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German scouts/Luchs


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CallMeBoog #1 Posted Oct 04 2013 - 06:20

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So I was wondering what everybody thinks of the German scout line?  I bought the Pz-1c as a fun little tank for in-between games and lower tier platoons, but soon found I had enough XP for the Luchs.  Stock, the Luchs was awful, but I now love it.  The traverse is incredible (turret traverse is bogus though) and the gun is pretty good (long reload though, but great penetration.). What are the opinions on the rest of the German scouts? I'm not to impressed with their speed, but the agility is good.  Thoughts on them?

Tazilon #2 Posted Oct 04 2013 - 08:00

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View PostCallMeBoog, on Oct 04 2013 - 06:20, said:

So I was wondering what everybody thinks of the German scout line?  I bought the Pz-1c as a fun little tank for in-between games and lower tier platoons, but soon found I had enough XP for the Luchs.  Stock, the Luchs was awful, but I now love it.  The traverse is incredible (turret traverse is bogus though) and the gun is pretty good (long reload though, but great penetration.). What are the opinions on the rest of the German scouts? I'm not to impressed with their speed, but the agility is good.  Thoughts on them?

The next 3 have a huge fan base of people who hate them and a smaller fan base of people who learned how to play them and love them.

Psykmoe #3 Posted Oct 04 2013 - 11:57

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I'm a big fan of the Leopard myself. It's a great tank for some relaxing scouting since it moves well and has solid view range but also gets some lower tier games mixed in. The 3cm autocannon is still pretty good (although the dpm is terrible, it does have 60 extra damage per burst and better accuracy compared to Luchs), though whenever they put a sale on premium ammo, I just buy a bunch of that and run the 5cm with gold. to get some side armor damage in and have better dpm.
The 3cm is the more amusing gun, but both options kind of show their age on a tier5 platform.
I also have the scout Panther, which has a horrifying stock grind, but I free xp'd most of it and I actually kind of like it. I kind of miss the 165 damage Konisch, with the current damage and rof it's just the 7.5cm L70 with 7 more pen. Lost a bit of character, that gun has. Works, though.
Also ramming ELCs or AMX lights in a 40 ton tank will never not be funny.
Anyway. Love the Leopard, like the Scout Panther pretty well, was never emotionally invested enough in the VK2801 to keep it and form an opinion on the tier6 version. Had enough xp saved on it to unlock tier7 after the change.
Also, if you play the Leopard, do note that it has 10 degrees gun depression over the sides of the tank, but bad gun depression down front. Just a thing to keep in mind.

Edited by Psykmoe, Oct 04 2013 - 12:00.


Canyon_Runner #4 Posted Oct 04 2013 - 16:05

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Love the Luchs, probably my favorite scout. Quick, small and deals surprising burst damage with the 3cm. Capable of passive or active scouting in equal ability, though it's weak radio is a problem. A skirmisher's dream; shoot and scoot tactics are easy and fun with it. Small and agile enough to bush hop to the enemy's rear lines if you're smart and a little patient, giving you a chance to raid the arty party.
Leopard is like the Luchs but a little bigger and the 3cm has a different firing pattern (4 shots of 3 rounds instead of 5 shots of 2 rounds). Same style of play, albeit a little tougher due to size, slower traverse, lower top speed and enemies having better view ranges at Tier IX.
VK 28.01 is a different animal altogether. It requires a lot more patience and good timing; a single mistake can and will get you blown across the nearest quarter mile of map. Not as fast nor as agile as it's predecessors. Derp cannon will reliably track most tanks you face but might take more than one shot (thankfully the reload is pretty swift), so work in tandem with teammates to harass and delay enemies.
Haven't played the AufPanther yet. Don't know if I'm going to or not. From what I've seen, it's a completely different beast too; less a scout, more a sniper. Konisch will wear down enemies over time, but it's big body probably makes it hard to hide.

Tazilon #5 Posted Oct 04 2013 - 21:52

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View PostCanyon_Runner, on Oct 04 2013 - 16:05, said:

Love the Luchs, probably my favorite scout. Quick, small and deals surprising burst damage with the 3cm. Capable of passive or active scouting in equal ability, though it's weak radio is a problem. A skirmisher's dream; shoot and scoot tactics are easy and fun with it. Small and agile enough to bush hop to the enemy's rear lines if you're smart and a little patient, giving you a chance to raid the arty party.
Leopard is like the Luchs but a little bigger and the 3cm has a different firing pattern (4 shots of 3 rounds instead of 5 shots of 2 rounds). Same style of play, albeit a little tougher due to size, slower traverse, lower top speed and enemies having better view ranges at Tier IX.
VK 28.01 is a different animal altogether. It requires a lot more patience and good timing; a single mistake can and will get you blown across the nearest quarter mile of map. Not as fast nor as agile as it's predecessors. Derp cannon will reliably track most tanks you face but might take more than one shot (thankfully the reload is pretty swift), so work in tandem with teammates to harass and delay enemies.
Haven't played the AufPanther yet. Don't know if I'm going to or not. From what I've seen, it's a completely different beast too; less a scout, more a sniper. Konisch will wear down enemies over time, but it's big body probably makes it hard to hide.
TOP SPEED:
Luchs:  60 km/h
Leopard 60 km/h
VK 28.01: 60 km/h
What am I missing?

Edited by Tazilon, Oct 06 2013 - 05:15.


Itsnoteasyfindinganame #6 Posted Oct 04 2013 - 22:01

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View PostTazilon, on Oct 04 2013 - 21:52, said:

TOP SPEED:
Luchs:  60 km/h
Leopard 60 km/h
VK 28/01: 60 km/h
What am I missing?

Acceleratioin maybe? I find the Leopard slower than the Luchs and I play both right now. It could also be that it sees some faster mediums so active scouting is trickier. I usually try to active scout by keeping my speed high before and during the time I am a potential target and then dropping back into a safe area to build up speed again but I don't active scout with the Leopard as much as I do with the Luchs.

Tazilon #7 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 03:17

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View PostItsnoteasyfindinganame, on Oct 04 2013 - 22:01, said:

Acceleratioin maybe? I find the Leopard slower than the Luchs and I play both right now. It could also be that it sees some faster mediums so active scouting is trickier. I usually try to active scout by keeping my speed high before and during the time I am a potential target and then dropping back into a safe area to build up speed again but I don't active scout with the Leopard as much as I do with the Luchs.

But acceleration does not affect top speed.

Toasted_Rofls #8 Posted Oct 05 2013 - 03:29

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German scout line works as follows:

PZ 1C: Hilarious. Alternates between being horribly OP and horribly useless depending on the matchmaking. Always fun.

Luchs: Best tier 4 tank, a fantastic scouting vehicle. Gets scout matchmaking however, so watch out, it can be a bit tricky to use in higher tier battles, but it's still effective.

Leopard: Mediocre scout tank. It used to be the best a long time ago, back when there where only three tier 4 scouts. Now it's at tier 5, but it's still usable. It's also incredibly good looking, always a plus.

VK 2801: A formally fun tank that is now terrible. Probably the worst tier 6 tank in the game currently. I do not recommend playing it if you can, it's just bad. It's fat, no faster than many of its peers, and has awful firepower.

AwfulPanther: Despite what the name may suggest, this thing is at least somewhat passable. Unlike the VK 2801, this tank actually has a real gun of actual value, but it's even fatter than the VK. Use it as a fast combat support tank.

Why do you want to go down the German scout line to begin with? If it's to play enjoyable tanks, stop at the Luchs, everything after it is a disappointment. If you want to unlock the Indien Panzer, then I can kind of understand. Kind of. The AwfulPanther is probably going to be a better grind than the VK 3002 (D), however, the VK 2801 is an awful tank, while the VK 3001 (D) is just a standard tier 6 medium, so it's not like going down the light tank line will protect you from playing any bad tanks. The Leopard will not be a fun grind either.

Honestly, there's no reason to go any farther down the German light tank line than the Luchs. You can fire gold out of the VK 3002 to make it playable, but no amount of gold can fix the VK 2801's flaws. The Leopard's going to be a long grind, while the Panzer III/IV is a zippy tier 5 medium that looks like fun to play. If you want the Indien Panzer, just play the mediums. And if you just want fun tanks... then once again, stop at the Luchs.

Tazilon #9 Posted Oct 06 2013 - 05:38

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Here is my take on the German Scout line:
Luchs:  probably the Scout best suited for Active Scouting in the current game - but it still isn't great at it.  Good in same tier or near tier matches, struggles horribly in higher tier matches.  It can passive scout in high tier matches but struggles to contribute at all if you don't get a decent passive scouting map.  The gun is good for close up engagements but highly inaccurate at long range.  The Pz38nA is a better overall Tier IV Scout - but it isn't in the Scout line on the tech tree.
VK 16.02 Leopard:  very good passive scout.  Like the Luchs, it has gun issues. Sporting 4 3 round bursts per clip instead of the 5 2 rounders used on the Luchs, it struggles to hit targets at anything longer than short range.   Still, it is fairly agile and can out maneuver many tanks it faces, allowing it to flank and kill if it can get in close.  The Leopard is also a good rammer.
VK 28.01 Cougar:  It can't carry teams with the ease it used to, however, it is an extremely capable tank.  A good passive scout and a highly under-rated sniper, it has the ability to flank and kill, making it a highly valuable asset late in the game.  Additionally, its 105 can eat arty alive, making it the premier Arty Hunting scout in the game.  Like the Leopard, it is a good rammer.  It is also an extremely capable Ant-scout.
Auf Panther:  One of the most under-rated tanks in the game.  Outstanding anti-scout and excellent rammer.  It is a capable passive scout but fails as a active scout due to its size.  It is also an outstanding sniper, a skill which pairs nicely with its passive scouting ability.  It has very good agility for its sized and is a good flanker.
Overall, the German Scout line presents a string of 4 rather quirky Scouts in a row.  If you take the time to learn each of the 4 scouts and play according to their unique combinations of ability and limitation, they are all fun to play and can contribute to your teams' success.

Edited by Tazilon, Oct 06 2013 - 05:41.


Romanista77 #10 Posted Oct 06 2013 - 14:34

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I like the Luchs a lot.
It's maneuverable, fast, and fun to drive.
With binoculars, you can often a least contribute spotting in higher tier matches.

Sadly, unless you're in a low tier match; you're not likely to carry a bad team with it.

For whatever reason my win rate is much better in my leopard. I pretty much drive them the same. Except you can often ram other tanks during your long reload with the leopard (makes for a good 1-2 punch).


Canyon_Runner #11 Posted Oct 07 2013 - 05:36

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View PostTazilon, on Oct 04 2013 - 21:52, said:

TOP SPEED:
Luchs:  60 km/h
Leopard 60 km/h
VK 28.01: 60 km/h
What am I missing?
Maintaining that speed despite terrain changes or in making course corrections. Luchs is great, Leopard is passable, VK28 suffers.

Tazilon #12 Posted Oct 07 2013 - 07:16

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View PostCanyon_Runner, on Oct 07 2013 - 05:36, said:

Maintaining that speed despite terrain changes or in making course corrections. Luchs is great, Leopard is passable, VK28 suffers.
I don't seem to have that problem.  It doesn't accelerate as fast but once at speed it stays there fairly easily unless you maintain hard turns for a bit.

Edited by Tazilon, Oct 07 2013 - 07:18.


Personality #13 Posted Oct 07 2013 - 09:48

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luchs turns like crazy
leo turns slower, but still scout-worthy
vk2801 turning is pretty bad

^ i think thats what he meant by mobility, not just the top speed

Tazilon #14 Posted Oct 07 2013 - 14:34

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View PostPersonality, on Oct 07 2013 - 09:48, said:

luchs turns like crazy
leo turns slower, but still scout-worthy
vk2801 turning is pretty bad

^ i think thats what he meant by mobility, not just the top speed

"lower top speed"  seems pretty straight forward to me

Canyon_Runner #15 Posted Oct 07 2013 - 16:17

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View PostTazilon, on Oct 07 2013 - 07:16, said:

I don't seem to have that problem.  It doesn't accelerate as fast but once at speed it stays there fairly easily unless you maintain hard turns for a bit.
Your driver has Clutch Braking and Off Road Driving, I imagine? I'm still getting camo up to 100% on mine.

View PostTazilon, on Oct 07 2013 - 14:34, said:

"lower top speed"  seems pretty straight forward to me
My mistake. Drop it now?

GollumsFish #16 Posted Oct 07 2013 - 19:57

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I've driven the Pz1C, the Leopard, and the VK2801. I've also driven the M5 Stuart, the Chaffee, and the T21. And the ELC and AMX 12t.

Personally, I find the VK2801 the most powerful of the lot of them based on my current playstyle. So I haven't really been seeing this "nerf" everyone keeps whining about. I drove the VK2801 before and after the nerf. I didn't see an awful lot of difference, to be honest. Just a bit slower in accelerating and backing quickly behind buildings and such, that was all I noticed. The gun is one of the best guns I play with - I even like it better than the Chaffee's.

Tazilon #17 Posted Oct 07 2013 - 22:24

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View PostCanyon_Runner, on Oct 07 2013 - 16:17, said:

Your driver has Clutch Braking and Off Road Driving, I imagine? I'm still getting camo up to 100% on mine.


My mistake. Drop it now?

It is more how I drive than crew skills.  Many crew skills/perks provide boosts so minor you can't tell if you have them active or not.

ShadowDancer27 #18 Posted Oct 09 2013 - 15:17

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I play the Luchs active  - W key hammered down for minutes at a time in some games.  When in Tier 8 battles I alternate a little more and park while an enemy is cleared out of an area.  At the start I see it there appear to be MT's headed to a flank.  If so I run ahead of them and do a sweep that often nets a quick dead scout.  Once I light a target on that flank and the MT's are engaged I will hide generally - odds are the lit tank isn't alone.  As long as the higher tier tougher tanks stay engaged I will wait.  If my hiding place is close and I can peek out while the enemy gun is pointed away I will shoot at track sprockets or weakspots if they are lower tier.  Once the enemy is dead I sweep out ahead of my teammates again.  If there is another flank reasonably close I might head over there instead of hiding but usually that is a lot of back line driving without much payoff.  When it goes well I often get the arty kills if the flank I support is able to keep rolling.  It is really rewarding  - feels like a well executed fast break - when it comes together.

The key rule for Lower tier scouts in high tier games is to play it safe when your team has targets to shoot at and take reasonable risk when they need to find the enemy again to advance.

For equipment I have Paint, suspension, spall liner, optics.

I put the spall liner on for when I anti-scout since it reduces a lot of damage from another autoloader or if I ram them my can is a shot short of killing them.  Perhaps a vents would have been better.  I got tired of being one shot short in a HP exchange with other Luchs so I gave myself a little armor boost.

For crew I have camo and working on smooth ride for driver.