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Your WR, what it actually means, and why it matters. (reprise)

Setting the record straight

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GrimJahk #1 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 21:50

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I am hardly an expert here. But for me winning is fun. I can still have fun in the cases when I lose, but doing well is as important to me as learning and improving.
So, I had an epiphany while reading another players post about how bad the MM abuses that player. I took a minute to look them up and see how their stats are… and frankly I was unsurprised.
There will always be unfair matches. However, the law of averages plays a HUGE factor here. If your WR is below average it means that you need to have MORE above average players on your team to offset you in that match.

Yes, I said it. It's all on YOU.

If you take a minute to look at what the server average is on efficiency and win rate, and you are below that… Well, you need to figure out how to contribute more to your team, otherwise they have to work harder to offset you to pull off a win.

Lets assume a global average of 48.5% as a WR (to allow for Draws)

If your W/R is 46% that means you are 2.5% below the average player and you are contributing less (on average) to your team. If you are at 55% you are contributing 6.5% MORE (on average) to your team.

So, the math is simple, working from the Law of Averages… if every other player in the match is exactly average, then the only difference is YOU. Either you are better, or worse, than average and it will hinge on your performance.

You also need to account for your performance in the tank you choose to play for that match...

If you are a GLOBAL 47% player at Tier III, You load up that Shiny new Lowe you just bought... DO NOT expect to win 47% of the matches you play. In fact, the smarter thing to do is to know EXACTLY what your WR is in every tank you play. (thus your ability to perform at that level of play with the selected tank)

If you have a 33% WR in a Tier VIII Premium tank... you are doing nothing other than helping your team lose by hitting the "Battle" button.
Everyone has good and bad matches:
The trick is, to make every match count, and always be focused on your contribution to your team. Understand the mechanics, learn the tactics, try to learn something from every match.
  • Play at your skill level (rushing up the tiers is BAD.... m'kay?)
  • Do damage
  • Stay alive to do more damage
  • Help the team win, don't expect them to carry you
Do this, and your WR will climb, along with your enjoyment of the game.

losttwo #2 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 21:55

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great post

3PzDiv #3 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 21:57

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View PostGrimJahk, on Sep 30 2013 - 21:50, said:

[...]
There will always be unfair matches. However, the law of averages plays a HUGE factor here. If your WR is below average it means that you have to have MORE above average players on your team to offset you in that match.[...]
Either that, or the player will be see more lower-tier percentages in the player's matches. Not sure how MM works, but that would be another way to compensate.

Quote

[...]
If your W/R is 46% that means you are 2.5% below the average player and you are contributing less (on average) to your team. If you are at 55% you are contributing 6.5% MORE (on average) to your team.[...]
I think it is even stronger than that, as the individual player can only contribute a 1/15th of the overall success, at least theoretically. To drive the WR higher over time the player must contribute far more than the few percentages that the WR indicates, and that is without assuming that the MM is trying to equalize battles, which would have a further dampening effect on good players.

Edited by 3PzDiv, Sep 30 2013 - 21:57.


joka111 #4 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 21:58

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Math ruined the thread. +1

ADRR #5 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:01

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But but i just want to bot my way up to tier X and when I finally get there I know I'll be a lot better. Me and my other two 43% toonmates in T57s

3PzDiv #6 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:02

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View Postjoka111, on Sep 30 2013 - 21:58, said:

Math ruined the thread. +1

Agreed. Although its essence is correct: When averaging out the WR the only variable is the player's performance, at least in public battles.

Zepherex #7 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:02

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MY team once had 3 Lowes in a platoon and they all had 400 eff, needless to say they rushed out and died, 3 decent players in a lowe platoon could have easily won us that game...

Nukelavee45 #8 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:06

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Quote

If you have a 33% WR in a Tier VIII Premium tank... you are doing nothing other than helping your team lose by hitting the "Battle" button.

Such a meaningless statement, in a post filled with nothing of value.  Seriously, every tank is different in its play, so every tank has a learning curve.  The only way to excell on a given tank is to drive it over and over, and that means losing a lot, too.  But, practice makes perfect, right?

So, for some people, when they have 33% on one tank, they had 31% the day before, and tommorow it will be 35%.  So, they are doing nothing by hitting that button except improving, and striving for the point where they, too, can be arrogant twerps.

What about the games lost due to being stock while you research the tree?

Of course, I'm sticking mostly to my Stug and M4 lately, just because I enjoy them more, but while that helps my numbers, it isn't teaching me more about my Tiger II.

venomjoe #9 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:11

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Trying to get my stats better atm

SaintFur #10 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:11

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Good post but you lost me at math.

baxtaz #11 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:12

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View PostNukelavee45, on Sep 30 2013 - 22:06, said:

Such a meaningless statement, in a post filled with nothing of value.  Seriously, every tank is different in its play, so every tank has a learning curve.  The only way to excell on a given tank is to drive it over and over, and that means losing a lot, too.  But, practice makes perfect, right?

So, for some people, when they have 33% on one tank, they had 31% the day before, and tommorow it will be 35%.  So, they are doing nothing by hitting that button except improving, and striving for the point where they, too, can be arrogant twerps.

What about the games lost due to being stock while you research the tree?

Of course, I'm sticking mostly to my Stug and M4 lately, just because I enjoy them more, but while that helps my numbers, it isn't teaching me more about my Tiger II.

Sorry but if you maintain anything lower than 48%, on average you are hurting your team more than helping it.
If you are below 40% you are shooting every team you're on in the face.

ADRR #12 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:17

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He's also struggling in his tiger cause he cant derp like he can in the stug and m4

CallmeAwe #13 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:17

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View PostNukelavee45, on Sep 30 2013 - 22:06, said:

Of course, I'm sticking mostly to my Stug and M4 lately, just because I enjoy them more, but while that helps my numbers, it isn't teaching me more about my Tiger II.
If you aren't learning anything in the Stug and M4 that you can apply to the Tiger II, then this isn't the game for you. Most of the principles in this game such as using cover, angling your armor, targeting weakspots, etc. apply to EVERY class of tank (except SPG which aren't tanks).

Edited by awe84, Sep 30 2013 - 22:19.


SumiXam #14 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:18

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View PostNukelavee45, on Sep 30 2013 - 22:06, said:

Such a meaningless statement, in a post filled with nothing of value.  Seriously, every tank is different in its play, so every tank has a learning curve.  The only way to excell on a given tank is to drive it over and over, and that means losing a lot, too.  But, practice makes perfect, right?

So, for some people, when they have 33% on one tank, they had 31% the day before, and tommorow it will be 35%.  So, they are doing nothing by hitting that button except improving, and striving for the point where they, too, can be arrogant twerps.

What about the games lost due to being stock while you research the tree?

Of course, I'm sticking mostly to my Stug and M4 lately, just because I enjoy them more, but while that helps my numbers, it isn't teaching me more about my Tiger II.

Learning a tank is one thing. Failing over and over again without improving is entirely different. You completely missed the point of the OP.

GrimJahk #15 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:20

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View PostNukelavee45, on Sep 30 2013 - 22:06, said:

Such a meaningless statement, in a post filled with nothing of value.  Seriously, every tank is different in its play, so every tank has a learning curve.  The only way to excell on a given tank is to drive it over and over, and that means losing a lot, too.  But, practice makes perfect, right?

So, for some people, when they have 33% on one tank, they had 31% the day before, and tommorow it will be 35%.  So, they are doing nothing by hitting that button except improving, and striving for the point where they, too, can be arrogant twerps.

What about the games lost due to being stock while you research the tree?

Of course, I'm sticking mostly to my Stug and M4 lately, just because I enjoy them more, but while that helps my numbers, it isn't teaching me more about my Tiger II.
I'm sorry that you see nothing of value here.

I think you missed the overall point of this thread.

Yes you are completely correct that each tank has its own learning curve... but the learning curve of the tanks are MUCH smaller than the learning curve of the game itself. It does not matter how many times a new player drives a Lowe if they do not understand the mechanics of the game.... eventually they will determine that the only way to win is to hide in the back and hope the team carries them to victory.

You do understand that the AVERAGE WR for an AFK BOT is  about 45% don't you? At 33% you have to be actively doing things that cause your team to lose. Usually that is charging out blindly and getting dead, or pulling up next to someone in cover and shooting...

Playing a stock tanks sucks. I agree. But with proper understanding of the game, you should STILL be able to manage a 47-49% WR until you get it properly equipped.

Playing a tank you enjoy is a great practice, and one I applaud.

The purpose of this thread is to address those that spend all their efforts blaming others for their lack of success when they are obviously the superior player.

Smell_My_Hand #16 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:24

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Since I don't primarily drive my T-50 anymore after nearly 900 battles in it, I'm working to raise my efficiency.  I'd often inflict very little damage with my T-50 throughout the course of a week (other than killing arty).

Sask_Outrider #17 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:25

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I was thinking about posting something along these lines earlier today.  IMHO win rate is the only stat that matters.  Granted Seal clubbing will get you a better win rate but the arguement that platooning gets you a better win rate is wrong.

If two bad players platoon they will actually reduce their win rate because they collectively concentrate the bad in their own team.  For platooning to increase your win rate you had to be good to start with and that way you are concentrating the "good" on your team.

Make sense.

GrimJahk #18 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:31

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View PostSmell_My_Hand, on Sep 30 2013 - 22:24, said:

Since I don't primarily drive my T-50 anymore after nearly 900 battles in it, I'm working to raise my efficiency.  I'd often inflict very little damage with my T-50 throughout the course of a week (other than killing arty).

Scouts are a different beast, but there are still things (like lighting the enemy and staying alive) that you can do to contribute to the win/loss of the team.

View PostSask_Outrider, on Sep 30 2013 - 22:25, said:

I was thinking about posting something along these lines earlier today.  IMHO win rate is the only stat that matters.  Granted Seal clubbing will get you a better win rate but the arguement that platooning gets you a better win rate is wrong.

If two bad players platoon they will actually reduce their win rate because they collectively concentrate the bad in their own team.  For platooning to increase your win rate you had to be good to start with and that way you are concentrating the "good" on your team.

Make sense.

I will toss this out... -IF- they have decent communications and work together... it can off-set some of the double negative that you put forth. If they both play solo in a platoon... then, yes.. the double negative compounds,

ez_money #19 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:36

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View PostGrimJahk, on Sep 30 2013 - 21:50, said:


Everyone has good and bad matches


True, and the 1 in every 100 matches that the  less than 40% WR and/or less that 500 Eff player pulls off a good game is the only time that they will help their team at all.

ShadowDancer27 #20 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:41

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Good post.  I think I have hit a point where I can tell in a game how much is on me after several games.

Everyone - even the studs have the games where the outcome (win or loss) was probable regardless of their performance.

In three games today with Hetzer (both losses).

In one the only kill I had was a suiscout that got next to another TD and I scraped him off for him.  I then went on to play a worthless game - my bad.  The front I was going to support but was left behind with the distraction succeeded but the other side failed and I was blown up by one of the 6 tanks capping and taking out arty.  Maybe a bad game didn't matter in the end result.

In another I had 4 kills my shot at one of the two remaining that was at 15% bounced.  I went down as last tank against 2 tanks I couldn't see.  I might have done any number of things differently which would have tilted the outcome.

I get into position and an ally medium moves in front of me just as my reticle closed.  He gets one shot.  Now the only way to get a shot off is to find another spot as the flank crumbles.  I feel like a window licker getting killed without taking a shot.  The other flank and middle all fail too.  A one second difference to get that shot off and I would have done some damage but the outcome was assured.





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