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The_Chieftain #1 Posted Sep 19 2013 - 00:12

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In the picture above the oval of green dots indicates the impact zone within which the shell is liable to impact. Remember, the shell does not impact straight down, hence the elongated shape. As a result, if  the round was going to impact with the ground just behind the MkIV, it quite likely would actually impact the turret. If the MkIV does not move in the next second and a half or so, it is quite liable to receive a 150mm round, and, of course, it has no way of knowing it. This seems a little harsh at first but the big picture says otherwise. Note the picture below.
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This is the same MkIV being targeted some ten seconds earlier.  You will note that the impact zone is huge. The round is far more likely to land anywhere except on the target vehicle. Not to say it won’t, as lucky shots do happen, but the artillery gunner pulling the trigger with this sight picture would be an exercise of optimism over expectation. Every time the SPG moves its hull, the probable impact zone expands to maximum. As most artillery pieces tend to have very narrow arcs of fire, this generally means that the gunner needs to reset his (or her!) aim almost every time it acquires a new target or his current target moves a significant lateral distance relative to the SPG. As a result, SPGs tend to have much lower rates of fire than the stats would lead one to expect. Not only do they tend to have a long reload time (over 30 seconds for some of the larger pieces), but they also need to spend significant time (ten seconds or more) just aiming. As a result, artillerymen love stationary targets.
When you do feel the need to be stationary for anything more than about fifteen seconds (not that you can’t get hit in less!), you still have options. Hide, or use cover.  Hiding needs little explanation: Use concealment to prevent enemy scouts or vehicles from detecting you.
Cover takes advantage of the fact that, though artillery does come down from above, it does not do so vertically. See the example below.
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You will note that the green ‘impact zone’ is on the rock formation to the right of the tank. This tank is fully shielded from the artillery at its current point of aim. Of course, the gunner can aim a little towards the front of the target, and likely hit or damage  the tank by near miss if the tank stays still for much longer, but then the tank can also move to hug the cover a little more tightly.
So, as artillery, what can you do to counter?
This ought to be a pretty familiar view to any artilleryman who’s played on the Malinovka map.
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The MkVI is taking cover, confident in the knowledge that artillery, in their usual firing positions, cannot touch him. The solution as a gunner is simple. Move: You are self-propelled artillery for a reason. A good team in Malinovka can clear the way to relocate to a better firing position.
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Many tankers have had their feeling of invulnerability shattered by being heavily damaged or destroyed by artillery that they ‘knew’ shouldn’t have been able to hit them. Recall what was said about stationary targets: This Tiger driver stayed in the same defensive location so long that the artillery was able to drive half-way across the map to get the correct angle.
The other thing to note about moving as an arty-driver is that enemy scouts will usually go first to where the artillery players tend to set up near the deployment zone. Remember, as artillery, you are a priority target. The best way to avoid having enemy artillery hit you when the scout sees you is to prevent the scout from finding you in the first place. When found, your survival chances are very low indeed.
Personal observations for arty players: This is a way of doing things, not [/I]the[/I] way of doing things.
1) Don't hang out in the spawn zone. If you're in a slow arty, you'll be shooting less frequently as you're moving, but it is worth it to go somewhere else. Moving well away from where you started means that enemy scouts will be hunting for a while before they find you.
2) When conducting 1), as long as the ballistic arc allows for it, you should be as close to the front line for all arties as you feel safe. Especially if you're in something with a wide arc of fire. This is for four reasons.
a) Shorter time of flight. Especially useful for hitting those peek-a-boom or evading targets.
b) Much smaller area covered by the impact circle/oval, meaning far more chance of a hit.
c) You are probably going to open up new angles of fire on targets (especially across the map) who think they're safe from the usual artillery haunts.
d) If an enemy scout gets through the front lines, not only are you not in the first place they look, you are also much closer to help from your friends.
3) Try to get an 'angle'. Don't just drive from spawn to the front line, move laterally to obtain new angles on targets which otherwise would be obscured.
4) Choose your targets wisely. Sometimes it is better to take a weak gun out of the fight than do major damage to a heavy. You can affect one of multiple engagements, you are a force multiplier. Always keep an eye out for an intelligent scout on your side who is pinging a request for fire. Knock out the obstacle for him, and he may go marauding.
5) Arty is far better at cracking defensive positions than at helping with defense. I usually believe in supporting the attack anyway, as I believe victory goes to the side with initiative, and the more help the initiative gets, the more successful the team is.
6) If you see a useful target cowering behind cover in an attempt to be "Arty safe", consider moving a little to open an angle to hit him. Don't worry if you lose the spot, just aim where he was last seen. Such players tend to be stationary, and are likely to still be there, take the blind shot.
7) If you have the credits to burn, consider randomly lobbing shots at likely locations if there are no spotted targets. You get no extra XP for hit rate or bringing ammo home. Even if a target appears the second after you pull the trigger, usually by the time your aiming circle has shrunk on the new target, your round is loaded again anyway.
8) Minimap. Minimap. Minimap. Chances are you have a little more time for Situational Awareness than most of your team. It will help you choose targets, and you can call pieces of information to your colleagues who may be too busy to play close attention.
9) This is related to #2. If you find yourself in a fight for your survival against a scout or medium, 3 time out of 4 you will lose and die. Usually it's not worth the attempt. Instead, find the nearest green guy, and drive at him as fast as possible like a panicked schoolgirl while screaming for help. He may not come back to help you, but If you bring the scout to him, he could scratch your back. You are much more likely to make it, especially in a slow arty, if you're closer to your friends to begin with.

tatics #2 Posted Oct 12 2013 - 19:22

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very very helpful!


Puppies_Of_Pestilence #3 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 04:07

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Good advice, but at the same time if your team is able to spot a tank camping base behind a building long enough for you to drive your arty half way across the map on Malinovka so you can destroy them then both teams are doing something horribly, horribly, wrong.

Chaosheavens #4 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 04:31

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on Sep 19 2013 - 00:12, said:

-snip-
9) This is related to #2. If you find yourself in a fight for your survival against a scout or medium, 3 time out of 4 you will lose and die. Usually it's not worth the attempt. Instead, find the nearest green guy, and drive at him as fast as possible like a panicked schoolgirl while screaming for help. He may not come back to help you, but If you bring the scout to him, he could scratch your back. You are much more likely to make it, especially in a slow arty, if you're closer to your friends to begin with.

This gave me a good laugh, the rest of it is something that 'arty players' should know by common sense, or I would hope so at least, great post none the less

Valan #5 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 08:41

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Not every artillery gun arc is the same, which will end up effecting how and where ones aims.   For example the British Conqueror Gun Carriage is quite distinctive: less of an oval, and more of a circle shaped aiming target.  Why? Gun fire arc can be more steeply angled, relative to its peers at Tier 10.  (It somewhat similar to the pre-nerfed SU-5 with the big gun's fire arc.)


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Source of chart.

Flametz #6 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 08:46

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Yes that orange button was very inviting indeed ( more out of curiosity as to what others would post about this)

Gruffard #7 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 08:59

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Most of these make sense. But I add one about if there is multiple arties on your team Try to set up in different areas so you have different angles. As a scout and sometimes arty it annoys me when two sit together and neither can fire at priority targets and if one bothered to move East some could

PumaAC #8 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 09:11

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Good post for new self-propelled artillery operators to learn from.  The devil is in the details for more experienced artillerymen, but thanks Chieftan for posting the short suggestion packet and no doubt new players not driving SPGs can learn from it too for avoiding artillery shells.

Scootalove #9 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 09:32

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Thank you Chieftain.  I mean, sure, I loved that tanks forgot that they have to move to avoid arty fire, but thats selfish of me.  Hopefully, more people will both try out artillery and learn to be arty safe.

Omartadorr #10 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 09:40

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good post very ty

masuhara #11 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 10:27

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this is a good read for anyone just begging to play  wot.  I would suggest they do another thread about how to play on a team with artys.  taking aggressive positions when you have two or more artillery  on your team for example, rather then camping at base leaving no buffer for the arty's.   waiting for the arty to reload after a skirmish before  advancing to new positions.    I would like to see them address some of the problems with high tier arty.  mainly bouncing direct hit ap shells. firing an ap shell is risky enough as is due to the horrible accuracy, costly reload times and the need for a direct hit in order to have a chance at doing damage.  all of the risks and no reward because an artillery shell fired across the map with terminal velocity, directly hit an enemy tank and harmless bounced off of its armor.  if you fire 3 ap shells and miss every time you do no damage and are not helping your team, as well as wasting a good chunck of time in a 15 min game, considering the reload times.  please let us be rewarded for taking the risk of firing an ap shell with consistent close to listed damage if we manage to get a direct hit.  tier 9 and 10 arty's should have ap rounds with higher penetration so they don't bounce.  tier 10 arty's should still put the fear of god into tier 10 heavys.

another closely related topic I would like to bring up is the intuition perk.  this perk is still to unreliable to use effectively as artillery even when two loaders have it.   because of the bouncing ap shell problem he shells are mostly used.  however when an opportunity arises to put a shell into the side or rear of a tank it would be nice to reliably switch to ap but this perk fails more often then not.  so much so that its a big risk in itself considering the reload times if it does not proc.  I believe this perk should be buffed to where if one loader has it, it will proc 50% of the time, two loaders have it 100% of the time.   considering the other skill options for loader are quite beneficial to all tanks except artillery.  I believe this would be the first step to help address the tier 10 bouncing shell problem

rdks #12 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 10:41

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View PostJagermech, on Oct 13 2013 - 09:32, said:

Thank you Chieftain.  I mean, sure, I loved that tanks forgot that they have to move to avoid arty fire, but thats selfish of me.  Hopefully, more people will both try out artillery and learn to be arty safe.

funny thing is.. it is easier for tanker noobs to complain arty is OP then to learn how to play the game and stay safe.  I love arty.. and i play maps differently when there is arty vs no arty present when i am not arty.

tekteam26 #13 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 10:43

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Why do so many arty drivers camp in the 'coffin corners' in the map sheets? They have to know that that these will be the very FIRST places that enemy scouts will be looking, not to mention that those corners give the longest time of flight for their arty rounds. That means lower hit probabilities. Camping in those corners also means that the arty will be farther away from supporting units (though there are plenty of cowardly vultures certainly who also camp in the rear rather than be on the front lines supporting their teammates, waiting to pad their stats at the end of a battle that is lost already rather than helping win the battle)

LiVwj #14 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 11:05

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i want to

VenteRuma #15 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 11:09

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I have a few comments about this one as well, both as an experience artillery player, heavy and medium player.   The first one is  that if arti is 'calling' a target, OR you are screaming for help on a target......DON"T FACE HUG and expect artillery to help out!!!   If you are in my impact zone, I'm NOT firing....period, end of story.  I can't count how many times I've killed an enemy AFTER the friendly that was screaming for help was dead....because he was TOO close!!!!  By the same token, if you ARE going up against someone and know that  your own artillery is dead, or is looking at the other end of the map, then face hug them....you could save yourself from being hit by enemy artillery.    Minimap, Minimap, Minimap......I can't say this enough!!!!  Artillery players need to know what is going on, including that light that just blipped up on the flank and disappeared.....was he headed to the back???  Could he be a threat??  The other one is for the heavy and medium players.....you know where to hide from enemy artillery....now, how many of you pay attention enough to know where friendly artillery is and whether or not they have the angle?   If you peek, and peek, and peek around that mountain that artillery can't clear.....TRYING to kill that E100/Maus/IS7, etc......what happens if you pull back far enough to let them come around at you????    IF you tell artillery what you want, and what you are planning, they'll likely be zoomed in and ready!  If the other team is hiding artillery safe.....TRY to sucker them around so that they get hammered!!   How many of you have watched as artillery zapped that TD for 30% health....and within the next 5 seconds stuck your head out there to light him again???  Do a QUICK light.....but CAREFULLY because artillery hasn't had time to reload.  Pay attention, or better yet...ASK how long it takes arti to reload.  A good artillery player will know roughly how long their reload is, MOST have mods that tell exactly how long it is.   And lastly......MOST arti players do NOT fire on moving targets!!!   STAY MOVING!!!!!  If you stop, you could die!!!!  At the same time....be ready to track the enemy at least TWO or better yet, THREE times.....IF your artillery is reloaded.  Remember the aim time???  How long will it take a 100% Repairs trained crew to repair a track?? 5 seconds???  So figure 10 seconds to reload.....and then 3-5 seconds FLIGHT TIME....yeah, if you want him dead, track him multiple times.........

KapisaPanzerKrieg2010 #16 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 11:24

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Keep making these! The quality of the playerbase has taken a sharp dive, the more tutorials and guides the better.

IceOtter #17 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 11:37

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Sorry to spoil this "love-in" but I just can't get excited anymore about arty since the nerf.  Bottom line: the arty nerf has turned 85-90% of players into campers and cowards.  The nerf has made 80% of arty pieces functionally useless.  Maybe arty was OP before the nerf, I won't argue one way or the other, but castrating it was not a reasonable answer.  I play arty now to clear the research and earn badges - nothing more.  I used to truly love arty even though my win rates were never far north of 50% - well below my other win rates.  It used to mean something significant to play arty well - but not anymore.  If I get 2 kills in a game playing arty now I am overjoyed - and rarely I get 4 or 5.  Prior to the nerf I could rack up 9 kills.  Castrating arty and nerfing scouting via light tanks are two decisions that Wargaming got badly wrong.  They effectively destroyed two classes of vehicles.  Mediums are the survivable scouts now and arty is a sad sideshow - both classes are now a hollow shell of their former glory.  Give tips all you want on how to play these vehicles - it doesn't make them relevant again.

Redwing6 #18 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 11:40

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I suspect that WG's trigonomic model is...a bit off.  But then, I'm neither a mathematician, nor a programmer. But, arty should be a bit more accurate tthan is is portrayed in the game. In WW2 arty regularly broke up armoured assaults...

IDAK_ALPHA12 #19 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 11:50

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I enjoy playing arty. It is a good change of pace from tank battling. These tips are helpful and trust me no matter how long it takes to reload, I wish it would reload faster to help out those battles that look like our side is losing it's foothold. Knowing most of the maps now, I pretty much know where the battles will be and try to be ready long before our tanks are in position. With the aide of a scout or lead tank I am sometimes able to get some early damage done to the enemy. In a related topic, a dead scout helps no one. I see too often scouts get so far ahead of the platoon and running in wide open areas begging to be an easy score. Scouts are a great asset to arty, but only if you stay alive. A good scout can find cover and still lead us arties to the enemy.

TwoSpiders #20 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 12:19

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I personally only play 3 different arty pieces.

M7: Priest, which was nerfd from Tier 4 to Tier 3. I have had great accuracy with this gun in the past, however now with the changes and tier reduction it has become nearly scrap metal on the battlefield. The gun is adequate at 105mm and an aiming time of 5.5 seconds without buffers and MODS. The reload time is FAIR (on a scale of Good, Fair, Poor, Unrealistic) at 1 round every 20 seconds. I tend to see less SPLASH damage now with this gun on near misses. Also, in TD mode when used right before death, I find this gun tends to UNDERSHOOT the aimed target consistently, resulting in a miss.

M41: This gun is abysmal in a lot of ways. It is a Tier 5 and only has a fractional difference in HP Than the M7. ( M7 (140), M41 (230).  The accuracy of the M41 is non existent. I constantly get rounds that land way outside the aiming circle even when pausing several seconds after the reticle becomes it's smallest circumference. If it hits you, you will feel it. At 155mm, the gun has capability, just lacks in accuracy and reload time and aiming time, (Both are POOR). Reload time is 2.4 rounds per minute. Aiming time is supposed to be 7 seconds, however I find it is actually closer to 10. The speed on this vehicle is a multiplier at 56 kph which gives it shoot and move capabilities. In TD mode it has a very good chance at hitting the target. Closer is better.  

105 leFH18B2: This is a Premium SPG I bought on a test basis. It is by far the BEST of the 3 I own. It has the same 105mm as the M7 but has a much faster reload time (6.45 rounds a minute), accuracy is Good and aiming time is 5.1 seconds. This gun gets the job done! It is pretty much what an SPG piece should be. In TD mode it suffers greatly. Unless point blank, I have yet to hit anything in TD mode. The lob on this gun is too great even at 0 degrees of elevation. The gun has a natural elevation on the hull in rest mode.

I typically train my gun crews in Cammo first. I add the Cammo net as a standard MOD on all my SPG's. I also use the Gun rammer to assist my crew in reload time and finally I use the Enhanced gun laying drive to reduce aim time.

The points that Chief brings up are ALL very good. I have used everything he has mentioned and a couple of more. I will bring up something I have used to great effect on the battlefield.

COUNTER BATTERY: By definition, this is when you use your SPG to knock out the other teams SPG without seeing it. I will call for it in some cases when I go into battle but typically I get no answer or response from my SPG team mates. Here is how it works. As an SPG I know what areas on a map my counterparts are likely to select as a firing position. I pre-select that area on the map and do not zoom in. I wait until the SPG fires a round and look for the tracer or smoke trail leaving the gun. Usually behind a bush, or rock or building and sometimes in a depression of terrain. I then zoom in, aim just a little behind the spot and fire. BOOM! Dead enemy SPG. This takes practice and patience, however if you are successful, you knock out the enemy SPG early in fight. Some things to remember when using this tactic. 1. Your gun is dedicated to an area of the battlefield that may have no targets and your team is expecting your support in another area, usually RIGHT NOW DAMMIT! 2. The accuracy of your gun is less, because you don't actually SEE your target, you are firing at a spot on the map. But I usually get splash damage even if I miss. 3. If you are off of your suspected area you can usually HEAR the SPG fire, just scan a little bit along your map in zoomed out mode and wait until they fire again. Locate the smoke trail and then aim. It does take a bit of practice. If you have a buddy go to a training room, find a position you would use as a firing point, tell your buddy to SHIFT to that area and watch, then you fire a round and he should be able to see your position, just not you.

Another thing that I have noticed affecting the accuracy of my gun on targets is the terrain I select to position my gun. If you are on Flat level terrain, you gun has a set elevation and declination. If you are on a bit of a rise or even a sloped terrain facing uphill, your gun lob is a bit more arc'd. This gives the round a bit of a cheat in it's drop. I shouldn't need to say it, but I will. If your gun is facing down slope, your round has a very high chance of hitting the ground not too far in front of you. Just saying. Also, if your target is hugging sloped terrain and the rise of that terrain is closer to you, you have a very good chance of over shooting your aiming circle and missing your target. This is geometry at it's best. Again, knowing your map and how terrain affects your gun position is crucial to target selection.

On a lighter note. This is a story I will relate that happened while I was stationed in Germany many years ago. A news reporter was speaking with a German farmer. This was near Graffenwoer Germany, which is a very large LIVE FIRE RANGE.
Reporter: Sir, we notice there are some large craters in your field over there, can you tell us what happend?
Farmer: Yes, yes. I was out in my tractor spreading manure for my Sugar Beets and an Artillery Shell landed in my field.
Reporter: Oh my god! That must have been very frightening to you!
Farmer: No, no. I was in the Field artillery in WWII and I know that sometimes a round will go long or fall short. This happens from time to time you see.
Reporter: Well, there are two craters in your field sir, what did you do when the second shell landed?
Farmer: I ran like hell!

Happy Hunting!  :teethhappy:




I equate this to musket fire, if you could load and fire a musket at a rate of 3 rounds a minute, you were considered very good. The difference being, muskets usually fought line abreast. Which brings up the next mini topic.




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