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Detail Page: Use of Cover


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BelgianPatton #21 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 00:27

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This poast receives the Official StrickNastyTM Seal of Approval.

Elimination2 #22 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 01:04

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As a former 11 series that has done some time in an Armored battalion, I at time wish more truly understood the terms of 'overwatch", bounding...etc etc.

Its always good to see someone post solid information, imparting knowledge to the masses, sadly the majority will never even bother to even look up anything even in the Wiki, let alone the forums.

mecha_Bill #23 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 01:12

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View PostErnesters, on Sep 28 2013 - 23:07, said:

nothing about side scraping? bummer.

Great read though.

He was basing his article on info from FM 17-98. I'm pretty sure that side scaping is NOT an approved tactic in the US Army, or any army.

For one thing, side scraping works in WOT because you expose your tracks which soak up damage without depleting your hit points. If you get tracked, you can repair it instantly  with a repair kit or at worst, wait about 15 seconds or so. In real life, a tracked tank would take tens of minutes to repair and that only if not under fire. Essentially, an M-Killed tank would be out until the end of the battle.

DracoArgentum #24 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 01:12

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Who else read this in The Chieftan's voice?

A_Hornblower #25 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 01:13

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Good stuff, Chieftain.

Thanks for opening the series.

Wish more people could understand things like this (and "hitting the flank of a distracted opponent" among other techniques). Would make the game a lot more enjoyable with a higher overall competence--and I've been the incompetent one more times than I care to remember!

Valtiel_ #26 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 01:14

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View Post1stKnight, on Sep 28 2013 - 20:12, said:

Correction: IS-4, IS-7, T-62A, Obj. 140, IS-8, ST-1, T-54, 113, 121, WZ-120, WZ-111 1-4, AMX 50 120, AMX 50B, Bat Chat 25t, E-100, E-50m, Leopard 1, Leopard PT A, etc... that can and will penetrate a T32 gun mantle by just loading a gold round (sorry list was getting too long).  Even with the Gun Mantle counting as spaced armor.
Needless to say they are fewer Tier 9 & 10 tanks that can't penetrate a T32 gun mantle than those that can penetrate your gun mantle. Remember fire the shot and hit the reverse button very quickly.
Remember kiddies, just because it has the penetration capabilities doesn't mean that it will automatically penetrate. Most of said tanks load HEAT as their gold round and, as with the case of the mantle on the T32, said rounds are absolutely useless against spacing armor.

Edited by Valtiel_, Sep 29 2013 - 02:26.


Guardian54 #27 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 01:43

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You lied, I've tried to round building corners and even when sniper sight said I was clear and on-target, my shell would be stopped by the building corner at times. This means the sniper view point isn't exactly down the gun barrel but to one side, or as long as my view was clear enough I wouldn't hit the building. Either that or the building collision model is about 10cm larger than the graphic shows.

Waelwulf #28 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 01:59

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View PostListy, on Sep 28 2013 - 23:23, said:

When ever I see something like this nice post, with good visuals I'm always reminded of this.

Heh actually use to show this clip as the intro to camouflage training for the Infantry courses I taught - humor can be a great way to grab attention and drive home point ;-)

Waelwulf #29 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 02:02

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View PostGuardian54, on Sep 29 2013 - 01:43, said:

You lied, I've tried to round building corners and even when sniper sight said I was clear and on-target, my shell would be stopped by the building corner at times. This means the sniper view point isn't exactly down the gun barrel but to one side, or as long as my view was clear enough I wouldn't hit the building. Either that or the building collision model is about 10cm larger than the graphic shows.

Remember that point of origin for shell isn't the end of your barrel but the point that barrel connects to turret so that is where round deviation begins.

The_Chieftain #30 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 02:23

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More to the point, if any part of the impact circle is overlapping the cover, it could be hit.

Legiondude #31 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 02:29

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Good stuff  :justwait:

BanditBren #32 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 02:34

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View Post1stKnight, on Sep 28 2013 - 20:12, said:

Correction: IS-4, IS-7, T-62A, Obj. 140, IS-8, ST-1, T-54, 113, 121, WZ-120, WZ-111 1-4, AMX 50 120, AMX 50B, Bat Chat 25t, E-100, E-50m, Leopard 1, Leopard PT A, etc... that can and will penetrate a T32 gun mantle by just loading a gold round (sorry list was getting too long).  Even with the Gun Mantle counting as spaced armor.
Needless to say they are fewer Tier 9 & 10 tanks that can't penetrate a T32 gun mantle than those that can penetrate your gun mantle. Remember fire the shot and hit the reverse button very quickly.

You've derailed this thread.
This thread is not about ballistics and penetration......

Slayer_Jesse #33 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 02:49

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View PostListy, on Sep 28 2013 - 23:23, said:

When ever I see something like this nice post, with good visuals I'm always reminded of this.

hah, whenever im playing arty or hiding in a forest, i think of this. especiallly if i get blown up XD

stagnate #34 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 03:34

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Nice to see, I look forward to hopefully seeing a good set of guides on things like this.  A couple of comments below, but please don't let it take away from overall intent.

I wish you had chosen a different choice for the urban hulldown.  That spot is terrible; it cannot react to any of the rest of the fight, and once the enemy knows you are there it has limited functionality (and is arty vulnerable).  Putting it in the guide means plenty of newbies out there will look at it and decide that's really a nice position to have.  There is a position in 3 line Himmelsdorf, for example, that would have been a better example.

It might also have been worth including a note about how gun depression affects the ability to go hulldown - a comparison shot of an IS-3 would show the advantage the T32 has on slopes and how much of the IS-3 is exposed when trying to get aim.

The_Chieftain #35 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 04:25

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View Poststagnate, on Sep 29 2013 - 03:34, said:

I wish you had chosen a different choice for the urban hulldown.  That spot is terrible; it cannot react to any of the rest of the fight, and once the enemy knows you are there it has limited functionality (and is arty vulnerable).  Putting it in the guide means plenty of newbies out there will look at it and decide that's really a nice position to have.  There is a position in 3 line Himmelsdorf, for example, that would have been a better example.
Unfortunately, this was written as a subset of a larger guide, which was deemed too large to release at once. The topic of "Die in place" positions and relocating is discussed elsewhere.

Quote

It might also have been worth including a note about how gun depression affects the ability to go hulldown - a comparison shot of an IS-3 would show the advantage the T32 has on slopes and how much of the IS-3 is exposed when trying to get aim.
Actually, I thought it was sufficiently worth noting that it's the topic of another "Detail Page" yet to be released.
(A basic, "one-paragraph per subject" document will link off to "detail pages")

Guardian54 #36 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 04:57

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View PostWaelwulf, on Sep 29 2013 - 02:02, said:

Remember that point of origin for shell isn't the end of your barrel but the point that barrel connects to turret so that is where round deviation begins.
The camera is also from the base of the gun... oh, you mean my gun accuracy's that horrible... wow.
However, none of my barrel (or aim circle) overlapped the cover at the time, I fired, then held right mouse and zoomed out, my gun was 1 gun barrel diameter away from the building edge... and the impact circle was all on the target. I wish I had replays enabled...

Edited by Guardian54, Sep 29 2013 - 04:57.


SAYSteez #37 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 05:06

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Who here has seen some new player think hull down meant go down a slop pointing the front of his hull down the hill towards the enemy tank? xD

DFM #38 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 06:24

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on Sep 29 2013 - 04:25, said:

Unfortunately, this was written as a subset of a larger guide, which was deemed too large to release at once. The topic of "Die in place" positions and relocating is discussed elsewhere.Actually, I thought it was sufficiently worth noting that it's the topic of another "Detail Page" yet to be released.
(A basic, "one-paragraph per subject" document will link off to "detail pages")

One issue with the keyhole section is zero mention of artillery vulnerability. That M36 is painting a gigantic drooling "Spank me till I like it" sign on the minimap sitting there static like that. Should probably give them that warning before some poor bastard gets gibbed trying this.

Xlucine #39 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 09:18

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View PostGuardian54, on Sep 29 2013 - 04:57, said:

The camera is also from the base of the gun... oh, you mean my gun accuracy's that horrible... wow.
However, none of my barrel (or aim circle) overlapped the cover at the time, I fired, then held right mouse and zoomed out, my gun was 1 gun barrel diameter away from the building edge... and the impact circle was all on the target. I wish I had replays enabled...

Lag. You thought it was clear, but the server thought otherwise

Hannibal_Traktor #40 Posted Sep 29 2013 - 11:48

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View PostListy, on Sep 28 2013 - 23:23, said:

When ever I see something like this nice post, with good visuals I'm always reminded of this.

There are a few spotting bushes on a number of maps that are almost always worth shooting up and I look forward to destructable terrain when I can Pythonise them.




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