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CombatBoss #21 Posted Nov 03 2013 - 05:11

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View PostGeophage, on Nov 02 2013 - 20:01, said:

Absolutely disagree.  If this information were "obvious", someone would have posted it somewhere on the internet.  I've been looking for exactly this kind of information for a year, and this series of articles is the first resource of it's kind I've found.  The Chieftain has done more to improve my game in the last few weeks than Lert or Quickybaby have in a year.

More info of a similar nature;
http://www.steelbeas...s#Counterattack

Tearithian #22 Posted Nov 03 2013 - 08:02

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Far far to often I have seen people disregard tactics and ignore their team mates simply to try and get more kills for themselves when it only leads to them getting killed and blaming it on the team.

Team work is importan and utilizing FPs goes to show that.

Perfect example.   The new game type with only a single flag.    Nearly every map has highly defensible positions right at the cap point and yet more than 75% of the players will head to a less defensible position and end up getting them killed.    Fighting Positions are about overlapping fields of fire, defensibility, and cover.    Mind you cover != defensibility.   It is a part of it yes but it's not the same.

Another thing to take into account are the types of tanks being used.   a M4 with the derp gun is not as effective with a large field of fire as a M4 with the M1A1 gun.   However if that M4 can find a spot where they can ambush the enemy with it and hit the tender parts of the tank it becomes very deadly.   So maps do determine how you will need to setup the FPs.  Another thing to consider for those who always want the high ground is gun depression.  If a tank has a crappy gun depression then it will always fail when it comes to the high ground unless you utilize it as a flank and/or rear guard unit.   But then how many of you want to sit there the whole match without getting to shoot a single thing?  Not very many of you from what I have seen.

Take Prokhorovka for instance.   One of the favorite spots is the hill at roughly G8.   You have a step and narrow route to the south which is easy to defend and a not so step and much wider route to the north.  Sure it can give artillary a way to control the map but how often do you see an arty head up there?   Take an arty with a few TD's and heavies to the top.   hide some scouts around the map with camo equipped and use mediums along the burm for the tracks to provide a frontline security and you have a wonderful spot.   And yet it never gets used that way.   You get 3-4 tanks going up there, usually just TD's but sometimes a heavy or medium and all the rest go along the other side of the map.   But it takes coordination, teamwork, communication, and a willingness to get ZERO kills and do ZERO damage to make sure it stays protected.   If a team did that it would be nearly impossible to break that hold.   The opposing team would have to focus on locating those camo'ed scouts (imagine trying to find a ELC AMX that is camo'ed in the brush) and killing them to remove the intelligence side from the team on the hill, then they would do 2 feints using 1 scout with a TD or medium in each feint all while mounting the actual attack.

Can it be done?  Sure.   Are you likely to see it happen outside of team battles or clan matches?  Highly doubtful.

I really should dig out my books from when I was in the 11th ACR.   I know I still have my Tactics and Strategy FM from when I was going to become a mustang before I was medically discharged.  Think I still have the rest.  Not sure though.

Rocky_Ballsboa #23 Posted Nov 03 2013 - 08:37

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Proceeding to primary battle position at hotel nine rgr rgr.

6thGuardArmy #24 Posted Nov 03 2013 - 09:03

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I just had a game on Lakeville in my Lee. My team spawned south and I said I would hold the valley with another tank. So out AMX 40 and I set up and wait. I am on that hilly thingy with the bushes. The enemy comes in force. Our AMX 40 dies. I kill a Lee and 85B before I was overrun, leaving a M4 and Pz.4 living. I guess I shoulds have relocated and fought a delaying action to the cap in town where my friendlies were. The match happened before I read this...

GreasyTony #25 Posted Nov 03 2013 - 11:26

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Good article on tactics.  I've been playing for 5 months and still learning the game, but one thing this article says puzzles me.  If I'm in my T-40 with a 500m view range and next to me is a Hertzer with a 325m view range (both have binocs) I will light up a tank within 500m and 'radio' the tanks position to the tanks within my radio range. So the Hertzer should be able to fire upon the target I spotted until he goes out of my view range, right?  This article says that is not the case. It says the StugIII should hold fire until the KV2 has the target within their view range.  I think this is wrongly stated in the article.
I know when I'm in my Hertzer, I can fire on a target out of my view range until it goes out of the range of the tank that spotted the target.  Or am I missing something? And if I'm right, this changes some of the strategy.
Comments?

Edited by GreasyTony, Nov 03 2013 - 11:45.


DessieDoo #26 Posted Nov 03 2013 - 12:05

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View PostGreasyTony, on Nov 03 2013 - 11:26, said:

Good article on tactics.  I've been playing for 5 months and still learning the game, but one thing this article says puzzles me.  If I'm in my T-40 with a 500m view range and next to me is a Hertzer with a 325m view range (both have binocs) I will light up a tank within 500m and 'radio' the tanks position to the tanks within my radio range. So the Hertzer should be able to fire upon the target I spotted until he goes out of my view range, right?  This article says that is not the case. It says the StugIII should hold fire until the KV2 has the target within their view range.  I think this is wrongly stated in the article.
I know when I'm in my Hertzer, I can fire on a target out of my view range until it goes out of the range of the tank that spotted the target.  Or am I missing something? And if I'm right, this changes some of the strategy.
Comments?

True enough on a flat field, or if you and the Hetzer are firing from the same position, but if Hetz doesn't have the angle, you should wait to fire until it does.  That way bam-bam, double tap, instead of you hitting him before hetz can take a shot, and enemy backing off or returning fire.

MozzaBurger #27 Posted Nov 03 2013 - 12:55

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Great article. It puts words on why I'm doing so much better in my meds than any of my TD or heavies : mobility, flanking, relocation, rely on avoiding fire altogether instead of relying on raw armor. I now have the theory nicely laid out and will try to apply it to a broader selection of tanks :)

AutobotMech #28 Posted Nov 03 2013 - 14:07

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Nice lesson Chief,  took a second for it to click on  , however its well laid out and  spoken. Unfortunately  I doubt my pub teams will follow, however the platoons I run with do  use  some of this stuff already. The withdraws I need to learn, as I  do tend to get stuck in  tunnel fight vision.

Pestilencemage #29 Posted Nov 03 2013 - 14:28

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All these posts are good, but this one is probably the best so far.  Straight out of the manual, Rommel would be proud.  I would previously have complained that you are giving away my advantage of basic common sense and strategy, but a recent string of exceptionally poor teams suggests that some common sense is just not that common and some strategy distribution would increase the enjoyment of play.  Lately, winning has been a matter of "are you one the noob team that gets run over or the other team" as takeing down 5 enemies myself has been 10 short of victory.
  Knowing and doing are two very different things.  Even armed with this knowledge, I suspect few will be able to properly perform the action.

Quote

Good article on tactics.  I've been playing for 5 months and still learning the game, but one thing this article says puzzles me.  If I'm in my T-40 with a 500m view range and next to me is a Hertzer with a 325m view range (both have binocs) I will light up a tank within 500m and 'radio' the tanks position to the tanks within my radio range. So the Hertzer should be able to fire upon the target I spotted until he goes out of my view range, right?  This article says that is not the case. It says the StugIII should hold fire until the KV2 has the target within their view range.  I think this is wrongly stated in the article.
I know when I'm in my Hertzer, I can fire on a target out of my view range until it goes out of the range of the tank that spotted the target.  Or am I missing something? And if I'm right, this changes some of the strategy.
Comments?
It's not regarding VIEW range, it's regarding firing accuracy.  StugIII and Hertzer should be fine at range, it's Hertzer and some stump cannon "derp gun" that this tactic is referring to as it would be unlikely to hit anything at the range of your cannon, but can eliminate enemies entirely at close range.  This suggests you position behind the derp gunner and/or wait until the enemies get close enough for the derp to engage properly before you open up.  Otherwise they just all shoot you down while your derp perhaps shoots a few missed shots at them.

Edited by Pestilencemage, Nov 03 2013 - 14:35.


Frostopper #30 Posted Nov 03 2013 - 21:36

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@Pestilence
<--- Case in point

View PostGreasyTony, on Nov 03 2013 - 11:26, said:

Good article on tactics.  I've been playing for 5 months and still learning the game, but one thing this article says puzzles me.  If I'm in my T-40 with a 500m view range and next to me is a Hertzer with a 325m view range (both have binocs) I will light up a tank within 500m and 'radio' the tanks position to the tanks within my radio range. So the Hertzer should be able to fire upon the target I spotted until he goes out of my view range, right?  This article says that is not the case. It says the StugIII should hold fire until the KV2 has the target within their view range.  I think this is wrongly stated in the article.
I know when I'm in my Hertzer, I can fire on a target out of my view range until it goes out of the range of the tank that spotted the target.  Or am I missing something? And if I'm right, this changes some of the strategy.
Comments?
KV2 is supposedly 'wildly inaccurate' at 500 meters.
.
With HE splash-dmg, its rather hefty explosion is "good enough" to make the enemy drop their trousers in anticipation of a good butt-kicking.
.
Once they get within spot-range of KV-2 (when firing, so about 380-/+20 meters), KV must hold-fire to ensure a killshot. Hetzer may continue firing until reaching spot range of non-firing KV-2. After firing, both KV and hetz should strongly consider repositioning in order to force advancing OPFOR to expose themselves as much as possable (most tanks hesitate to expose themselves when they've been under whithering-fire from multiple unspotted tanks).

Edited by Frostopper, Nov 03 2013 - 21:39.


Myeq #31 Posted Nov 03 2013 - 23:29

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Great article!  It shows me, once again, that map knowledge is one of the critical success factors in WoT.  Not just where to go on each map, but which bush is the correct one for each sections on a map.  After 3000 battles, there is still so much to learn to become an effective tanker!!

WeaponsCrate #32 Posted Nov 04 2013 - 06:14

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View PostFrostopper, on Nov 02 2013 - 19:48, said:

Mapped example:
Posted Image
I know you know this map.
Snipers usually go around C6 or D7, hill-climbers and brawlers like to go to A-line.
The snipers have clear LOS to A3, but are blocked from hitting anything at A2 or A4.
-More often than not, the friendlies gather and hold A3, pinning the reds in a zone all those TDs (as much as 10 per battle) in a place they cannot hit.
So this leaves three main options:
1. Guys on hill push and spot targets in A1, where the snipers can devestate their TDs.
2. Guys on hill pull-back to A4, allowing all those lovely KV-1Ss to crest at A3 and get derp-spammed from 420 meters.
3. Snipers (including KV-2s) must reposition and engage alternate targets and/or ignore the main thrust
Just a little thing I noticed in tank-companies once, informed the caller our hellcats had 'no-shots', and suggested pulling-back. Enemy lost 5 KV-1S in 10 seconds, and was forced to rely entirely on rushing their hellcats at our flanks.
-This ended in a last-stand between one of our Su-100s and a trio of bleeding hellkittens in A6 crossroads.
That's what I tell people all the time on that map from the north side, but the prevailing notion seems to be: "grab as much land as you can before you die" and refuse to pull back to an area where the snipers from the hill behind them have a clear sight.

Saber555 #33 Posted Nov 04 2013 - 06:55

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this is all very worthwild info but the problem is u wont realy see any one doing this unless u are in the 360 beta. every one dose the same thing every round it is kinda pathetic how predictable it is. the few times i have seen any thing dif thay normaly win if there are like three or more doing it. what ever it is at the time.

AUBfanatic #34 Posted Nov 04 2013 - 12:23

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View PostRufusLeaking, on Nov 02 2013 - 20:22, said:

I would not play WOT in a cookie cutter environment, however, I would enjoy closer MM than 95% of the games provide. In regards to your accusations concerning illegal mods, I am curious if that is true. I see those accusations on the ingame chat but have never experienced it.

Yes, please tell us all how one would go about running so called 'illegal mods' on a server side game such as this? You would think that a replay of this activity would have surfaced by now if there were any merit to the all too common complaint from the average player base.

ionviol2 #35 Posted Nov 04 2013 - 14:10

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Fantastic article. Thank you, Chieftain!

Submarine_Wahoo #36 Posted Nov 04 2013 - 15:50

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Understanding where to make a stand is often forgotten until withdrawal is an impossible option (the Chieftain's "Die-in-Place" position). I try to take this into account in pub matches, though I will admit that I make the wrong decisions on a number of occasions, including just last night. But they say experience is the best teacher.

Excellent overview of the importance of positioning.

Gui1997 #37 Posted Nov 04 2013 - 16:28

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Very useful and obvious article, I remember when i get my AMX 12t and kill 4 or 5 tier 8 guys when they are shooting another tank with more armor and I get on they flanks and unload my clip of 6 shots on them... But sometimes it cant be done because of a idiot team that get killed in the 2 first minutes and I got to fight againist a lot of heavies shooting at me... Those articles dont have a use if those idiots dont saw them...

Cadesh #38 Posted Nov 04 2013 - 17:36

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I usually work with "fall back" positions, a new position, back some meters, can this be considered an Alternate position? You are in the same sector of fire but giving ground to the enemy.

In this situation, most times I break contact for some seconds to try to keep the enemy away so I can get advantage of greater view range, camouflage and gun precision.

by the way, nice post.

Kill_Switch #39 Posted Nov 04 2013 - 17:54

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This article probably has more validity for clan play but in a random battle there is not enough cooperation among players for it to matter. Furthermore, arty strikes much more quickly than 15 seconds. Try about 5 seconds, and it is not inaccurate but deadly accurate, as though it has satellite spotting. If you stop for even a second and the other team's arty is on its toes, you are dead. More than once I have barely finished firing before I was dead.

Arty needs to be taken out of the game so that when we play a game about tank battles, we can actually fight tank battles. Give arty its own game and let them blow each other up till their heart's content so tactical doctrine becomes more important and relevant.

Kill_Switch #40 Posted Nov 04 2013 - 22:59

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View PostGui1997, on Nov 04 2013 - 16:28, said:

Very useful and obvious article, I remember when i get my AMX 12t and kill 4 or 5 tier 8 guys when they are shooting another tank with more armor and I get on they flanks and unload my clip of 6 shots on them... But sometimes it cant be done because of a idiot team that get killed in the 2 first minutes and I got to fight againist a lot of heavies shooting at me... Those articles dont have a use if those idiots dont saw them...

I constantly find myself outflanked and surrounded by teammates getting themselves killed off, sometimes at an incredible rate. No matter how good you are, or how maneuverable, you can't survive long under these circumstances. It would be nice if everyone would read these articles and try to behave as a team, rather than every man for himself. The teams where people work together are so few and far between.




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