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Your WR, what it actually means, and why it matters. (reprise)

Setting the record straight

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SumiXam #341 Posted Mar 04 2014 - 23:58

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View PostZaikadi, on Mar 04 2014 - 16:28, said:

 It's not very difficult to top 1000 points of damage per game in a KV1S with the top gun. Try it in a Tier II light.

 

Yet how many players driving a KV-1S do you see regularly posting up 1k+ in damage? Putting up 1k damage in a Tier 2 tank is comparable to doing much more than that in Tier 6. The HP pools and firepower are different and it's hardly an apples to apples comparison. 



GrimJahk #342 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 15:44

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View PostZaikadi, on Mar 04 2014 - 13:43, said:

I am spoofing _Tsavo_'s list which I found mildly distasteful because it breaks down human beings into ratings data.

 

The game is relatively trivial in the real world of family and friendship, work, and schooling. 

 These are two separate issues here. 

 

1) Well buttercup, suck it up. This game has one goal: Win the match. There are players that take that seriously and players that don't. The ones that take it seriously, take the stats seriously as well, while the others do not… Correlation? In the context of the game… when you hit battle… every player in the match that takes this seriously is passing judgement on the other players, either by the Overall WR or the WR in the tank they are in. This is a given… no amount of winging here in the forums will ever change that.  The unfortunate reality is that _Tsavo_ is right. in those 30 seconds before the start, you are looked at, and the experienced player will come to EXACTLY those same conclusions. Whether you are snarky here or not. If you are able to evolve your skills, your WR will grow as your skills do. If you only have an effect on one game in 15 they will not.

 

2) No one said otherwise… But if you are in the game, the GAME is what you should be focused on… or log out. When the feces hits the air cavitation device IRL… I get it… you drop the match and deal with it. BUT, If these interruptions happen EVERY GAME… Play something else where you can hit pause… The real problem is that players log in, hit battle, suck hard to get a gallon of donkey milk… then "CLAIM" I had an emergency I'm back now… after sitting behind a bush at the back for the first 10 minutes of the match… I was dropped into back to back matches with the SAME moron that pulled this twice...

 

Sorry I'm in "Angry mode" here.. but take some responsibility for your own efforts…  Don't be focused on that great game you had yesterday, focus on what you can do to help your team win THIS game. The key here is consistency. Consistently contribute to your team's effort and you WILL win more.

 

 



scharnhorst310 #343 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 16:10

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Lol Grim we're dealing with people who believe they can't be accountable for their own actions, and that all their previous actions (stats) mean nothing... Wow. To me the best part of all this is when they get berated in battle and they come to the forums crying about the big meanies out there. It is hilarious that they think they can play like worthless imbeciles constantly AND that people should cater to their feelings and values. 

 

Play as worthless as you want, that is your right if you so choose; the consequence is that others out there will call you out on it from time to time. 


Edited by scharnhorst310, Mar 05 2014 - 16:11.


Nukelavee45 #344 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 16:25

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View Postscharnhorst310, on Mar 05 2014 - 16:10, said:

Lol Grim we're dealing with people who believe they can't be accountable for their own actions, and that all their previous actions (stats) mean nothing... Wow. To me the best part of all this is when they get berated in battle and they come to the forums crying about the big meanies out there. It is hilarious that they think they can play like worthless imbeciles constantly AND that people should cater to their feelings and values. 

 

Play as worthless as you want, that is your right if you so choose; the consequence is that others out there will call you out on it from time to time. 


Oh, hey, another groundless assumption from Scharn, put in about as offensive of terms as he can manage.

 

Grim - as much as you like to think this game should only be for the good players, life isn't like that.  WG doesn't even want it.  So, again, if you want the player base to improve, you need to be consistent as to how you handle them.  Be responsible for your actions and responses.  The whole "tough love" style of dealing with players doesn't work. 

 

I don't need to tell you this, everybody knows you actually do care for more than your own experience, and do a lot of work to try and help.



GrimJahk #345 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 17:08

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View PostNukelavee45, on Mar 05 2014 - 07:25, said:

Grim - as much as you like to think this game should only be for the good players, life isn't like that.  WG doesn't even want it.  So, again, if you want the player base to improve, you need to be consistent as to how you handle them.  Be responsible for your actions and responses.  The whole "tough love" style of dealing with players doesn't work. 

 

 

 

 

Of all players, you should know me better than this… I do not EVER take the "be elite or go home" stance…

 

My position, as it has always been, is: "Take responsibility for your own actions" 

 

The unfortunate reality is, some of those that refuse to do so are carrying that "Coddle me because momma says I'm a special flower" into the game FROM REAL LIFE. They are the first to start screaming HAX and other garbage because they are obviously too good at the game and WG has it set to keep them down...

 

The difference to me… a 47% player the KNOWS; that MM is rigged against him, he can't win because his teams suck, other players have to cheat in order to beat him... is a TERRIBAD player… a 41% player that KNOWS; he has much to learn is a bad player… with potential.

 

The difference is clear, one blames others, one takes responsibility on himself.

 

But either way the point of this thread "YOU" are the only constant in the equation of your WR, take ownership of that and it will improve.

 



Ban_All_Boomers #346 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 17:30

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I find the game more fun by carrying the team I don't see why anyone wouldn't strive for this. I feel like a scumbag when being carried.

Grimjahk also one of the more knowledgeable players out there. :smile:



GrimJahk #347 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 17:43

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View PostImperiator, on Mar 05 2014 - 08:30, said:

1) I find the game more fun by carrying the team I don't see why anyone wouldn't strive for this. I feel like a scumbag when being carried.

 

2) Grimjahk also one of the more knowledgeable players out there. 

 

1) agree completely

 

2) Please do not confuse passion for knowledge. I have a passion for the game, so I try to give back by helping where I can. But I can't tell you: the pen of any given gun, the top speed and gun depression of "that" tank, or the armor values of the next vehicle I see… (other than that honda outside the window)

 

 

 



Nukelavee45 #348 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 19:48

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Quote

1) Well buttercup, suck it up. This game has one goal: Win the match. There are players that take that seriously and players that don't. The ones that take it seriously, take the stats seriously as well, while the others do not… Correlation?

Quote

Of all players, you should know me better than this… I do not EVER take the "be elite or go home" stance…

 

Well, it sounds like a conflict to me between those two statements.  But, yes, you generally don't say things like that, which is why I pointed it out.  Oh, correlation, or causation?

 

The point is, presented with your usual posts, vs Scharn's, yours are far more likely to be accepted and acted upon. 

 



TheDirty11 #349 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 20:09

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Oh crap.  Posted in the wrong thread.

 

NVM


Edited by TheDirty11, Mar 05 2014 - 20:13.


GrimJahk #350 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 20:20

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View PostNukelavee45, on Mar 05 2014 - 10:48, said:

 

1) Well buttercup, suck it up. This game has one goal: Win the match. There are players that take that seriously and players that don't. The ones that take it seriously, take the stats seriously as well, while the others do not… Correlation?

 

Of all players, you should know me better than this… I do not EVER take the "be elite or go home" stance…

 

Well, it sounds like a conflict to me between those two statements.  But, yes, you generally don't say things like that, which is why I pointed it out.  Oh, correlation, or causation?

 

The point is, presented with your usual posts, vs Scharn's, yours are far more likely to be accepted and acted upon. 

 

Not in the slightest. Player "A" came here and began with the mantra: "I'm better than my stats show, therefore, stats mean nothing"… the discussion devolved from there…  Player "B" came in and gave a breakdown of how experienced players react to the WR of individual players and their predictable performances… Player "A" decided to take offense at said opinion because: " I found mildly distasteful because it breaks down human beings into ratings data."  This was the source of my "Buttercup" reply. In a game where all things "Statistics" are micro inspected, statistics are the only reliable information that a player has to make better decisions… 

 

For "average" players, they are too busy trying to survive and do damage, they simply have not developed the automatic instincts yet… The experienced/good player can focus on situational awareness, knowing what flank is weak, where they are needed, WHEN to flex and be the support to a bad situation. The great players don't even think about that, they are calculating the pen of their guns and the angled armor thickness of the tanks they are looking at. They are knowing what the pen is of the guns pointing at them and their reload times… Those are the players that in the first 30 seconds already know what EACH member of each team is likely to do… Based entirely on the historical performance of every player in the match...

 

At 10k games played… I can HONESTLY say I am happy when a player plays above their history… that is a sign of improvement, BUT I am never surprised when they do exactly as I predicted… A scout with 400 total games and a 41% WR… He'll be dead in the first 30 sec… yup.. scout down… A 45%er complaining about another loser team… check the roster… yup, he's the only weak link on a good team… Bet he charges, dies, and rages… yup… another one on the ignore list… 

 



EricB1996 #351 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 20:46

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What specific stats does XVM use to calculate chance of victory?

Nukelavee45 #352 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 20:48

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Grim, I have to admit...I've totally lost track of who said what and why in this topic.

 

Quote

This was the source of my "Buttercup" reply. In a game where all things "Statistics" are micro inspected, statistics are the only reliable information that a player has to make better decisions…

 

I dunno about that, exactly.  I mean, I don't need to watch my stats like a hawk to know how I'm doing, in general. (Although there are always those games where I did far better or worse, according to stats, than it felt during the game).  I will agree that, as things stand, they are the only reliable info you can use to make a call on me, in a game.

 

As for the next point, again, I agree on the automatic part entirely, except I'd say its that the best players don't lose that edge during high pressure fights, whereas It takes far less pressure to to reduce players at my level to "what do i do, what do i do?!" playing.

 

I'll admit, I prejudge in matches, usually based on chatitude.  Trashtalking your own team is never a good sign, lol.



GrimJahk #353 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 21:15

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View PostEricB1996, on Mar 05 2014 - 11:46, said:

What specific stats does XVM use to calculate chance of victory?

IMO Do not even have that enabled… For too many players, it affects how they play.



EricB1996 #354 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 21:20

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View PostGrimJahk, on Mar 05 2014 - 15:15, said:

IMO Do not even have that enabled… For too many players, it affects how they play.

 

I was wondering about that since I just enabled it lately. It seems there are far more 30'something or less chance victories going the way of the lower chance team and by large margins and I have been in on both sides. It must be common because I see comments on the 60's%+ chance like "if you stay alive we MIGHT win"

 


Edited by EricB1996, Mar 05 2014 - 21:21.


GrimJahk #355 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 21:31

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View PostNukelavee45, on Mar 05 2014 - 11:48, said:

Grim, I have to admit...I've totally lost track of who said what and why in this topic.

 

 

This was the source of my "Buttercup" reply. In a game where all things "Statistics" are micro inspected, statistics are the only reliable information that a player has to make better decisions…

 

I dunno about that, exactly.  I mean, I don't need to watch my stats like a hawk to know how I'm doing, in general. (Although there are always those games where I did far better or worse, according to stats, than it felt during the game).  I will agree that, as things stand, they are the only reliable info you can use to make a call on me, in a game.

 

As for the next point, again, I agree on the automatic part entirely, except I'd say its that the best players don't lose that edge during high pressure fights, whereas It takes far less pressure to to reduce players at my level to "what do i do, what do i do?!" playing.

 

I'll admit, I prejudge in matches, usually based on chatitude.  Trashtalking your own team is never a good sign, lol.

 

Again we are on the same page, just differentiating on verbiage.  In most games of competitive nature, every player that is … focused on the competition and winning, will search out even the tiniest advantage they can squeak out. The vast majority of that is through analysis of the available facts… Which gear, which weapon, what skills… those are all things that the CAN control. MOST players (myself included…) have difficulty getting into the minutia of details that our Purple brethren can spout off at will… However we ALL have the ability to make decisions on how we play… Some players have better habits than others on this thought process, but mostly they are making EDUCATED predictions about how the battle will flow and then injecting their efforts into the place where they will have the greatest impact.  (OK I'm starting to foam at the mouth… /rant off)

 

My points are…

  1. Not all players play the game the same for the same reason
  2. Better players use information differently 
  3. The best players make decisions with ALL available information

 

Prejudging is different that Expectations

 

I don't see a 39% player and start off in chat "Uninstall noob" I just shake my head and expect nothing… Sometimes I am pleasantly surprised.

 

Great observation on cause and effect of pressure… that is also a factor of experience… I freak out FAR less after 10k games than I did after 2K...

 

 



Rufustb #356 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 21:49

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View PostEricB1996, on Mar 05 2014 - 13:46, said:

What specific stats does XVM use to calculate chance of victory?

 

QuickyBaby talked a bit about this during one of his live feeds, which is what I am basing this information on. It uses player ratings, wr and tier.  It doesn't take into account the particular tank or any other softstats.  One uni player at the bottom of the MM or in a crap tank can throw the whole thing off.  

 

You are better off just looking at the individual line ups.  My experience is, it doesn't matter what the chance is if your top 4 tanks are baddies.



Nukelavee45 #357 Posted Mar 06 2014 - 00:07

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Is your avatar Omar, from Rock and Rule?

Killerpriest #358 Posted Mar 07 2014 - 18:15

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http://forum.worldof...rpriest#topmost

 

Add this to your OP Grim, so Noobs can see that even guys who arent unicums agree that W/R has a purpose.



GrimJahk #359 Posted Mar 07 2014 - 20:36

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View PostKillerpriest, on Mar 07 2014 - 09:15, said:

http://forum.worldof...rpriest#topmost

 

Add this to your OP Grim, so Noobs can see that even guys who arent unicums agree that W/R has a purpose.

 

Just to give some context: When I originally wrote this I was a 52-53% player, with under 2k battles under my belt.







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