Jump to content


The logical argument to whining about the KV-1S being OP

KV-1S NOT_OP

  • Please log in to reply
84 replies to this topic

ChairInAGasket #1 Posted Sep 11 2013 - 03:49

    Major

  • Players
  • 21454 battles
  • 2,797
  • Member since:
    09-12-2011
IMO (and this is just my opinion  :hiding:  ), the KV-1S isn't really overpowered, it's just that it's the one and only "alpha damage" heavy tank at the Tier, which makes it a bit difficult to deal with for most. You see, most players are used to dealing with DPM tanks, however, the typical steps taken to counter their effectiveness (peek-a-booming, avoiding trading shots, etc.) play to the KV-1S's strengths. As a matter of fact, I've seen VK 36.01 (H)s own KV-1S drivers better than themselves statwise while using the 88, and here's how: the KV-1S may have a BL-10-like alpha (for its Tier), like the BL-10, it's reload is measured in EONS. The 88 puts out 220 damage per shot, and fires more than twice as quickly, meaning that if you eat a shot from him while pushing forward, you'll still get to do a favorable 440 damage over his 390 in the same space of time. Also, the thing about it, and this goes for pretty much every Soviet heavy tank down the IS-7 line, but more so for the KV-1S and IS, is that you want to, rather counter-intuitively, avoid the bouncy turret cheeks and go STRAIGHT FOR THE MANTLET, and if that fails, then the massive tumor on top. On top of that, although most players who've never played it and who say that it's OP wouldn't know ( :sceptic: ), the tank is a freaking lighter! I've literally been shot in the paper thin frontal hull armor and been set on fire! Oh, and did I mention that? It actually has less hull armor than its predecessor, the KV-1 at Tier 5, and presents an enormous silhouette. While it may be fast for a heavy, it would shame any proper medium  :teethhappy:  . It also still has terrible aim time, accuracy, and bloom, which make it as useless at range as wings for a worm. In conclusion, it trades so much for that alpha and pen, it loses at almost everything else.
P.S. before the whiners come and say "oh, but the W/R...", it's because, being an alpha damage-based tank, it's used in Medium TCs by even unicums, and while it has a 59% Server W/R, the ARL 44 has a 61% somehow  :sceptic:
So please, don't whine about that, it's utterly pointless

Meruccubus #2 Posted Sep 11 2013 - 03:52

    Captain

  • Players
  • 12203 battles
  • 1,555
  • [PZWTZ] PZWTZ
  • Member since:
    07-23-2012
KV-2 is another alfa damage tank at the tier.

SunTzu71 #3 Posted Sep 11 2013 - 03:56

    Major

  • Players
  • 51537 battles
  • 5,321
  • Member since:
    04-02-2012
It's OP. It can one shot tanks ONE TIER BELOW IT.

FrostMoon #4 Posted Sep 11 2013 - 03:59

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 12947 battles
  • 81
  • [FURST] FURST
  • Member since:
    07-14-2012
I once one shot a KV-1S in my KV-2...oh the fun that was.

soviet_T_47 #5 Posted Sep 11 2013 - 03:59

    Captain

  • Players
  • 12423 battles
  • 1,178
  • [MOC] MOC
  • Member since:
    07-10-2011
i havnt played the kv-1s but ive killed many (and been crippled pretty bad by them) to know they have they re pros (in the hands of a skilled player its pretty deadly) and faults. (armor is horrible... i killed one in my kv-1 today because he tried ramming me and shooting at my turrent... :sceptic: not the brightest move on his behalve since my 85 tore him apart.)

mongoosejake #6 Posted Sep 11 2013 - 04:04

    Major

  • Players
  • 36273 battles
  • 5,336
  • [S-F] S-F
  • Member since:
    11-02-2012
Just as an observation... Most players that defend the KV-1S just so happen to use it primarily.

Just as an example: You are defending the KV-1S and as a player you've played Soviet tanks 92% of your battles, with that majority of that 92% being in heavies (41% of all of your battles), with the KV-1S, IS and IS-3 leading the way. Of course you'll defend it, lol.

The same arguments were used initially by the users of 105mm howitzers before they got slightly downgraded. Still happened.

Use the 122 on the KV-1S while you can, and enjoy it. It will get changed soon.

Starzfan #7 Posted Sep 11 2013 - 04:19

    Major

  • Players
  • 14176 battles
  • 2,505
  • [A-WLV] A-WLV
  • Member since:
    07-10-2011
They really arent OP.. yes,they can lay down a good hurt, but their reload rate is horrid, their accuracy is horrid.. take advantage of both and dont sit and play peek a boo with one, and you will do fine.

Starzfan #8 Posted Sep 11 2013 - 04:21

    Major

  • Players
  • 14176 battles
  • 2,505
  • [A-WLV] A-WLV
  • Member since:
    07-10-2011

View Postmongoosejake, on Sep 11 2013 - 04:04, said:

Just as an observation... Most players that defend the KV-1S just so happen to use it primarily.
Just as an example: You are defending the KV-1S and as a player you've played Soviet tanks 92% of your battles, with that majority of that 92% being in heavies (41% of all of your battles), with the KV-1S, IS and IS-3 leading the way. Of course you'll defend it, lol.
The same arguments were used initially by the users of 105mm howitzers before they got slightly downgraded. Still happened.
Use the 122 on the KV-1S while you can, and enjoy it. It will get changed soon.
It wont get changed..It hasnt been a problem for 2 years.... what suddenly makes you think it is now?? a few whining who dont know how to play??  Hell,that is 80% of players now, It is pathetic that WOT caters to their crappy play by nerfing perfectly good tanks, making good players suffer so that their crappy player base doenst leave out of frustration with their own lack of skills, tactics, and basic common sense..  This game is no longer about skill, it is about luck and whining so that every tank that kills you ends up nerfed, to keep you here, spending gold.  This game is nothing like what it was a year and a half ago.. when you actually had to use common sense, cover, tactics.....  now it is all about  whiners, rigged MM ( and no one can say that it doesnt rig battles.. it is statistically obvious)  and catering to the bad players to keep them here.   Even clan wars has been ruined since, unless you have a team of tier 10 autoloaders, you arent going to win a damn thing.   Between the devs and the junk players,   this game is quickly going down the toilet.   Now, hand me some tissue to wipe with, please.

Wyvern2 #9 Posted Sep 11 2013 - 04:24

    Major

  • Players
  • 35835 battles
  • 3,124
  • [_D_] _D_
  • Member since:
    06-08-2011
woop de do, the valentine AT and T82 can oneshot tanks 2 tiers above their own tier, so what are you clowns whining about when it comes to oneshotting something one tier below them

Prosqtor #10 Posted Sep 11 2013 - 04:30

    Major

  • Players
  • 64308 battles
  • 2,085
  • [ONION] ONION
  • Member since:
    12-16-2011
Yeah.  And the M4 was not OP, either.  Whatever makes you feel good about yourself is fine.

Buzzkill15 #11 Posted Sep 11 2013 - 18:39

    Major

  • Players
  • 17372 battles
  • 2,847
  • Member since:
    10-28-2012
What makes the kv1s op is particularly in the context of tournys or tank companies where coordinated use means that any given target gets auto killed by focused fire. In a game where player skill is relatively even, each lost gun is critical. When you go into tournys and tcs and see the VAST majority of heavy tank used at t6 is all kv1s with a smattering of vk3601 you see tue dominance of the tank.

mongoosejake #12 Posted Sep 12 2013 - 17:46

    Major

  • Players
  • 36273 battles
  • 5,336
  • [S-F] S-F
  • Member since:
    11-02-2012

View PostStarzfan, on Sep 11 2013 - 04:21, said:

It wont get changed..It hasnt been a problem for 2 years.... what suddenly makes you think it is now?? a few whining who dont know how to play??  Hell,that is 80% of players now, It is pathetic that WOT caters to their crappy play by nerfing perfectly good tanks, making good players suffer so that their crappy player base doenst leave out of frustration with their own lack of skills, tactics, and basic common sense..  This game is no longer about skill, it is about luck and whining so that every tank that kills you ends up nerfed, to keep you here, spending gold.  This game is nothing like what it was a year and a half ago.. when you actually had to use common sense, cover, tactics.....  now it is all about  whiners, rigged MM ( and no one can say that it doesnt rig battles.. it is statistically obvious)  and catering to the bad players to keep them here.   Even clan wars has been ruined since, unless you have a team of tier 10 autoloaders, you arent going to win a damn thing.   Between the devs and the junk players,   this game is quickly going down the toilet.   Now, hand me some tissue to wipe with, please.

I didn't once "whine" about the KV-1s (never have complained about any tank period)...

For that matter, I've never complained about the game. For me it's a game and I have fun playing for about an hour each night once my kids are in bed and my wife is watching her favorite show.

My statement about the KV-1s (and my comment on how you should enjoy it while you can) is from the statements that it will indeed be changed. The developers were looking into how to change it, either by replacing the 122mm altogether, or modifying it (I.E. Lower RoF for example, or lower damage per shot-like what's happened to the Konisch).

Like I said, enjoy the 122mm equipped KV-1S now while you can. A change is in the works, sometime soon (next couple of updates maybe, either 8.9 or 9.0). Have fun with it, and you'll likely get some sort of benefit if they do as they did to the old KV when it split into the KV-1 and KV-2.

enoofu #13 Posted Sep 13 2013 - 01:32

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 11959 battles
  • 286
  • Member since:
    08-02-2012
It been OP since they increased ACC in 8.6 which turned the 122 mm into a killing machine at all ranges, + its high Pen and Dmg broke the tank hard

KV-1S should be a up armored T-34-85

SumiXam #14 Posted Sep 13 2013 - 14:59

    Major

  • Players
  • 7675 battles
  • 4,842
  • Member since:
    09-28-2011

View PostPeanutFly, on Sep 11 2013 - 03:49, said:

IMO (and this is just my opinion  :hiding:  ), the KV-1S isn't really overpowered, it's just that it's the one and only "alpha damage" heavy tank at the Tier, which makes it a bit difficult to deal with for most.

I agree with you, but it isn't the one and only alpha heavy tank of its tier. The KV-2 has it beat in that category.

6TEKEL9 #15 Posted Sep 13 2013 - 17:17

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 32788 battles
  • 374
  • [AMPED] AMPED
  • Member since:
    06-19-2011
I often 1 shot kv1s in my kv2.
Can see why some might think their OP but their generally the same that will just camp in the same position all match instead of relocating to a spot to flank them or at least distract them when someone ealse flanks them for you.
The fact that it is almost useless without gold in a teir 8 match (which it gets 90% of the time) nullify the OP factor when top tank IMO.

Cirran #16 Posted Sep 17 2013 - 14:02

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 12467 battles
  • 703
  • [SHAB] SHAB
  • Member since:
    03-27-2011

View Postmesowar, on Sep 13 2013 - 17:17, said:

I often 1 shot kv1s in my kv2.
Can see why some might think their OP but their generally the same that will just camp in the same position all match instead of relocating to a spot to flank them or at least distract them when someone ealse flanks them for you.
The fact that it is almost useless without gold in a teir 8 match (which it gets 90% of the time) nullify the OP factor when top tank IMO.

M6 is thrown into tier 8 fights as well. It has a 90 mm, and has to sling gold to be less then almost useless. How does this show the KV1s is balanced compared to it?

Cirran

Indranil09 #17 Posted Sep 17 2013 - 14:14

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 24549 battles
  • 260
  • [-GF-] -GF-
  • Member since:
    04-07-2013
KV1S is a awesome tank. I really enjoy playing with it. hit and hide tank and the 122mm is a monster .

6TEKEL9 #18 Posted Sep 17 2013 - 15:17

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 32788 battles
  • 374
  • [AMPED] AMPED
  • Member since:
    06-19-2011

View PostCirran, on Sep 17 2013 - 14:02, said:

M6 is thrown into tier 8 fights as well. It has a 90 mm, and has to sling gold to be less then almost useless. How does this show the KV1s is balanced compared to it?Cirran

Good point, to be honest I do not have any recent experience with the M6 myself, been yrs since I drove it but from what i'v seen other good players do in pubs with them is 2nd line support, sit back behind cover sniping the tracks off leaving teir 8's as nothing more then stationary pill boxes for others to flank or kill while snafuing the tracking dmg.
Then move to the next flank and help stop the push.

M6 is less noob friendly I agree but still a great tank when used properly.

mongoosejake #19 Posted Sep 19 2013 - 15:30

    Major

  • Players
  • 36273 battles
  • 5,336
  • [S-F] S-F
  • Member since:
    11-02-2012

View Postmesowar, on Sep 17 2013 - 15:17, said:

Good point, to be honest I do not have any recent experience with the M6 myself, been yrs since I drove it but from what i'v seen other good players do in pubs with them is 2nd line support, sit back behind cover sniping the tracks off leaving teir 8's as nothing more then stationary pill boxes for others to flank or kill while snafuing the tracking dmg.
Then move to the next flank and help stop the push.

M6 is less noob friendly I agree but still a great tank when used properly.

I personally like my M6, and had a winning record in it before 8.7, but dropped 3% off winrate since. Still enjoy it, but have been getting tier 8 battles way to often recently compared to pre 8.7/8.6 when I seen nearly half and half tier 6 and 7 battles with only a few 8's. Have to dust it off and give it some playing time soon.

Hanz_Gooblemienhoffen_42 #20 Posted Sep 19 2013 - 21:17

    Major

  • Players
  • 13813 battles
  • 2,054
  • Member since:
    05-14-2011
Would actually tend to disagree with you about the OP'ed-ness of this tank PeanutFly...and i do have one..

While there are weakness' to this tank...they are completely offset by the monstrous alpha/pen...being able to one shot lower tiers does make this tank extremely dangerous....most tanks really can't trade shots with it. And even tanks of the same tier have a hard time with this tank if they aren't at full health...sure 1 on 1 many tanks like the VK and KV's might have a chance to out DPM it...but in most cases tanks don't just sit in the open and exchange fire..and the DPM simply wont compete with the alpha in real battle terms.

The 8.6 update also really removed most of the issues with bloom and aim time...you simply don't have to aim if you are close to your target and even at distances lower than 200m...sure there are some people that will sit back and try to snipe with it from 400m...but thats really not using it well...and due to its mobility...it can very quickly close the distance with weakened opponents and then alpha them into the ground.

The fact the IS basically uses the same gun (2nd 122mm has slightly better ROF)...but essentially you have a gun that belongs on a Tier higher heavy...where its not OP...but at its tier considering the tanks it often faces...its slightly OP.

While you can argue that its balanced by its weakness', those weakness' were really made mute by the accuracy buff. Skilled people can certainly take out lower skilled opponents who don't use the KV-1S well...but better skilled opponents can take out any tank driven by someone who doesn't use it well..

I guess an argument can be made "who do you balance tanks for?" the lower skilled player or the higher skilled?

If they give it the 100mm i think it will still do fine..if not better, as a higher ROF would tie in well with its excellent mobility...but remove its "i kill you with one shot" factor which i think is really the major issue with this gun/tank.





Also tagged with KV-1S, NOT_OP

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users