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European tanks discussion italian new tech tree tank tree Czech upcomming poland

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sp15 #761 Posted Apr 15 2014 - 17:43

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So renhanxue pointed out that i had missed one Ikv 91 design. this was due to some problem with Google Drive. but anyhow here is the Landsverk turreted Ikv proposal from 1965.

 

Landsverk Ikv 65 Alt 5

 

Weight: 14 tonnes
Length: 5,7m (with gun: 8,3m)
Width: 2,85m
Height: 2,5m
Ground clerance: 0,4m
Track width: 0,38m
Crew: 4
Max speed: 65kph
Engine: Volvo TD 100B (270hp)
Power to weight ratio: 19,3hp/t
Armament: Bofors 90mm L/53 (Semi automatic)
Depression/elevation: -10/+15
Turret traverse: 360dg
Carried ammo: 48 rounds

 

Armour
Hull front: 12mm
Hull side: 10mm
Hull Rear: 8mm
Turret front: 12mm (25mm gun mantlet)
Turret side: 12mm
Turret Rear: 12mm
Roof: 6mm

 

 

Worth noting is that we know that this vehicle was redesigned since we have a model of it from ~1968

 



sp15 #762 Posted Apr 20 2014 - 19:23

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Ive been meaning to post this for a while now, its two more of Bofors ikv 91 proposals.

 

Ikv 90 Bofors Type S

 

Shematics/cutaway

 

Height: 2090mm
Width: 3000mm
Length: 5450mm (Total: 6370mm)
Track width: 480mm
Ground clerance: 400mm
Crew: 3
Weight: 14 tons
Engine: Volvo 5110 (Diesel, 330hp)
Power to weight ratio: 23,5hp/t
Max speed: 65kph
Armor (hull): (15/10/8)
Average ground pressure: 0,55kg/cm^2 (0,45)
Armament: 9cm L/54 (Autoloader)
Time to fire 4 rounds: 10s
Gun traverse: 0dg
Depression/elevation: -11/+13



sp15 #763 Posted Apr 20 2014 - 19:35

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Ikv 90 Bofors Type T

 

Shematics/cutaway

 

Height: 2380mm
Width: 3000mm
Length: 5650mm (Total: 7340mm)
Track width: 480mm
Ground clerance: 400mm
Crew: 4
Weight: 14,7 tons
Engine: Volvo 5110 (Diesel, 330hp)
Power to weight ratio: 23hp/t
Max speed: 65kph
Armor (turret): (20/10/10)
Armor (hull): (15/8/8)
Average ground pressure: 0,55kg/cm^2 (0,45)
Armament: 9cm L/54 (Autoloader)
Time to fire 4 rounds: 10s
Turret traverse: 360dg
Depression/elevation: -10/+12



Eyeless_Camper #764 Posted Apr 28 2014 - 13:34

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Really nicely written in here. :tongue:

People really seem to want them, just like me. :teethhappy:

http://ftr.wot-news....part-iv-sweden/


Edited by Eyeless_Camper, Apr 28 2014 - 13:35.


Slakrrrrrr #765 Posted Apr 28 2014 - 14:44

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Something I decided to quickly whip up: an image with all of the Ikv proposals, ordered alphabetically/numerically and by company, to scale (1m = 50 pixels):

 

http://i.imgur.com/r5kEwrP.jpg



sp15 #766 Posted May 14 2014 - 21:19

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So things have been quiet for a while since i have been focusing on writing stuff for ftr and Ren has run out of documents to look trough (or rather dont know where to look next i think)

 

anyhow i thought this was pretty cool http://www.finnmedal...nk-by-Landsverk

too bad i dont have any money



renhanxue #767 Posted May 15 2014 - 00:32

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I got a new job two weeks ago and things have been sorta busy (haven't had a single free weekend for the last month or so). But I'm not dead and I still have plenty of places I'd like to look for documents in, so expect more Soon™.

Eyeless_Camper #768 Posted May 15 2014 - 07:47

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View Postrenhanxue, on May 15 2014 - 01:32, said:

I got a new job two weeks ago and things have been sorta busy (haven't had a single free weekend for the last month or so). But I'm not dead and I still have plenty of places I'd like to look for documents in, so expect more Soon™.

Great news. :coin:



Strv74 #769 Posted May 17 2014 - 06:27

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I'm not exactly sure how WG could justify a Chinese tree without a Swedish tree. I had done work on them before, but the FTR articles helped me learn about even more designs. Sweden should get a full tree of it's own. The rest of Europe could probably be mixed in an "international tree". Great work here, I will watch closely :)

sp15 #770 Posted May 17 2014 - 11:17

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View PostStrv74, on May 17 2014 - 06:27, said:

I'm not exactly sure how WG could justify a Chinese tree without a Swedish tree. I had done work on them before, but the FTR articles helped me learn about even more designs. Sweden should get a full tree of it's own. The rest of Europe could probably be mixed in an "international tree". Great work here, I will watch closely :)

Well China is a special case. It was never planned to introduce as anything other than a premium nation, which is why we have production verisons of vehicles as premiums and the exact same vehicles under their prototype designations as regular vehicles. For example the type 59 which is the same as the WZ-120 and the type 61 which is the WZ-132/131. The reason China was introduced as a afterthought was due to the huge market it represents. China was added because there was money to be made. 

 

The thing about Sweden though is that while it can make a tree with more vehicles than either China or Japan it is not certain that there is that much interest in swedish tanks.(not as much money to be made). Ideally i would want Sweden to be added as a separate nation. But what i can see happening is Sweden simply being used to cover the high tier heavy role for the european tree and then discarded and forgotten in favour of other nations.at the most i would expected to see a medium branch and the three high tier heavies in a eu tree.



sp15 #771 Posted May 17 2014 - 22:59

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i did an updated version of the medium branch picture.

https://i.imgur.com/bNUT5lB.jpg

Oh and which tank do you think looks best?



Strv74 #772 Posted May 17 2014 - 23:28

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View Postsp15, on May 17 2014 - 23:59, said:

i did an updated version of the medium branch picture.

https://i.imgur.com/bNUT5lB.jpg

Oh and which tank do you think looks best?

 

The Strv74 looks nice ;)

 

How much armor does that tank actually have on it's gun mantle? I heard it was thin, but well sloped.



sp15 #773 Posted May 17 2014 - 23:49

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View PostStrv74, on May 17 2014 - 23:28, said:

 

The Strv74 looks nice ;)

 

How much armor does that tank actually have on it's gun mantle? I heard it was thin, but well sloped.


20-30mm, it overlaps with the 20mm turret armor at some places but the turret front could be penned by tier 1s



Strv74 #774 Posted May 18 2014 - 00:25

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Could the Pansarbandvagn 301 be put in as a low tier premium light tank? Something like a Panzer 2c

 

Also, do you plan on giving the IKV 91 the L7 (assumed) 105mm gun? It was proposed (The IKV 105)


Edited by Strv74, May 18 2014 - 00:51.


sp15 #775 Posted May 18 2014 - 18:37

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View PostStrv74, on May 18 2014 - 00:25, said:

Could the Pansarbandvagn 301 be put in as a low tier premium light tank? Something like a Panzer 2c

 

Also, do you plan on giving the IKV 91 the L7 (assumed) 105mm gun? It was proposed (The IKV 105)


to adress your first point this isnt world of APC´s, besides there are more interesting and apropriate choices for premium tanks.

And to answer the 2nd question. Yes i planning something along those lines although the actual prototypes made with that gun were made too late for wot. But the gun was concidered in the early stages of development. But concidering i want to place the Ikv 91 on tier 8 that gun might be exessive, besides i have a more historical choice for a 105mm gun for it.



Strv74 #776 Posted May 18 2014 - 23:34

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One last question, sorry. 

 

I really like the article that For the Record did based on the work you did here for Sweden. However I like the tree on FTR better than the tree you currently have on page one (for a multitude of reasons, like more mediums, a joint-off heavy oine and two TD lines, as well as the arty. What do you consider the better/more recent tree?



Strv74 #777 Posted May 19 2014 - 00:04

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Hm..

 

I just noticed the Panzer 58 and 61s as tier 9 and 10, great choices. I love the look of them, dont know why.

 

 

So the Tier 9 would get the prototype guns. Seems balanced. 90mm, 20 Pounder A, 20 Pounder B, 105mm L7A1. 

 

Tier 10 with the L7A(X). (Perhaps L7A3 like Leopard?)

 

Seems to me that they will play a lot like tier 9 and 10 Centurions. Not as mobile as Leopards, but very much still flanking mediums. They do seem to be quite tall though. Good gun elevation/depression of 21/10 degrees. Seem like pretty nice, standard tanks. Could use more turret armor. I;m pretty sure it only has 120mm on the Panzer 61

 

According to this thread, they were based on the Indian Panzer...

http://forum.worldof...er/page__st__20

 

 



sp15 #778 Posted May 19 2014 - 05:37

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View PostStrv74, on May 18 2014 - 23:34, said:

One last question, sorry. 

 

I really like the article that For the Record did based on the work you did here for Sweden. However I like the tree on FTR better than the tree you currently have on page one (for a multitude of reasons, like more mediums, a joint-off heavy oine and two TD lines, as well as the arty. What do you consider the better/more recent tree?


The tree on page one is really outdated, it has not been updated in like a year so the FTR version is a better representation of my current tech tree idea.

 

View PostStrv74, on May 19 2014 - 00:04, said:

Hm..

 

I just noticed the Panzer 58 and 61s as tier 9 and 10, great choices. I love the look of them, dont know why.

 

 

So the Tier 9 would get the prototype guns. Seems balanced. 90mm, 20 Pounder A, 20 Pounder B, 105mm L7A1. 

 

Tier 10 with the L7A(X). (Perhaps L7A3 like Leopard?)

 

Seems to me that they will play a lot like tier 9 and 10 Centurions. Not as mobile as Leopards, but very much still flanking mediums. They do seem to be quite tall though. Good gun elevation/depression of 21/10 degrees. Seem like pretty nice, standard tanks. Could use more turret armor. I;m pretty sure it only has 120mm on the Panzer 61

 

According to this thread, they were based on the Indian Panzer...

http://forum.worldof...er/page__st__20

 

 

 

yeah they will probably appear as the high tier meds from switzerland in the european tree. but there are some problems with that line. Also there is no way the Panzer 61 would get a 120mm, irl that was added on a heavily modefied version called the panzer 88 i think, and that tank was from the 1980s which is outside the wot timeline



Slakrrrrrr #779 Posted May 19 2014 - 15:00

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The way I see it, Switzerland could have the Pz.58, Pz.61 and Pz.68 as their tier 8, 9 and 10 medium tanks, respectively. The KW30 could then be used as a tier 8 premium medium tank.

Strv74 #780 Posted May 19 2014 - 15:37

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View PostSlakrrrrrr, on May 19 2014 - 16:00, said:

The way I see it, Switzerland could have the Pz.58, Pz.61 and Pz.68 as their tier 8, 9 and 10 medium tanks, respectively. The KW30 could then be used as a tier 8 premium medium tank.

The L7 105 is not really a gun for a tier 8 medium, but I recognize what you are saying. This tank really is not much of a high tier medium, really like the Indien Panzer, but with British guns.

 

So: I would do: 

 

Panzer 58 Prototype B (90mm, 20 pounder A, 20 pounder B) Tier 8

Panzer 61 (20 Pounder B, L7 105)

Panzer 68GT (L7A3 with much improved turret armor on Grosser Turm, maybe un historically so, but it needs something for T10)

 

 

On page one, you have TDs until tier 9 or 8. Artillery could be used as T9 and 10, with the PanzerKanone 61 and PanzerKanone 68. The main difference being that the first one was on the Pz.61 chassis, without an autoloader. T10 has a 6 round drum loader.

 

 

 







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