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[FAQ] Scouting with a Leopard


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@lutcikaur #1 Posted Jul 23 2010 - 01:39

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Hey. Ive played 200+ battles with my leopard, going from Tank Destroyer, up to a stug, and spg to a su-26. I currently use both of them when I'm bored (which is rare now  :Smile_honoring: )

Revision 1 : posted guide
Revision 1.1 : Added reasons for Upgrade order
Revision 1.1.1 : Added Revision list. No my next one wont be 1.1.1.1  :rolleyes:
Revision 1.2 : Changed name to FAQ in the front. :D
Revision 1.3 : Added 'From Start to Finish' / Prettied it up a tad
Revision 1.4 : Added 'Manipulating Auto-target'
Revision 1.4.1 : Grammar (So many red squiggles! D:)
Revision 1.5 : Added : 'Misconceptions'
Revision 1.5.1 : Changed IS-7's speed from 28 (its traverse) to 50 (its speed. Lol stupid mistakes)


As a leopard, you have many amazing qualities, and a few important disadvantages.

Advantages:

-- You are the most agile tank in the game. The A20 has better top speed, that is well-known, but it loses that if it turns.
-- Your front armor has a perfect slope on it, effectively doubling your frontal armor.
-- You can eventually kill anything p4 and under.

Disadvantages:

-- The T34 and higher are able to effectively trail you and kill you before you can escape. Be weary of them.
-- You cant kill anything higher than a P4. (Well how do you expect to? you are a light tank XD)
-- Your treads are extremely vulnerable

What you should be doing

A: You should be Scouting for your team. In then out.
B: Hunting SPG's if it is safe. Never stop moving.
C: Hunting Low-Tier Tank Destroyers (Hetzer and lower)
D: Kill other light/medium tanks.


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Misconceptions:

View Range

Misconception : My view range is only 400m and the heavy tanks have 460m. I can't see as much!

That's the most common one, and its the most wrong. It's completely true if you are standing still. However if you're standing still you're doing it wrong.

While moving, it's a completely different story.

Lets take you as a leopard, Foe #1 as a p4 , Foe #2 as a T34-85 (Referred to as T34' for space issues) , Foe #3 as a Tiger II, Foe #4 as an IS-7, Foe #5 as a Maus

.......Movespeed............View Range.....Total Viewing Area (linear m/s)

You. : 68km/hr or 18.8m/s...400m...........7520 linear m/s
P4.. : 48km/hr or 13.3m/s...420m...........5586 linear m/s
T34' : 54km/hr or 15m/s.....400m...........6000 linear m/s
IS-7 : 50km/hr or 13.8m/s...460m...........6348 linear m/s
Maus : 20km/hr or 5.5m/s....460m...........2530 linear m/s

That means in every direction the scout here, the Leopard, can see the most per second. I'll convert it to area sometime later. Probably after i finish my current project in C#


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Scouting:


You are first and foremost a scout. Never charge directly at a tank. Never go completely away from it either.
This is basically what to do C:

Black : you will die.
Red : You will probably die.
Orange : You could get hit.
Yellow : You might get hit.
Green : If you get hit, the game hates you.
(Obviously the colors change if they are reloading, into safe for the moment.)

Posted Image

Second, You are a SPG Hunter. You should ONLY go to kill SPG's if

A: There is nobody else around.
B: there are only light tanks/p3's around, that you know you can evade.
C: There are other people around that aren't paying attention.
D: If it is an S-51.

If none of these work, then get in and out.

Ive dived into kill / spot / damage/ assist in killing an S-51. It is completely worth it. Your life < a good S-51.
Unless its an S-51, you shouldn't try to kill them if there are people that notice you.


Now you are also a Tank Destroyer Hunter.. There are basic rules to this too. Practically the same as above..

A: You already killed an SPG / there are no others to kill.
B: There is nobody else around.
C: there are only light tanks/p3's around, that you know you can evade.
D: There are other people around that aren't paying attention.

-------------------------------------------

Light/Medium Killer

Okay, don't go out of your way to kill them. If its safe, kill them. If they are supported, take shots as you run, and keep going.

You should be able to kill EASILY

P3 asuf A  (AP)
P3          (AP)
BT7       (AP)
Luchs      (AP)
T46      (AP)
T28 (AP)

You should be able to kill if you circle :

P4       (AP)
P3/4      (AP)
Leopard (HE. Very tough)
VK3001 (AP, rarely)
VK3601 (AP, Rarely)
KV (HE/AP Uses all of your ammo..)

You will NOT be able to kill

Anything above this. (But use HE)
This means that KV-or-higher-tier will be completely useless for you to try to kill. You should only expect to cause minimal system damage and ~10% HP over the course of 10 shots. Even HE rounds are slightly useless,although more useful than AP. Only fire if you have::

A) A clear shot at their treads.
B) A clear shot at their back.
C) You aren't the main target.
D) You are in a group.

C and D are essential, then you need either A or B. Otherwise, you are signing your own death warrant.


-------------------------------------------

How to play. From start to finish


Crew

Okay, you just got your brand new leopard. Your crew is at 25 | 28 | 28 | 28 for percentages.
You have three options :

A) Leave your crew alone, you can do fine with them like that.
B) Upgrade only the commander to 50%, so you get 50 |30 | 30 | 30
C) Upgrade everyone so you have 50 | 55 | 55 | 55

I did option A, regretted it but was already at 40% by the time i had enough money for option C.
If you do option B, then eventually after ~150 games your commander will be 100, ad the rest of your crew will be lower. kinda annoying.

At option A, it takes about 194 games to max your crew. at least it did for me, with games 136-184 being premium. I leveled a lot there.
Option b is okay.
I would recommend option C if you have the extra 100k.

Playstyle

Now. You have a very slow, un-upgraded leopard.
Your max speed is pitiful at around 35km/hr (will confirm) and if you think of turning you will become a snail.

Basically you have two options :

A) Be the usual scout, rush in (albeit slowly) and die.
B) Protect the artillery. Works kinda nice, you wont die nearly as much.

I rushed in every single time. I died every single time, mostly because of my treads.


Once your engine is upgraded, then you should start scouting reliably.
Your speed WILL increase when your crew gets to around 50,70,100. Ive noticed the increase in handling differences from those levels.
-------------------------------------------
Manipulating Auto-target

Now we know there's an auto-target function, or well, we now know. Use right click on the tank to auto-aim at their turret.

This is good and all, but the turret is usually the most armored. Explosive ammo goes there. I would hope its protected.

Now, you may notice that your auto-target usually leads them too much, so you rarely hit. This is perfect. With the leopard, when you turn your tracks, your turret has to readjust. It starts a tiny bit after it loses its 'perfect' lead, putting in into THE perfect position to hit somebody.

When strafing, make sure you are turning towards them, then fire. if your missing because your creating a sort of "Chi-Circle" because you are both trying to circle each other.. (you are each the dots in the middle)
http://profile.ak.fb...179073_8574.jpg

then you need to

A) If your 1v1, stop and back up. they usually wont expect it.
B) slow down a bit and turn more
C) turn the other way, and try to strafe more . XD

It all depends on the situation. -More to come-




-------------------------------------------

Upgrade order:

Engine > Tracks > Radio > Gun

Engine : Increases acceleration and top speed. (Extremely important)
Base : Normal Top speed is equal to a heavies. ~20km/hr. Extreme top : 35km/hr
Level 1 : Normal Top speed equal to a p4. ~45km/hr. Extreme top : 65km/hr
Level 2 (Max) : Normal Top speed equal to.. you. ~60km/hr. Extreme top : 68km/hr

Normal top speed is with slight turning involved. Numbers are estimates from my memory of a few days ago. I will test with my 100% crew , and then get a new 25% crew just to see.

Tracks: Increases acceleration and top speed. (Tested by me and nimuee)
Base : Well, you go, kinda.
Upgraded : Better turning, better speed, better acceleration. only get if best engine is researched.

Radio : Without it you cant tell your team where they are. Pretty self explanatory. Higher tier = better. you have extra weight to spare.

Gun: Dont bother with the gun until you can get the 67pen 70 dmg last tier gun.

-------------------------------------------

AMMO

This is a highly debatable subject. I originally used PURELY HE rounds. and it was very very good. SPGS went down in 4 hits always, and 6 for most other lights.
Then i switched to AP. SPGS are taken down in 2-6 hits, usually on the 2-4 side because i shoot their backs.
Lights get killed in 3-5, and still get immobilized nicely.
I cant kill anything or even touch anything heavy. (excluding a KV)

Easiest thing : Pack 3/4 AP, and 1/4 HE. Experiment with what you like better, and have better luck with. Then swap the numbers C:

I still use purely AP.

-------------------------------------------

EQUIPTMENT:

Also debatable.

My favorite combo at the moment is

Additional Grousers
Anti-Fragmentation Lining

With this i can run away through a swamp or dirt, and only lose ~2km/hr when the other tanks lose ~5km/hr.  Its very nice .. Very very nice.
And also when my tracks get blown out, it takes a team ~2 volleys, (sometimes one, sometimes three) to kill me. that's like 15 seconds of their team shooting a leopard. That's AWESOME!! Ive also bounced a KV shot from the front with this. not without anti frag armor though.

Also , good items are :

Toolbox (if you want treads back up faster [ i get all my crew to get repair to replace this C:])
Coated Optics (if you want to see farther, from 400m to 440m)


-------------------------------------------

:D Well, that's about it. Thanks for reading it. Comment on it if you think i missed something / am dumb for my opinions on how to play a leopard.

Remember!! play how you most like to. if my style isn't fun for you, try to change it for yourself so it is, and then comment! or completely disregard it too, its all 'bout trying to get people to like playing lights.  B)

Edited by Lutcikaur, Aug 01 2010 - 21:09.


Centurion105 #2 Posted Jul 23 2010 - 03:31

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Very nice, very well done Lutcikaur.  http://cdn-frm-us.wargaming.net/wot/us/4.1/style_emoticons/default/Smile_glasses.gif

merig00 #3 Posted Jul 23 2010 - 06:37

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Very nice!

I expect it to be updated once beta 0.5 comes out :Smile_honoring:

Eide #4 Posted Jul 23 2010 - 08:48

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Quite a nice guide. A few remarks though:

You mention Leopard can only kill up to P4, but then proceed to include every Tier 5 tank barring the T34. So basically (and I agree there) Leopard can kill anything up to Tier 5, barring the T34. Right now that looks a bit weird.

Arty protection is some Leopard excell at. I often find myself in games with 4 to 5 Pz IIs, Pz III, III ausf A, T46 and A20s rushing the enmy to scout. I those situation the Leopard is THE perfect tank to hang back with to engage suicide rushers who're after your arty.
Those rushers depend be able to outrun everything in their path for a limited period of time. The Leopard makes that nearly impossible if you're positioned right. You don't need to kill the rushers, just immobilise them and there's bound to be a heavier tank nearby who's willing and able to blast the rusher skyhigh.

Keldin #5 Posted Jul 23 2010 - 12:05

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View PostEide, on Jul 23 2010 - 08:48, said:

Arty protection is some Leopard excell at. I often find myself in games with 4 to 5 Pz IIs, Pz III, III ausf A, T46 and A20s rushing the enmy to scout. I those situation the Leopard is THE perfect tank to hang back with to engage suicide rushers who're after your arty.
Those rushers depend be able to outrun everything in their path for a limited period of time. The Leopard makes that nearly impossible if you're positioned right. You don't need to kill the rushers, just immobilise them and there's bound to be a heavier tank nearby who's willing and able to blast the rusher skyhigh.

This. I often hang back for defense with my Pz3/4 or even with the P4 early in the match. I don't have the turret rotation speed to stop the fast moving enemy scouts, so a track hit by the leopard in combination with a big fat HE round is an excellent combination.

Keldin

Sue #6 Posted Jul 23 2010 - 14:27

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Nice guide! :)

merig00 #7 Posted Jul 23 2010 - 14:31

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Also even though HE rounds can't really deal damage to tanks level 5 and above, you can take out their modules just like that. Heavy tank with damaged turret or engine is pretty much useless.

@lutcikaur #8 Posted Jul 23 2010 - 17:24

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Yea, im going to constantly update this with new things i find / new strats. With how i play, ive never been able to effectively be an Arty protector. It never seemed useful to me. Id rather help out my arty/td/heavy/med by lighting up targets for them, than sitting back waiting for the enemy to come.

it might work for some, but its not my playstyle that i find effective. Ill add thoes off-rolls later.

Also merig00, any way you can botch a second post under my first one so i can edit it to have more room to add things? i wrote the guide half asleep after doing stuff all day and forgot to :D

edit: still half asleep :: Thanks guys for your support XDXD

amade #9 Posted Jul 24 2010 - 10:44

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Great guide!

Although some would consider this a waste of gold but APCR shells are quite useful in desperate, turn-the-tide-of-the-battle situations. It can penetrate some of the tougher mediums as well as a few heavies much more easily, provided you go for the sides/back. I've used them in a few battles where I absolutely had to kill weakened key targets which I would otherwise not be able to penetrate with either HE or AP in order to help ensure victory. These are the moments when your already overdriven adrenaline rush goes into an even higher gear.

Of course, since the primary function of the Leopard is as a scout I would not recommend that anyone load up their leopard with lots of APCR shells and go tank hunting since even with the extra penetration you still wouldn't be able to cause enough damage to high HP tanks. Personally, I only carry around a dozen shells every time I go into battle and rarely use them at all so it's not a drain to your gold coffers.

Ulfar #10 Posted Jul 24 2010 - 15:46

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Thanks for this guide, I just started to play a Leopard yesterday and this kind of thread is pretty helpful for any "newcomer" to the leopard scouting. Thumb up!

zablnc #11 Posted Jul 24 2010 - 22:51

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Nice guide, But 2 thing are wrong here. one Deg to climb is 10 lower the a PZ III and you speed is only 4 km faster then a pZ III. Two I have never had a leopard take out my PZ III. The Leopard torque is too slow, takes to long to pick up speed. PZ III will own a Leopard.

amade #12 Posted Jul 24 2010 - 23:13

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View Postzablnc, on Jul 24 2010 - 22:51, said:

Two I have never had a leopard take out my PZ III.

Never? I look forward to being the first Leopard owner to claim your smoking wreck! ;)

Though I agree, PzIIIs are not easy to kill. But not impossible. Then again a Leopard's purpose is not to go around hunting medium tanks. Often if it's not another Leopard or an A-20 that's chasing and keeping up with my leopard chances are it's gotta be a PzIII.

@lutcikaur #13 Posted Jul 25 2010 - 04:50

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View Postzablnc, on Jul 24 2010 - 22:51, said:

Nice guide, But 2 thing are wrong here. one Deg to climb is 10 lower the a PZ III and you speed is only 4 km faster then a pZ III. Two I have never had a leopard take out my PZ III. The Leopard torque is too slow, takes to long to pick up speed. PZ III will own a Leopard.


We should 1v1 C: ive never had a p3 kill me (since i got my crew up)

zablnc #14 Posted Jul 25 2010 - 15:20

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I'll see you two in the game Good Luck your need it   :rolleyes:

@lutcikaur #15 Posted Jul 25 2010 - 16:22

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View Postzablnc, on Jul 25 2010 - 15:20, said:

I'll see you two in the game Good Luck your need it   :rolleyes:


-win- :D but good matchs

zablnc #16 Posted Jul 25 2010 - 16:34

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View PostLutcikaur, on Jul 25 2010 - 16:22, said:

-win- :D but good matchs

Yes I put my head down in Shame. I want a rematch when crew is 100%.....  :D

Thanks for the battles Lutcikaur it was fun  B)

@lutcikaur #17 Posted Aug 02 2010 - 07:21

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Ok question. i have an a20 in addition to my leopard. should i write a subsection on the a20 ? otherwise ill sell it and go to t34.  

lol today i got the bt7 (: ten minutes later a20. two hours in and im at the point to buy my t34

Mod #18 Posted Aug 02 2010 - 07:45

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"Second, You are a SPG Hunter. You should ONLY go to kill SPG's if

A: There is nobody else around.
B: there are only light tanks/p3's around, that you know you can evade.
C: There are other people around that aren't paying attention.
D: If it is an S-51.

If none of these work, then get in and out.

Ive dived into kill / spot / damage/ assist in killing an S-51. It is completely worth it. Your life < a good S-51.
Unless its an S-51, you shouldn't try to kill them if there are people that notice you."

S-51 is the currently the best SPG in the game. I don't understand why you should only try to kill them as opposed to other artillery.

:blink:

exoriou #19 Posted Aug 02 2010 - 08:25

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Awesome guide man, i don't have Leopard tho, but A-20 and yeah, leopards are kinda pain in the a$ fro me. But i guess most of these guidelines can be used for any lights.

amade #20 Posted Aug 02 2010 - 10:46

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I reckon for the A-20 you could just detail its strengths and weaknesses just as you did for the leopard. Maybe a comparison in what it can do the Leopard can't or what it can't compete with the Leopard. Apart from that the way it and other lights ought to be played should be similar to the Leopard.