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Your WR, what it actually means, and why it matters. (reprise)

Setting the record straight

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Smell_My_Hand #21 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:42

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Guess I'm still a bit of a noob with 4000 battles, but I've not participated in Tank Companies, let alone platooned.  Do you think that participation in Tank Companies can help with win/rate and efficiency?

WarPaintSmitty #22 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:43

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View Postez_money, on Sep 30 2013 - 22:36, said:

True, and the 1 in every 100 matches that the  less than 40% WR and/or less that 500 Eff player pulls off a good game is the only time that they will help their team at all.

I always try to hope that THIS is their round. I mean everyone gets a mastery badge at some point, gotta keep the faith maybe this is the round they shine in.

DeadlyDays #23 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:44

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even in stock tanks I've never played beforehand I average easily over 50% win rates. There are only a small handful of tanks I have that are below 50%, and that's either because I don't have the patience to use them effectively or I played them so very long ago that I was less intimately familiar with all of the game mechanics.
Knowing how the game mechanics work will give you deep insight on how a tank works just by looking at the stats and the tank model itself, which will allow you to immediately start playing it to its strengths. And a player that has a good tactical grasp of this game will be able to place on average any of his tanks in a position to give his team the largest advantage possible given he is still only 1/15 of the team.

Edited by DeadlyDays, Sep 30 2013 - 22:48.


GrimJahk #24 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:45

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View PostShadowDancer27, on Sep 30 2013 - 22:41, said:

I feel like a window licker getting killed without taking a shot.


AMEN. Nothing upsets me more than contributing nothing to the match.

I can handle having a BAD game.. bouncing shots is one thing, but accomplishing NOTHING makes me nuts.

A_Silly_Muppet #25 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:46

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[content moderated]
~Moderation Team

ShadowDancer27 #26 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:47

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View PostDeadlyDays, on Sep 30 2013 - 22:44, said:

even in stock tanks I've never played beforehand I average easily over 50% win rates. There are only a small handful of tanks I have that are below 50%, and that's either because I don't have the patience to use them effectively or I played them so very long ago that I was less intimately familiar with all of the game mechanics.

I wish they did the WR as a running 3 month average so I could put my dreadful first xxx games with terrible ping, terrible frame rate, terrible driving, terrible... behind me.

GrimJahk #27 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 22:51

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View PostShadowDancer27, on Sep 30 2013 - 22:47, said:

I wish they did the WR as a running 3 month average so I could put my dreadful first xxx games with terrible ping, terrible frame rate, terrible driving, terrible... behind me.
at 1,300 battles, I wouldn't worry about it much. There are players that are trying to repair after 8k battles.

As long as you are improving, then your lower stats makes you the "Ace" in the hole. While your team may not have faith in you, your opponent will underestimate you.

3PzDiv #28 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 23:04

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View PostGrimJahk, on Sep 30 2013 - 22:31, said:

Scouts are a different beast, but there are still things (like lighting the enemy and staying alive) that you can do to contribute to the win/loss of the team.[...]
...or you can bait heavier enemy tanks toward the field of fire of your TDs, or heavier tanks. Especially, as they see a smaller tank or inexperienced player as easy prey.
  You can play cat-and-mouse with a heavy, if he is gullible or pig-headed enough to engage in that game. A lot of players seem to be distracted by harassing fire, even though the damage may be minimal, giving your team the chance to position against that enemy.
   That's why I like the WR. I accounts for the intangibles of the battle in the long-term average.

Edited by 3PzDiv, Sep 30 2013 - 23:05.


ADRR #29 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 23:08

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Oh to have my first 4k games reset. Fkn horrid!

BarnsBroadside #30 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 23:18

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I'm starting to agree with the philosophy that the only constant is you.  Since I started playing this game I have enjoyed a 50%+ win rate and attributed it entirely to luck.  I still "win" games where I did nothing useful, and I still "lose" games where I work my butt off contributing, and of course there are team imbalances both for and against me.

So what makes me a 53% instead of a 48%?  I would say that it is becauseI win 5% of games that would otherwise be lost.  While I'm far from being any unicum or professional carrier, I do have occational games where I really kick butt.  I would estimate about 1 in 20.  For the rest of the games, I am mostly just carrying my own weight, with a few better than average and a few worse than average games in the mix.

And some potatos still.  :angry:

Audie_L_Murphy #31 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 23:40

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View PostNukelavee45, on Sep 30 2013 - 22:06, said:

Such a meaningless statement, in a post filled with nothing of value.  Seriously, every tank is different in its play, so every tank has a learning curve.  The only way to excell on a given tank is to drive it over and over, and that means losing a lot, too.  But, practice makes perfect, right?

So, for some people, when they have 33% on one tank, they had 31% the day before, and tommorow it will be 35%.  So, they are doing nothing by hitting that button except improving, and striving for the point where they, too, can be arrogant twerps.

What about the games lost due to being stock while you research the tree?

Of course, I'm sticking mostly to my Stug and M4 lately, just because I enjoy them more, but while that helps my numbers, it isn't teaching me more about my Tiger II.

Your numbers are horrible & everytime you enter a battle the team that has to carry you is less likely to win.  Even your Stug III pulls a 47% win rate which is below average.  You are THREE times more likely to get killed than to get a kill.  Your enemy does FIVE times the damage that you do.  If you really think this stuff doesn't matter, keep playing the way that you are playing.

If you actually want to get better, try reading the manual, watching the videos provided on the website.  It is clear you don't even know the basics of WOT.  You need to learn if you want to improve.

Audie_L_Murphy #32 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 23:42

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View PostSmell_My_Hand, on Sep 30 2013 - 22:42, said:

Guess I'm still a bit of a noob with 4000 battles, but I've not participated in Tank Companies, let alone platooned.  Do you think that participation in Tank Companies can help with win/rate and efficiency?

Getting in GOOD tank companies will.  Getting in bad ones will not help your numbers.

DMViking #33 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 23:48

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My sub-par 46% win rate and I approve of this.  I know I have to be better.  I rarely blame my team (although that is the fault on occasion).

Orodruin #34 Posted Sep 30 2013 - 23:56

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View PostGrimJahk, on Sep 30 2013 - 22:45, said:

AMEN. Nothing upsets me more than contributing nothing to the match.

I can handle having a BAD game.. bouncing shots is one thing, but accomplishing NOTHING makes me nuts.
Accountability.  I totally appreciate anyone who wants and cares about playing well, and making a positive contribution.

Nukelavee45 #35 Posted Oct 01 2013 - 00:08

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View Postfffred, on Sep 30 2013 - 23:40, said:

Your numbers are horrible & everytime you enter a battle the team that has to carry you is less likely to win.  Even your Stug III pulls a 47% win rate which is below average.  You are THREE times more likely to get killed than to get a kill.  Your enemy does FIVE times the damage that you do.  If you really think this stuff doesn't matter, keep playing the way that you are playing.
If you actually want to get better, try reading the manual, watching the videos provided on the website.  It is clear you don't even know the basics of WOT.  You need to learn if you want to improve.
And here is where you prove my point for me.  Now, everybody says "rating doesn't matter until..3-5k games.  How many do I have?  How many matches on the stug, or the M4?  Or, as this is about trying to improve....what were my numbers last week?
They were lower.  So, I am improving.  To the point where my damage, on the stug, isn't 20% of what I take, it's sitting between 1.02 and .97.
So, my point being that simply saying WR says this about you is right - it only says something in the context of a lot of other factors.
So - to return to the OP, all that math is valueless because it doesn't actually help anybody with their play, it just encourages scapegoating new players.  And that, in turn, tends to make people not get better.  There is nothing in that math for a newb looking for things to learn to get better.

Quote

Everyone has good and bad matches:
The trick is, to make every match count, and always be focused on your contribution to your team. Understand the mechanics, learn the tactics, try to learn something from every match.
    Play at your skill level (rushing up the tiers is BAD.... m'kay?)
    Do damage
    Stay alive to do more damage
    Help the team win, don't expect them to carry you

Honestly, that part is important, and my apologies for not acknowledging that.

zlan #36 Posted Oct 01 2013 - 00:31

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Great post.

GrimJahk #37 Posted Oct 01 2013 - 00:32

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View PostNukelavee45, on Oct 01 2013 - 00:08, said:

And here is where you prove my point for me.  Now, everybody says "rating doesn't matter until..3-5k games.  How many do I have?  How many matches on the stug, or the M4?  Or, as this is about trying to improve....what were my numbers last week?
They were lower.  So, I am improving.  To the point where my damage, on the stug, isn't 20% of what I take, it's sitting between 1.02 and .97.

To the first part; I'll only comment with my opinion.

Stats matter from the moment your goal is to improve, grow, and compete. Most players do not KNOW they fit in that category until 3-5k games. Once stats matter to you, your goal is to find out WHY they are not improving at a rate others suggest they should be.

While I'm certain you are improving, there are some VERY capable players giving you free advice to help you improve faster, and (it seems) you just want to defend your current training method. So be it.

Quote


So, my point being that simply saying WR says this about you is right - it only says something in the context of a lot of other factors.
Agreed, as with all stats

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So - to return to the OP, all that math is valueless because it doesn't actually help anybody with their play, it just encourages scapegoating new players.  And that, in turn, tends to make people not get better.  There is nothing in that math for a newb looking for things to learn to get better.

Again you miss the purpose of the thread...

I do not present math to improve the players skill, I present math as a foundation towards helping the player understand why their success or failure in this game is determined by their willingness to take responsibility for their own efforts, or lack thereof.




Quote



Honestly, that part is important, and my apologies for not acknowledging that.

Thank you. No worries ;-)

Jayedubicus #38 Posted Oct 01 2013 - 02:57

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View PostGrimJahk, on Oct 01 2013 - 00:32, said:

Again you miss the purpose of the thread...

I have only a fraction of the games played that many of those who posted here have yet I am having a hard time understanding the purpose of this thread. I don't see how this is helpful to new players. I know I want to win more and even get better at the game because I really enjoy playing it. I also realized that even though I have a couple of tier V tanks now, I am playing outside my level so to speak so I've gone back to some of my lower tier's to continue improving myself.

GrimJahk #39 Posted Oct 01 2013 - 03:11

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View Postjsnwldrp7423, on Oct 01 2013 - 02:57, said:

I have only a fraction of the games played that many of those who posted here have yet I am having a hard time understanding the purpose of this thread. I don't see how this is helpful to new players. I know I want to win more and even get better at the game because I really enjoy playing it. I also realized that even though I have a couple of tier V tanks now, I am playing outside my level so to speak so I've gone back to some of my lower tier's to continue improving myself.
Then you understand perfectly.

You have taken the burden on to yourself to improve.

You realized when you were not contributing enough to make a positive difference and went back to learn.

+1 for you.

Trailer_Tank_Boy #40 Posted Oct 01 2013 - 04:41

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Global WR is a fail metric.

I think performance should be evaluated PER tank.  Period.  End of story and good bye.





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