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DanielWTang #101 Posted Oct 08 2013 - 14:26

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View PostSukyake, on Oct 06 2013 - 20:44, said:

Just wondering...

Take a look on Type 59, T-54 and WZ-120.

The T-54 and the WZ-120 using those 100mm guns got only 5º of gun depression. The WZ-120 got only 3º using that powerful 122mm gun.

But then... you got the Type 59 with 7º of gun depression... isn't that a little... intriguing?

There was this one time when they nerfed the gun depression of Type 59 from 7º to 5º. People had gone nuts and they had to retract that nerf.

Dunfalach #102 Posted Oct 09 2013 - 00:20

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My poor KV-4 is a victim of the long recoil, I guess? Such a tall turret and such sad gun depression. :(

Frostopper #103 Posted Oct 10 2013 - 01:50

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...
.
I'm tempted to get some screenshots of how to get a Type T-34's -5 to hull down over a ridge before an M4 Sherman's -12 can.
.
And yes. I've done it. A bit more terrain-sensitive, though.
.
-Caveat: Although you won't be able to hit the bottom of the slope, gotta commit to the tactical hillcrest* for that.
*Def: Tactical hillcrest is the highest point from the hill from where you can plunk rounds into the base of the hill from.

Edited by Frostopper, Oct 10 2013 - 01:53.


baptank #104 Posted Oct 12 2013 - 01:16

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View Postcaueducn, on Oct 05 2013 - 22:23, said:

lol, some of u may heard of the Depression Angle Limitator, hereinafter referred to as the DAL, whoes purpose is to make sure the backlashing gun breech and cartridge case wont hit the turret ceiling when recoil.........its like a toothed wedge in the gun elevating machnism, and u will have a decent depression angle if have the“devilish gadget”temporarily removed :trollface:  .
  Doubtfully thought if its true, i consulted some ex-crews who fought in type59 (a chinese variant of T-54) during the 1979 border skirmish with vietnam if there any DALs were removed for depressionangle buff. The answers were instantly and firmly given as " yes, almost all crewteams did it; and the only thing u needed was just a wrench.....once u have done, the type59's max d-angle would be at negative 9-11°, which was better adaptive in karst terrain " :playing: " and plus there wanst any case like gun breech hit the ceiling when recoil cuz the it was still far from ceiling  :teethhappy: "
  lol, i wondor if we can have that DAL removed with a comsumable repairkit, just temporarily for a better d-angle :trollface:

What a great idea. Goes right along with extras coffee or coke. Of course there are probably many other tanks with similar mods that where crew initiated.

shapeshifter #105 Posted Oct 12 2013 - 02:13

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I now realize why the V/IV can't aim down. the crew stores all their crap above the breech.

Spoiler                     


Frostopper #106 Posted Oct 12 2013 - 18:12

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That, and germans liked using ridiculously lol-long cartridge cases designed in the first world war with overall lengths exceeding a meter long (kwk43's case-length alone, was over 820mm; the 7.5cm PaK40 had case-length exceeding 740mm*), requiring an always-impressive gun-recoil, that, and more deck-slamming.
-See those driver's optics? See that muzzle-brake? They don't like being next to each other.
IIRC: the Americans made a point to angle the rear of the engine-deck of the Sherman-series by 15 degees and used shorter cartridges to avoid it (apparently, this was simpler than designing and maintaining a dynamic trunnion-block). Nearly every other tank in-game has a flat-deck.

*In comparision, the 100mm D-10T, had a case-length of 695mm.

Edited by Frostopper, Oct 12 2013 - 18:38.


baptank #107 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 14:01

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View PostFrostopper, on Oct 10 2013 - 01:50, said:

...
.
I'm tempted to get some screenshots of how to get a Type T-34's -5 to hull down over a ridge before an M4 Sherman's -12 can.
.
And yes. I've done it. A bit more terrain-sensitive, though.
.
-Caveat: Although you won't be able to hit the bottom of the slope, gotta commit to the tactical hillcrest* for that.
*Def: Tactical hillcrest is the highest point from the hill from where you can plunk rounds into the base of the hill from.

I know I would like to see the screen shots. Probably lots of other folks too.
I am starting to get an understanding of just how complicated it is to become really good at this game. People sharing there knowledge makes the game more interesting and fun every day.
Thanks

Frostopper #108 Posted Oct 13 2013 - 19:50

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Yeah, even in WW2 the soviets placed great emphasis on their combat-engineers to ensure the land their tanks fought on was to their liking. To my knowledge, they still place great emphasis on terraforming the battlefield in the middle of combat.
-To the point that they issued body-armor to their sappers in Stalingrad. The SN-42 (only really proof againast the MP-40 and shrapnel, not sniper-rifles). It provided minimal protection against mines blowing-off arms and legs.

Anyways, the easist way to explain it until I can get ahold of an M4 Sherman-driver, is to imagine a situation where you come to a cul-de-sac in a valley or other low-area, and there's a metric-hurtload of tanks immediately above your lil soviet DPM-machine.
-Rather than cross your fingers and pull right up, pick a side-slope and drive close to perpindicular to your gun-lay, keeping the enemy 'above' you; that should keep the enemy tanks inside your fire-arc while minimizing your exposure to just the turret and maybe the odd bit of hull rather than cresting.
-The downslope also makes retreat into cover just that much faster, too.
-Never EVER let there be a tank 'below' your tank when side-cresting this way, you won't be able to hit them and gain no cover.
Another is to reverse-slope, or double-slope. This is to point the tank away from the hill the enemy is on, and climb up a slope behind the hill until you can get a lay on the enemy tanks. This is like dialing long-distance with a hull-down, and is best immagined as placing a deep trench between the pad the firing-tank sits on, and the breastwork/hill providing cover. If the tank were a person, this is like leaning on the back of the trench to get a shot, rather than the typical lean-forwards. This sort of dedfilade is easier to flank, since your cover is closer to the enemy than would otherwise be necessary (and as such, is generally not recommended, because just about any other means of hull-down is safer). The reason why one points away and uphill is to keep your engine-deck from being an inviting-target.
Well, that's the theory. It works in the regard that I can shoot other tanks while making myself a little harder to hit in an otherwise unwinnable situation. So my kills/game ratio is slowly climbing, because I find myself in this sort of problem quite a bit.

what happens when I try this in a random pubbie-match: (if I'm lucky)

Quote

Krotoshinsky: Where's the Cowboy going?
Lipasti: He must know something.
Krotoshinsky: You think so?
Lipasti: He's from Roadville, he grew up around trees. You've ever been around trees?
Krotoshinsky: They got trees in Union Square.
Lipasti: Those don't count.
R.I.P. Henry Miller/Irving Klein.
Edit:
I find it hilarious, that I went platooning, and saw a T-46 doing exactly what I described to get hull-down on me in Sand-river. Also, trulled a bunch of TOGs and Loewes with a T-28 (my 'toon-mate was only tier 4 scout). The dialouge that follows ammo-racking a tier 7 premium with a tier 4 is fun.

JPower #109 Posted Oct 17 2013 - 04:43

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View PostEleven_Hotel, on Oct 05 2013 - 19:57, said:

This is why I disliked the KV-13 so much.

Though the other day on Mountain Pass I held off 6 vehicles with my M4, because I was playing Peek-a-Boo while hull down.
Haha, gotta love the American tanks for that. Not sure, but it seems to me that the Sherman may have the best (or at least one of the best) gun depression in the game, along with amazing elevation

Volacious #110 Posted Oct 18 2013 - 21:10

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wouldn't be that hard to incorporate this concept and others into additional training missions.

hull_buster #111 Posted Nov 10 2013 - 02:53

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The more I read,the more I learn, the more lethal I'll eventually become!

Luissen #112 Posted Nov 10 2013 - 20:05

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View PostBlackhorse_Nine, on Oct 06 2013 - 19:24, said:

Kinda makes you wonder about all those tank-killing cupola-hits, doesn't it?

If I kill your radio operator hard enough, your tank explodes in sympathy...

TankerOfTheEast #113 Posted Sep 21 2014 - 21:59

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View PostGeneral_von_Nuben, on Oct 05 2013 - 19:44, said:

Well presented.

But depression or not, evil fascist vehicle "Dicker Max" have only 169 penetration, subject to glorious Soviet RNG calculation, so even firing at glorious example of proletarian workmanship, medium tank T-54, Hitlerist cannon will ricochet off glorious sloped Soviet armor , even if it exposed on crest of hill.  German butchers driving "Dicker Max," too, have only 50mm inferior fascist armor, without Soviet slope.  And sterling prize of Soviet factory worker, medium tank T-54, have incomparable 100mm gun, prize of Soviet Russian factory design, which have 350 HEAT penetration, as well as fast-rotating glorious Soviet impenetrable sloped turret .  

In confrontation here, brave T-54 will easily crest hill, ricochet shell from evil fascist invader in "hull-down position", swing behind him and penetrate armor easily using incomparable 100mm gun, prize of Soviet Russian factory design.

Thus, superior depression of Hitlerist open-top devil-vehicle have no effect on brilliant T-54, comrade!

 

The Worlds greatest post!

JABowders #114 Posted Mar 27 2015 - 20:02

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View PostLuissen, on Nov 10 2013 - 19:05, said:


If I kill your radio operator hard enough, your tank explodes in sympathy...

 

Because he dies and his hand hits the self destruct button...

 

Battle on!






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