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sp15 #1421 Posted Jul 26 2016 - 17:31

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And final part



sp15 #1422 Posted Aug 11 2016 - 19:46

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Sorry for the lack of content lately, i have been buisy doing other things and there really hasnt been much in the way of new stuff from the archives. Hopefully there will be some new stuff soon though but it will probably be mostly swiss stuff. In the meantime here is some stuff i think i forgot to post when we first found it.

 

Hägglunds Ikv m/ny proposals (1967)

 

Alt 1

Combat weight: 13500 kg

Length (gun forward): 8300 mm

Length (gun rearward): 7650 mm

Width: 3000 mm

Height: 1930 mm

Ground clearence: 400 mm

Crew: 4 men

Top speed: 80 kph

 

Hull dimentions

 

length: 5950 mm

width: 3000 mm

height: 1090 mm

Turret ring diameter: 2160 mm

 

Engine: Scania DS 11 (300 hp, diesel), Volvo TD 120 A (330 hp, diesel)

 

Armor


Edited by sp15, Aug 11 2016 - 19:51.


sp15 #1423 Posted Aug 11 2016 - 19:51

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Alt 2

Combat weight: 13100 kg

Length (gun forward): 8100 mm

Length (gun rearward): 7650 mm

Width: 3000 mm

Height: 1930 mm

Ground clearence: 400 mm

Crew: 4 men

Top speed: 80 kph

 

Hull dimentions

 

length: 5750 mm

width: 3000 mm

height: 1090 mm

Turret ring diameter: 2160 mm

 

Engine: Scania DS 11 (300 hp, diesel), Volvo TD 120 A (330 hp, diesel)



sp15 #1424 Posted Aug 11 2016 - 19:57

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Alt 3

Combat weight: 12900 kg

Length (gun forward): 6400 mm

Length (gun rearward): 9100 mm

Width: 3000 mm

Height: 1980 mm

Ground clearence: 400 mm

Crew: 4 men

Top speed: 75 kph

 

Hull dimentions

 

length: 5600 mm

width: 3000 mm

height: 1050 mm

Turret ring diameter: 2160 mm

 

Engine: Volvo THD 100 B (270 hp, diesel)

 

Armor


Edited by sp15, Aug 11 2016 - 19:58.


Slakrrrrrr #1425 Posted Aug 12 2016 - 15:43

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Speaking of the Ikv 91 integrals and derivatives, how exactly is the KV 90 S 73 going to be balanced into the game? Is it just going to fire HEAT/HEAT/HE with both HEAT rounds having unhistorical penetration? I was digging into a bit of stuff that you had posted on the gun before: it supposedly could not fire APDS due to it being a "low pressure" gun, and yet it had a muzzle velocity of 960m/s? I guess what I'm asking for is an elaboration, as I'm sure low pressure is not synonymous with low muzzle velocity.

sp15 #1426 Posted Aug 15 2016 - 16:02

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View PostSlakrrrrrr, on Aug 12 2016 - 14:43, said:

Speaking of the Ikv 91 integrals and derivatives, how exactly is the KV 90 S 73 going to be balanced into the game? Is it just going to fire HEAT/HEAT/HE with both HEAT rounds having unhistorical penetration? I was digging into a bit of stuff that you had posted on the gun before: it supposedly could not fire APDS due to it being a "low pressure" gun, and yet it had a muzzle velocity of 960m/s? I guess what I'm asking for is an elaboration, as I'm sure low pressure is not synonymous with low muzzle velocity.

 

Well to be honest i dont know too much on the topic but i do know that the ikv 91 90mm gun couldnt fire ap or apds projectiles, I also know that it will in the game... but well that isnt such a big deal.

 

Anyway we have a bunch of new stuff today, mostly from the Pansar magazine.

 

early L-60 drawing

L-80 drawing in the same style

Swedish L-120 chassis fitted with a 20mm autocannon from 1942



sp15 #1427 Posted Aug 15 2016 - 16:09

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And one of the designs leading up to the Lvkv fm/43. Its based on the Strv m/40K chassis and has 3 20mm guns in the turret.

I think its related to this drawing that we found earlier

There was also these drawings which show the different landsverk SPAAG's (well the ones that were actually built anyway)



sp15 #1428 Posted Aug 15 2016 - 16:11

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And to end with a bang, here is the Lago prototype



Slakrrrrrr #1429 Posted Aug 24 2016 - 14:35

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Something I have recently noticed: both the Strv m/41 and Strv m/42 have two variants of the Delat-Torn turrets each: one with a wedged front, and the other with a sloped front. Could these potentially be used as stock/upgraded turrets for vehicles? Seeing as how neither Delat-Torn turrets are being used on the Strv m/42, would a second MT line be feasible, using a "Landsverk 25t" (or whichever designation is best) at tier 5, the Strv m/42-57 A.3 at tier 6, and the Pricken at tier 7? If not this, what would be the most logical upgrade path if a second MT line was implemented, which WG seems to want to do at some point?

Edited by Slakrrrrrr, Aug 24 2016 - 14:42.


sp15 #1430 Posted Aug 24 2016 - 20:52

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I dont really think there is any real chance of a2nd medium line, there are enough problems with finding one tier 8 medium as it is. Its funny that you would mention the Pricken though because i have been working on something.


Edited by sp15, Aug 24 2016 - 20:53.


sp15 #1431 Posted Aug 25 2016 - 12:55

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Theoretically a 2nd medium branch from tier 5 and up could look something like this.

 

Lago V > Pricken > Strv m/46 > Lansverk 40 ton > Strv K > Strv A

 

In theory this would be a line focused on heavier and slower vehicles than the other medium branch. But there are some serious problems here, I thnk we have enough scraps of information to make most of these tanks work but they would still have to be reconstructed from concept drawings or engineers notes and such. And some tanks like the Landsverk 40 ton are impossible to reconstruct unless we find the drawing, and the strv A drawings are not really showing the swedish strv A concept but just a general drawing likely based of the m/48 patton. Still the Strv A might work with the swedish autoloader turret and a hull somewaht based on the other drawings but it would still be far from ideal.

 

Overall while i like the idea of a 2nd medium branch which would play differently i dont see it happening. Even if the new Swedish tree is well recived there are more important lines with vehicles we already have information on. Besides i seriously doubt WG would accept a branch of e50m style reconstructions unless they were really desperate... but i think that is what they are doing for Poland.

 

Anyway, progress. Im thinking the two "delat torn" turrets would work well on this thing. We know they used the same turret ring as the m/42 aand planned on possibly fitting the Delat torn turrets on the early Pricken.



Slakrrrrrr #1432 Posted Aug 25 2016 - 16:40

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View Postsp15, on Aug 25 2016 - 03:55, said:

Theoretically a 2nd medium branch from tier 5 and up could look something like this.

 

Lago V > Pricken > Strv m/46 > Lansverk 40 ton > Strv K > Strv A

 

In theory this would be a line focused on heavier and slower vehicles than the other medium branch. But there are some serious problems here, I thnk we have enough scraps of information to make most of these tanks work but they would still have to be reconstructed from concept drawings or engineers notes and such. And some tanks like the Landsverk 40 ton are impossible to reconstruct unless we find the drawing, and the strv A drawings are not really showing the swedish strv A concept but just a general drawing likely based of the m/48 patton. Still the Strv A might work with the swedish autoloader turret and a hull somewaht based on the other drawings but it would still be far from ideal.

 

Overall while i like the idea of a 2nd medium branch which would play differently i dont see it happening. Even if the new Swedish tree is well recived there are more important lines with vehicles we already have information on. Besides i seriously doubt WG would accept a branch of e50m style reconstructions unless they were really desperate... but i think that is what they are doing for Poland.

 

Anyway, progress. Im thinking the two "delat torn" turrets would work well on this thing. We know they used the same turret ring as the m/42 aand planned on possibly fitting the Delat torn turrets on the early Pricken.

 

Even if something like I proposed was at tiers 5 through 7, and something else was used at tier 8 instead of the Landsverk 40 ton (maybe a later variant of the Pricken? Like a Pricken m/46 at tier 7 and a Pricken m/48 at tier 8?), there wouldn't be enough data to make the line? I do understand that some of the other lines have a higher priority than a theoretical second medium tank line, but I don't necessarily agree with them all being E 50M reincarnates: tiers 6, 7 and 10 would have autoloading gun options, and none of them would have the effective armor for their tier. It's also worth mentioning that the E 50M would have quite a bit less armor if it too was historically accurate, but that's another subject for a thread other than this one. Finally, while the Strv A definitely does have resemblance to the M48, I wouldn't dismiss it as a carbon copy save the turret unless the dimensions were identical. Considering we have a drawing with dimensions (or at least they can be referenced based on the turret blueprint and scaling from there) and armor values, as well as weight, crew, ammunition loadout etc, I don't see any reason solely in terms of lack of data as to why it couldn't be used, but I would retract that statement if there is something serious missing.

 

Of course, this is just my two cents. I'm still quite happy that we are going to see Ikea tanks in the game soon!


Edited by Slakrrrrrr, Aug 25 2016 - 16:58.


Caomhanach #1433 Posted Aug 26 2016 - 16:45

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Going back to the light tank discussion a few weeks back, you mentioned the Ikv 91 as a potential tier 10, but that it would mess up a turretted TD line. Maybe instead one of the Hagglunds alternatives you posted could be used instead, such as the rear turretted Alt 3? That way the production version Ikv 91 could still be used in the TD line.

sp15 #1434 Posted Aug 31 2016 - 22:10

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The turreted TD line is dead, there is no way to keep it after the tier 10 lights are going to be a thing, besides it was stretching things too far.

I will not use Ikv's for several lines like that and they are needed for the light tank line. Its a damn shame that there are going to be light tank ikv's and TD ikv's but hey that is WG for you.

 

Anyway did you see the heavy tank reveal, because i wish i didnt. Not only is the model messed up but they have completely ignored me and made up the armor. Because you know lets introduce a new branch of historical vehicles and lets just trow their historical caracteristics out the window because BALANCE!

 

you know what the worst part is?

it would have been perfectly possible to balance these things without the fake armor and weight and the reduced top speed. And this is just the start, we haev two more tanks to go. 

why even bother with asking for armor at all when you are just going to make crapup

 

somebody shoot me



sp15 #1435 Posted Sep 14 2016 - 20:35

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So while the swedish tree is burning in the background lets try to focus on something else, specifically some more information that we got today courtesy of Ren. This will be mostly text but i found it really interesting since it confirmed some suspicions i had

 

1945 armor committee comes up with new requirements for a future Swedish tank and td in the 30 ton range (with some basis in previous discussions on a 30 ton tank and td)


1946 armor committee decides that based on the findings of the 1945 armor committee and new information from Czechoslovakia they should have landsverk start work on a 30 ton TD chassis that can also be used for a tank.

However in 1947 experiments with apds and heat ammunition shows that even smaller caliber guns can be given good penetration. Because of this the armor committee decides that untill they have more data on this the work on the 30 ton chassis should be suspended (since why spend Money on developing a 30 ton td with a 105mm gun when the current td with a 75mm gun using apds ammo could maybe be ebough) But they dont want to stop the work completely and therefore they task Landsverk with coming up with a new improved hull for the Pvkv m/43 but with the same weight limit.

 

Eventually they discontinue this Project, however landsverk finishes it and several other designs by themselfes and start to market their designs elsewhere, while also offering to continue work on the 30 ton chassis if kaft pays for the prototypes.

 

Meanwhile kaft under the assumption that a 75mm gun shooting apds ammo will be all that is needed start discussing a 20 ton tank and a 6 ton support vehicle. these discussions continue into 1950 at which Point they result in the Tk fm/49 and also in the armor committee becoming aware of the amx 13. which becomes favoured over the landsverk Lansen design

 

This is the 6 ton support tank as drawn by KAFT



sp15 #1436 Posted Sep 15 2016 - 22:24

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Its officailly over, im not doing this anymore. The swedish tree was a waste of three years of my life and i want nothing more to do with it.

 

If WG is just going to make stats up when they know the real ones since long ago there is nothing more i can do. Frankly i should have taken the whole Strv 103 thing as a sign of things to come because there is nothing good to come of the mess that is the swedish tree in the furure. WG is making crapup when it comes to the heavy tank armor and all the stats on the ivk 103 are completely made up garbage.

 

This thread is over


Edited by sp15, Sep 16 2016 - 08:46.


IEatMetalFromTanks #1437 Posted Sep 17 2016 - 15:18

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test

philburg2 #1438 Posted Sep 21 2016 - 18:59

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Well that's unfortunate as I thought this was one of the best threads I've ever seen on here.  A lot of great information here, hopefully it can make an impact on the game eventually.

sp15 #1439 Posted Dec 10 2016 - 21:22

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Emil I

Emil II

Kranvagn

Engines



Slakrrrrrr #1440 Posted Jan 31 2017 - 23:24

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I tried to make a side profile of the S-455 drawing. Would make a nice predecessor to the Pricken & co. if it became an alternatve tier 5 medium in my opinion:

 







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