Jump to content


Detail Page: Depression Angle


  • Please log in to reply
113 replies to this topic

The_Chieftain #1 Posted Sep 20 2013 - 01:48

    Military Specialist

  • Administrator
  • 10262 battles
  • 9,628
  • [WGA-A] WGA-A
  • Member since:
    09-08-2011

*
POPULAR

Apparently not having much else to do with their time, the British Army decided to cut one of its tanks in two. They chose a Centurion. Excellent idea, as it means that we can see the interior of the turret rather well.
Posted Image
As you can see, it’s a fairly tall tank, with plenty of room for the loader to stand. Quite comfortable, one may even say. What is more important for our purposes, however, is the question of how high the turret roof interior is compared to the trunnions (The pivot point of the gun). As the front of the gun goes down, you can see that there’s a fair amount of room for the breech end to go up. The other factor is how far back from the trunnions the breech block goes during the recoil process: A long recoil stroke combined with a long length of gun behind the trunnions means that depression becomes more limited as you need more room for the gun to move back before it hits the turret roof. Higher-powered guns in lighter vehicles usually results in a longer recoil stroke to spread out the recoil over time.
Centurion, being a tank with a fairly high turret, has a maximum depression of the gun of 10 degrees. Compare with T-54, however, and you will see that the distance from the gun to the turret roof of T-54 is much shorter than the equivalent distance in Centurion. It is an uncomfortable tank. The result of this is that T-54 will only depress to 5 degrees.
Incidentally, it is for a similar reason that the hugely uncomfortable Jgdpz38(t) has such a limited ability to traverse to the left: With the gun already being mounted on the right side of the hull, attempting to aim the gun to the left would very quickly result in the breech recoil guard impacting the right wall of the hull.
Here's how this works on a practical level.  Here are vehicles, side by side. T-54 on the left, Dicker Max on the right.
Posted Image
As you can see, the T-54 is the smaller vehicle. Being smaller, it is harder to hit in open country: If you have to attack, it's the vehicle you would want to be in.
However, things become more interesting when the vehicles are on undulating terrain. Imagine, for example, an enemy is detected on the far side of a hill. The Dicker Max moves up until the gun tube is cleared.
Posted Image
T-54, however, has a problem:
Posted Image
As you can see, T-54 is a much bigger target, the entire vehicle is exposed. Here's what's happening from the side. The area between the two yellow lines is the visible target form.
Posted Image
Posted Image
As the T-54 can only depress 5 degrees, it had to roll -over- the crest of the hill which had a greater than 5 degree downslope on the far side. Not only did it have to expose the entire vehicle, it also had to be exposed for far longer before it could take the shot. The Dicker Max, on the other hand, can depress 15 degrees (Note how the breech is higher than the roofline), and so as soon as the gun tube is above the crestline, the TD can shoot, using the terrain for cover.
This demonstrates the value of one of the most important 'hidden' stats in the game. (It's not truly hidden, the WoT Wiki gives a fair idea)

Heavymarin106 #2 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 18:48

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 6579 battles
  • 105
  • Member since:
    06-11-2012
Love the, "Click the linky thing" xD.  Good job on the guide.   :smile:

Eleven_Hotel #3 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 18:55

    Captain

  • Players
  • 80227 battles
  • 1,111
  • [VETS1] VETS1
  • Member since:
    02-03-2012
Love the Cut-a-Way. Good job Nick.  I have been trying to explain this to some others Gamers and some don't grasp the concept.

Slayer_Jesse #4 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 18:56

    Major

  • Players
  • 26846 battles
  • 9,110
  • [SAKU] SAKU
  • Member since:
    08-31-2013
last weeks and this weeks articles are why i love my t29 so much lol.

FireAnt333 #5 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 18:56

    Major

  • Players
  • 21020 battles
  • 2,773
  • [FD_UP] FD_UP
  • Member since:
    08-02-2012
Okay, I clicked the linky thing. What do I do now?  :hiding:

In all seriousness, this is a great review. I've always known that gun depression was important, but this outlines how much of an advantage it can give you, and the cost it sometimes comes at.

A_Midget_Walrus #6 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 19:05

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 5240 battles
  • 193
  • [BOS-M] BOS-M
  • Member since:
    05-12-2013
This was a pretty interesting and useful bit of info on gun depression,and how it is calculated.

smitemeister #7 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 19:07

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 20359 battles
  • 51
  • Member since:
    08-10-2012
Great example using the D-Max. Using the awesome gun depression on the crest of a hill is why I'm learning to love this TD:
http://wotreplays.co...r_na-dicker_max

Edited by smitemeister, Oct 05 2013 - 19:12.


razzi123 #8 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 19:13

    Major

  • Players
  • 26695 battles
  • 3,642
  • [GUNS6] GUNS6
  • Member since:
    12-13-2011
One would be amazed at how many players that should read this, dont even log in to the forums or read the newsy stuff on the main page. *sigh* Good read tho, Reinforces what I already do know. ^w^


Who know..maybe there should be a mandatory day in each week to read the forums to all nooblets that have a sub 50% overall WR

nublex #9 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 19:14

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 17549 battles
  • 2,992
  • Member since:
    01-05-2011
Centurion's ammo rack is right in the middle of the tank, not stripe onto the driver.

Personality #10 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 19:22

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 8660 battles
  • 180
  • [KURO] KURO
  • Member since:
    01-24-2013
lmao chef, you were just complaining about the 110's lack of depression on the game yesterday. coincidence?~

carlzyy #11 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 19:24

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 6977 battles
  • 328
  • Member since:
    02-23-2011
I'm a Chinese tank and I find this offensive.

Frostopper #12 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 19:28

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 17417 battles
  • 850
  • [S0R] S0R
  • Member since:
    08-14-2013
Yeah, IIRC: the soviet tanks often lacked gun depression, as it was often assumed their forces would either have enough time to do some extensive landscaping (1 in 5 tanks had a dozer-blade specificly to ram-dig keyholes into hills and berms for their platoon-mates, sometimes even 1-in-3), or that shots would be lobbed to such a range (because: Spetsnaz-spotters) that gun-depression would be 'unecessary'.
But since maps are only 800 meters wide....
Irony is... I most feel this gun-elevation/depression issue, of all tanks, in the KV-2, and the open-topped Su-85B.
----
An interesting way around this is to build a peek-a-boo ramp (driving parallel to the ridge used as cover) or use the hill behind the hill to shoot (counter-slope plus angling and dangling).
Or, if you've -somehow- got yourself into a massive crater, instead of climbing it head-on, pop out the side and only expose the corner of your turret for ultimate hull-down.
----
Soviet tanks are not to be driven like western tanks, ever.
Seeing a properly hulled-down KV-2 (with only the muzzle and 25% of the turret exposed) is a sight to behold

Edited by Frostopper, Oct 05 2013 - 19:41.


Alexthetank1 #13 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 19:30

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 20598 battles
  • 52
  • [SBN-N] SBN-N
  • Member since:
    04-29-2012
The IS-3, however, have the same problem, which is why i sold it.

Harjet #14 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 19:31

    Private

  • Players
  • 40900 battles
  • 3
  • [RDDT] RDDT
  • Member since:
    11-23-2012
Great article.  But it begs the question of WHY it's a hidden stat?!  This information is available to most people through online reserach, so it's not a secret.  But casual players will have no idea that it even exists.  Why punish casuals by hiding stats that are available to some?  newbies already get seal clubbed plenty, there's no reason to handicap them by hiding information from them.

Alexthetank1 #15 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 19:31

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 20598 battles
  • 52
  • [SBN-N] SBN-N
  • Member since:
    04-29-2012
But i like the T-54, even with its lack of gun depression, its still a funny tank.

CrazyHeinz #16 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 19:33

    Major

  • Players
  • 12296 battles
  • 2,213
  • Member since:
    10-30-2012
As always, great presentation. The concept is relatively simple, but the photographs and your description hammer it home.

Shatara422 #17 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 19:41

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 9722 battles
  • 537
  • Member since:
    07-18-2011

View PostHarjet, on Oct 05 2013 - 19:31, said:

Great article.  But it begs the question of WHY it's a hidden stat?!  This information is available to most people through online reserach, so it's not a secret.  But casual players will have no idea that it even exists.  Why punish casuals by hiding stats that are available to some?  newbies already get seal clubbed plenty, there's no reason to handicap them by hiding information from them.
They don't want us to be confused by facts.

RearAdmiral_Butts #18 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 19:44

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 20433 battles
  • 602
  • [ESPRT] ESPRT
  • Member since:
    08-14-2011
Well presented.

But depression or not, evil fascist vehicle "Dicker Max" have only 169 penetration, subject to glorious Soviet RNG calculation, so even firing at glorious example of proletarian workmanship, medium tank T-54, Hitlerist cannon will ricochet off glorious sloped Soviet armor , even if it exposed on crest of hill.  German butchers driving "Dicker Max," too, have only 50mm inferior fascist armor, without Soviet slope.  And sterling prize of Soviet factory worker, medium tank T-54, have incomparable 100mm gun, prize of Soviet Russian factory design, which have 350 HEAT penetration, as well as fast-rotating glorious Soviet impenetrable sloped turret .  

In confrontation here, brave T-54 will easily crest hill, ricochet shell from evil fascist invader in "hull-down position", swing behind him and penetrate armor easily using incomparable 100mm gun, prize of Soviet Russian factory design.

Thus, superior depression of Hitlerist open-top devil-vehicle have no effect on brilliant T-54, comrade!

Iron_Tsunami #19 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 19:46

    Major

  • Players
  • 35978 battles
  • 3,017
  • [MOVE] MOVE
  • Member since:
    04-29-2012
Gun depression.

The best quality a vehicle can have. It can make up for almost any disadvantage.



Gun Depression > Armor

Gun Depression > Speed

Gun Depression > Agility

Gun Depression > Camo Factor

:bajan:

Iron_Tsunami #20 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 19:50

    Major

  • Players
  • 35978 battles
  • 3,017
  • [MOVE] MOVE
  • Member since:
    04-29-2012

View PostGeneral_von_Nuben, on Oct 05 2013 - 19:44, said:

Well presented.

But depression or not, evil fascist vehicle "Dicker Max" have only 169 penetration, subject to glorious Soviet RNG calculation, so even firing at glorious example of proletarian workmanship, medium tank T-54, Hitlerist cannon will ricochet off glorious sloped Soviet armor ™, even if it exposed on crest of hill.  German butchers driving "Dicker Max," too, have only 50mm inferior fascist armor, without Soviet slope.  And sterling prize of Soviet factory worker, medium tank T-54, have incomparable 100mm gun, prize of Soviet Russian factory design, which have 350 HEAT penetration, as well as fast-rotating glorious Soviet impenetrable sloped turret ™.  

In confrontation here, brave T-54 will easily crest hill, ricochet shell from evil fascist invader in "hull-down position", swing behind him and penetrate armor easily using incomparable 100mm gun, prize of Soviet Russian factory design.

Thus, superior depression of Hitlerist open-top devil-vehicle have no effect on brilliant T-54, comrade!

Fascist Dicker Max does not see battle with Glorious Soviet, T-54, unless in an evil, Nazi Fail-platoon.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users