to call you out on this. A properly driven Hellcat will have a KV-1S dead before it ever spots the Kitty.

Besides, players who decide to brawl with a KV-1S (unless they have a decided advantage in being able to kill it before it reloads) are quite simply cognitively deficient.

Prosqtor #58 Posted Sep 09 2013 - 22:02

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View PostIldasm, on Aug 26 2013 - 15:02, said:

Hi Tankers,

I read from a good source, FTR WOT, that "KV-1S will lose 122mm D-2-5 in 8.9 – it will be replaced by 100mm S-34 (not D-10T) and by 85mm 85BM gun"

Why WG is so nuts about nerfing everything that's a bit better than the rest? What's their goal? To have all tanks to be the same and have everything plain and boring? Anyways I don't think that KV-1S is much better than other tier 6 Heavy tanks, look at ARL 44 for example. I think it is just fine the way it is right now, plus 122mm gun is historical.

Anyways let me know what you think guys.

I am also attaching a poll to see what you guys think.

All the Best,

Dasm


"a little bit"

Ha.  The M4 was OP, no question.  I once had seven shots for seven kills.  Anyone who was honest knew the truth.

The KV-1S is OP.  Perhaps not as much as a few of the TDs at the moment, but definitely OP.  Check Noobmeter's tank OP ratings.

andonemaniac #59 Posted Sep 10 2013 - 20:47

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View PostSumiXam, on Aug 27 2013 - 15:31, said:

The funny thing is that seeing a KV-1S in battle, let alone multiples of them, was a rarity before the KV-3 got moved to Tier 7. Tier 6 is pretty balanced in my opinion. There are several very fun vehicles there and they can all effectively counter each other.
Exactly and people didnt even whine about it as much as they do now with the 1S. So just what exactly happened here?

ComradeHX #60 Posted Sep 11 2013 - 02:32

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View Postandonemaniac, on Sep 10 2013 - 20:47, said:

Exactly and people didnt even whine about it as much as they do now with the 1S. So just what exactly happened here?
The ones whining were trying to take kv-1s 1v1 frontally in a tier V medium or even TD in close range?





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